Tuning help

[Jayyