Need to verify if tune file I downloaded is 4L80E

[Mean Green Z28]

So I've been having so many issues with the transmission swap and have pretty much decided to not run a conversion harness (using a 4L60E tune) to run my 4L80E and actually run a native 4L80E tune. I will be using the Frost Harness I have but it'll be stripped of both relays. It will be used to only swap the PWM pin over and also have the PRNDL switch harness integrated to it as 2009 didn't have an external PRDNL switch). I have already wired in the ISS to the Trans connector harness (again, 2009 had a ISS). I have pretty much checked schematics for both harnesses and they are landed inthe same location on the TCM so everything should be wired correctly except for one wire on the TCM that needs to be moved from location 45 to 26 (ISS Low Reference). I just need to know for certain that the TCM is going to swap the B-solenoid output when the new tune is flashed.

I've found two tunes online and one of them has the same operating system as mine. I've uploaded mine, and the two tunes I found. Can someone verify which of the two 2007 or the 2009 G3500 tune on the T42 controller would work hand in hand with my E38 ECM?

My 2009 E38 ECM ... OS 12630501, CAL 12630500
My 2009 T42 TCM ... OS 24243356, CAL 24240449

2009 G3500 T42 TCM ... OS 24243356, CAL 24235753

2007 T42 TCM ... OS 24235341, CAL 24230461

Currently, even though I had a feeling it wouldnt work, I wired the ISS in and set the 4L60E tune to YES for that option as it was originally ... well it'll work fine for a little and then set a code before the TCC starts turning on and then off within a second, over and over (when it's in range per tables). I'm assuming the ISS pulse count is different between the 4L60E and 4L80E .. not sure of the code 'cos I didnt have a scanner on my way home from the shop and the only thing I could do was hit clear codes on my bluetooth OBD-II adapter ... it'll run fine for a bit and then trip the trans code again before acting weird.


Using this as a guide ... https://sites.google.com/site/sloppywiki/everything-ls/4l80e-nnbs-t42-swap

[Mean Green Z28]

Well the 2009 tune seemed to work best. 2007 tune didn't have the shifter location on the dash; so assuming it didn't speak to the ECM.

The first issue after just swapping a few wires and loading tune was that it was always commanding 2nd gear as if it was in limp home mode. Then did a big more digging and found that the 3 transmission range pressure switch wires were not on the trans harness; it was on the modified/simplified/stripped Frost harness so I assumed it was on the trans harness too ... Never assume!

So, Had to run 3 wires for transmission pressure switch signal A B C and pin them in at the T42 connector and Trans plug. Not sure if I did it all right in a rush; orsomething else is the issue, but seems like Solenoid A may not be working (burned it while troubleshooting maybe?).

Now, Scanner goes through the sequence from 1st to 3rd as expected and the solenoid status matches that of the 4L80E ... but I only feel we only take off on 2nd and feel the shift from 2nd (off/off) to 3rd (off/on) but 4th is never requested occurs so there's something wrong. It also probably takes off in 2nd even though 1st is requested. Never felt the shift from 1 (on/off) to two (off/off) ... so a burned up A solenoid does make sense. Unless I have to move that pin on the TCM too. Will have to compare harnesses.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Mean Green Z28]

Here's the pinout from the 2009 G3500 Van ... I added transmission pressure switch signals a b and c to the empty slots and moved 45 to 26.

http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5877bb414c17b/Document%20ID_%202316732.pdf


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Chevy366]

Thanks for sharing, may help someone else.

[Mean Green Z28]

Thanks for sharing, may help someone else.
Yeah everything I do seems to need a lot of learning and troubleshooting as there's not much found for my year when doing a search. Either that or nodoby has really chronicled these issues.

Crazy cos it's a popular swap and it works well for other years, but the 2009 is one of those wierd years where the 4L60E had the ISS and PRNDL switch all internal ... so I've had to add the PRNDL harness and ISS as in the 4L80E ... the reason I decided to stick with a stripped Frost Harness to just make that easier and avoid any changes to the factory wiring .. looks like I did have to atleast add 3 wires. Haha

20619

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[BLK02WS6]

Shoulda just got a 2010 with a 6 speed :pokey:

[Mean Green Z28]

Shoulda just got a 2010 with a 6 speed :pokey:
Hmmm return to N/A and buy a newer one with 4 big doors and then put turbo on it?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[joecar]

Here's the pinout from the 2009 G3500 Van ... I added transmission pressure switch signals a b and c to the empty slots and moved 45 to 26.

Document%20ID_%202316732.pdf (http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5877bb414c17b/Document%20ID_%202316732.pdf)


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using TapatalkDo you also have the TCM wiring diagram that goes with that, I want to see if they agree.

[joecar]

Well the 2009 tune seemed to work best. 2007 tune didn't have the shifter location on the dash; so assuming it didn't speak to the ECM.

The first issue after just swapping a few wires and loading tune was that it was always commanding 2nd gear as if it was in limp home mode. Then did a big more digging and found that the 3 transmission range pressure switch wires were not on the trans harness; it was on the modified/simplified/stripped Frost harness so I assumed it was on the trans harness too ... Never assume!

So, Had to run 3 wires for transmission pressure switch signal A B C and pin them in at the T42 connector and Trans plug. Not sure if I did it all right in a rush; orsomething else is the issue, but seems like Solenoid A may not be working (burned it while troubleshooting maybe?).

Now, Scanner goes through the sequence from 1st to 3rd as expected and the solenoid status matches that of the 4L80E ... but I only feel we only take off on 2nd and feel the shift from 2nd (off/off) to 3rd (off/on) but 4th is never requested occurs so there's something wrong. It also probably takes off in 2nd even though 1st is requested. Never felt the shift from 1 (on/off) to two (off/off) ... so a burned up A solenoid does make sense. Unless I have to move that pin on the TCM too. Will have to compare harnesses.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using TapatalkUsing a voltmeter, measure the voltage to the solenoid in question...

when it is on you should see the voltage drop to ground (or close to it), when it is off the voltage should go back up to battery voltage... verify this first to eliminate any wiring problem;

( if you use the scantool to command the gears/solenoids, you should hear it click on )

if voltage is ok, then you will have to drop the pan to see/hear if the solenoid is working and if it needs replacement

( verify the new one before installing the pan ).

[joecar]

Also log the pids GM.GEAR and GM.BOXRATIO to see what gear/solenoid is being commanded and whether the correct gear/ratio is seen

( note: in 4th the ratio will be wrong because the ISS is after the 4th clutch, i.e. it is measuring overdriven input speed in 4th only )

check for trans DTC's (enable the solenoid DTC's if they have been disabled )

post logs showing trans pids.

[joecar]

Here is 4th gear ratio reference: 11506-4l80e-question



(https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?11506-4l80e-question&highlight=overdrive)

[joecar]

Here is 4th gear ratio reference: 11506-4l80e-question

(https://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?11506-4l80e-question&highlight=overdrive)i.e. to see if 4th gear is commanding you should see engine rpm drop even tho the pid GM.TIS stays the same as for 3rd gear...

take a log of these pids:
- GM.TIS
- GM.TOS
- SAE.RPM
- SAE.VSS
- SAE.TP
- SAE. MAP
- GM.GEAR
- GM.BOXRATIO
- GM.TCCMODE

[Mean Green Z28]

i.e. to see if 4th gear is commanding you should see engine rpm drop even tho the pid GM.TIS stays the same as for 3rd gear...

take a log of these pids:
- GM.TIS
- GM.TOS
- SAE.RPM
- SAE.VSS
- SAE.TP
- SAE. MAP
- GM.GEAR
- GM.BOXRATIO
- GM.TCCMODE
Thanks I will get to it in a few days. I just had dental surgery today and am out on painkillers for some time .. lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Mean Green Z28]

Do you also have the TCM wiring diagram that goes with that, I want to see if they agree.
Yes the connector schematic I obtained while trouble shooting was the correct one for the tune and shows 4L80E and 4L60E options on the G3500 van T42 TCM. Everything else seems to be in the same spot as in the T42 Connector on the sloppy mechanics page. I'll verify again on GM site to make sure and convert them to images instead of PDF so I can upload on EFILive



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[joecar]

Thanks I will get to it in a few days. I just had dental surgery today and am out on painkillers for some time .. lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
No worries, take your time, take care.

[Mean Green Z28]

No worries, take your time, take care.

Well the main difference I see for now is that the 2009 T42 Connector has 3 sets of the GMLAN Serial Bus signals coming to it while the older Connector shows only 2 sets. Would that cause any issues? the Circuit number for them all is 2500/2501 ... the only other changes are the TFP Switches (A,B,C) and where the ISS Low signal is terminated (26 vs. 45).

If I was to add the two GMLAN signals to 15 and 19, can I just jump it off of the other pins or is there a chance that these area headed somewhere else? Ofcourse I have to verify with my year's connector be I say this is it. Haven't got access to the site yet.

[Mean Green Z28]

Here we are!!! Everything converted to JPG so I can upload them

2009 G3500 Transmission Connector
20621

2009 G3500 T42 Connector
20624

2009 Silverado Transmission Connector
20622

2009 Silverado T42 Connector
20623

Here's an easier pic with comparisons of each connector...

2009 G3500 vs. Silverado T42 Connector Comparison
20632

2009 G3500 vs. Silverado Transmission Connector Comparison
20631

[Mean Green Z28]

Originals in pdf for those who like to keep good paperwork

20627

20628

20629

20630

[Mean Green Z28]

So I opened up the scanner tool and started saving up a pid file ... most are invalid?

20633

[joecar]

Thanks for posting above pdf's.



So I opened up the scanner tool and started saving up a pid file ... most are invalid?

20633

In scantool go Info->Validate Pids

( unless T42 does not support those pids, which does not help at all )

[Mean Green Z28]

i.e. to see if 4th gear is commanding you should see engine rpm drop even tho the pid GM.TIS stays the same as for 3rd gear...

take a log of these pids:
- GM.TIS
- GM.TOS
- SAE.RPM
- SAE.VSS
- SAE.TP
- SAE. MAP
- GM.GEAR
- GM.BOXRATIO
- GM.TCCMODE

Here's the log of a short drive after getting it all figured out.

20650

I guess I wasn't paying attention when stripping down the Frost harness of its relays and resisters and turns out the pin locations for the TFP needed to be moved over one to avoid the unused ground pin on the stock harness (I left the body harness as stock as possible) ... and I had swapped B and C in my haste. Everything seems to work now (well, lets see what you see in the Log ... I can def see the gear ratios change as the shifts complete).

Now the issue is that the the TCC doesn't seem strong enough to hold the converter locked. UGH! if it's not one, it's another! It's a stock G3500 trans tune so assuming I can bump up the pressures a bit as comparing the tunes shows the older 4L60E tune had much higher pressures down lower. Also, I'm not sure how our scaled tune comes into play when the TCM calculates pressure in relation to delivered engine torque. I'm wondering if we're showing torque down by a factor and need to multiply the values by 2 as we divided the values in the tune by 2 (Brett will have to verify this). I don't want to ruin a freshly built converter so as I drove home, I kept getting off the throttle to let the TCC unlock before I get back on it and tried to roll at minimum throttle as much as possible. I'm hoping it isn't too late.

Here's the wiring configuration I ended up with on the adapter harness.
20651

[joecar]

I see TCCMODE never going to Applied.

I see MAP doing weird stuff... at idle in R with closed throttle, MAP is zero kPa...

[joecar]

Which TCM signal are you using to drive the 4L80E's TCCPWM solenoid...?

[Mean Green Z28]

Joe,

Using the U terminal (PWM). Everything seems to work, and we've been playing with the tune. TCC seems to work well anough but just doesn't have any holding power anymore and just slips when getting into it when locked up above 80-90%. Assuming we've burned up clutches or there's some parameters in this tune we need to figure out to increase the PWM. TC builder says we need atleast 110psi of line press in there on a 4L80E ... if it doesn't hold, it's time for a much beefier converter (billet/multi-clutch etc.) as the street/strip 3200 stall isn't enough to hold the power.

Here's the latest Log. Not sure what the heck the MAP is doing! I'm looking at older logs and it's around 50kPA at idle. The only thing different is that these logs are when connected to TCM and not ECM after validating the parameters. Does that change anything? I have a Log before the 4L80E tune swap and it's about 50 .. could the tune be messing it up somehow?
20659

Latest tune that matches the Log.
20660

We were both wondering why the TCC goes from OFF to SLEW ... is there also a Applied mode? Never seen it coming on. Is there a time that the TCC needs to be at full PWM before it'll go to Applied mode?

[joecar]

Good idea, check line pressure... it should go higher than 110 psi, but how high depends on engine load...

I have to look this up for the 4L80E.

[joecar]

Also log the pids GM.TRQENG and GM.TFMPRS.

I'm wondering if MAP behaving strange is causing line pressure to be low.

[joecar]

There's tables for Min and Max TCC pressure...

set them both to 100%.

Post your current tune file.

[Mean Green Z28]

Current tune attached ... it's a scaled tune. Also a Log of a quick drive with that tune. I was just messing with the IAT vs. fuel flow rate table for the cooler weather.

[Mean Green Z28]

There's tables for Min and Max TCC pressure...

set them both to 100%.

Post your current tune file.

So disable PWM control? How does ramp rate really work? I copied the ramp rate table from the 4L60E tune and it seemed to ramp up faster but it takes so damn long to go from like 45% to 100% .. like 10-12 sec at least! Even the 1-2 shift takes a long time. another thing is that if I do a "spirited" take off, I get the flashing check engine light. The scanner can't read the code.

[Mean Green Z28]

Here it is with MIN tables maxed out .. you can see the TCC slip on the RPM.

I also logged a run with force motor current and it runs at about 0.6A but gets to about 0.5 as I roll into it ... is that too low?

[BLK02WS6]

Joe,
Does the TCCMODE in that log make sense to you? It has puzzled me since the first log he sent me. It seems to randomly show "Slew", "Rel", "App", "Lock" and even "unknown". Doesn't correlate to changing TPS/MPH... I don't know enough about what should be seen for some of these parameters.

[BLK02WS6]

Actually, it seems to be unlocking after shifting from 3rd to 4th and immediately locking back up again. Should it unlock after the shift or stay locked through the shifts?

[ScarabEpic22]

Actually, it seems to be unlocking after shifting from 3rd to 4th and immediately locking back up again. Should it unlock after the shift or stay locked through the shifts?

You can change whether the TCC stays locked during a shift or not via programming.

[BLK02WS6]

You can change whether the TCC stays locked during a shift or not via programming.

I know in some cases you can with the toggle that allows it, but this OS doesn't have the toggle - and based on the TPS/MPH, it should have stayed locked. I don't see why it is dropping in and out based on the settings.

[Mean Green Z28]

Well guys ... stock converter was just put in ... Ran a pressure guage and per recommendation by trans builder, set line pressures to be in the 80-125 range (before swapping to stock)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[BLK02WS6]

Are all problems resolved now that the stock is back in?

[Mean Green Z28]

Driving home in a bit

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Mean Green Z28]

Well I think we eliminated the weakest link! Goes through shifts nice and firm and locks up nice and tight! However, I don't have the cable to log cos I had to give it back and same with the mechanical gauge I had to return to the trans shop. I will invest in a trans pressure gauge soon.
Have to go over the tunes now and see if there's anything I wanna put back to the way it was before we started troubleshooting this ... like PWM control and shift pressures ect.
We did notice a lot of misfires during a "spirited acceleration" towards the top end/shift points; which Jason said may have attributed to the flashing engine light (didn't turn on this time), but also felt it may be because of the cam ... did you see any when tuning?


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[BLK02WS6]

Make sure you leave all of the scaling stuff I did. I would keep most of the changes actually...

Time to get the new converter :music_whistling_1:

[joecar]

Here it is with MIN tables maxed out .. you can see the TCC slip on the RPM.

I also logged a run with force motor current and it runs at about 0.6A but gets to about 0.5 as I roll into it ... is that too low?Your log shows light TP, so 0.5A is ok;

the lower the Force Motor Current (PCS solenoid current), the greater the line pressure... (compare the pids TFMPRS and TFMCUR).

Also log GM.TCCSLIP, GM.SHIFTLAST, GM.SHIFTERR.



Joe,
Does the TCCMODE in that log make sense to you? It has puzzled me since the first log he sent me. It seems to randomly show "Slew", "Rel", "App", "Lock" and even "unknown". Doesn't correlate to changing TPS/MPH... I don't know enough about what should be seen for some of these parameters.

When TP is steady, TCCMODE should go to AppEn and either App or Lock.

The log shows TCCMODE to Slew and then to Unknown, weird... stays in Slew for 7 seconds before going to Unknown.

I can see by comparing RPM to TIS that the TCC is unlocked during Slew and is locked during Unknown.

[joecar]

You can change whether the TCC stays locked during a shift or not via programming.I don't see that parameter in his TCM file.

[joecar]

I know in some cases you can with the toggle that allows it, but this OS doesn't have the toggle - and based on the TPS/MPH, it should have stayed locked. I don't see why it is dropping in and out based on the settings.The stock trans tunes from GM all unlock the TCC during shifts.

[joecar]

So the stock TC fixed it...?

[Mean Green Z28]

So the stock TC fixed it...?

Well from the seat of my pants and ride/shift/lockup feel while driving, everything seems to be fine and dandy! Goes through gears 1, 2, 3, TCC Locks, 4 ... doesn't miss a beat and I feel the firm shifts due to the stock converter now. It's like having 5 gears! hahaha I do have the DashLogic running with gear/temps/etc. on the dash so I know it the TCC or gears

Reverse does seem to engage with some force after I upped the pressure by reducing the forcemotor current values by 10% (to get the recommended value on the gauge).
Attached latest tune after playing with all the stuff trying to figure out what does what. Copied a whole bunch of shift tables from my old 4L60E tune and also tried to disable TCC in tow/haul mode (testing) ... I guess it isn't Pattern A .... cos it still locks up in tow/haul mode.
Kinda sucks not having my own cable ... can't do things when I suddenly get an idea, lol

[BLK02WS6]

You can come get my cable, but I need to fix a buddy's speedo at work next week - he got bigger tires and needs a cal...

[ScarabEpic22]

Glad you figured out the converter is toast (not good) and can figure out what's next.

I didnt see that table in this OS either, I've seen it in many others though so I wonder if it's there if someone went digging...

[joecar]

What converter did you have...?

[joecar]

...
tried to disable TCC in tow/haul mode (testing) ... I guess it isn't Pattern A .... cos it still locks up in tow/haul mode.
...Be careful when you try to prevent the TCC from locking...

when TCC is locked, the TC does not slip and so does not produce heat... GM use this strategy when ATF gets too hot.

[Mean Green Z28]

Be careful when you try to prevent the TCC from locking...

when TCC is locked, the TC does not slip and so does not produce heat... GM use this strategy when ATF gets too hot.
Yeah was just trying to see how to disable it if I didn't have time to swap stock in. Returned them back to original values. Also noticed it's running possibly 25-30f cooler now

What converter did you have...?
It is a R&R racing 3200 9.5"
Small operation run by a single guy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Mean Green Z28]

Glad you figured out the converter is toast (not good) and can figure out what's next.

I didnt see that table in this OS either, I've seen it in many others though so I wonder if it's there if someone went digging...

I'm sure it's somewhere buried in there along with the 0% throttle TCC unlock fix that HPT has released. I've read here that some tuners have created custom files to get to this portion of the tune, but the one guy I spoke to hadn't figured it out on the T42 controllers yet and the other can't help 'cos he's in Canada and has insurance issues on supporting customers in USA. I guess the only way to do it would be to pull the tune using HPT and fix it, but that's another license and tuner charges. Kinda sucks that EFILive doesn't support the T42 anymore.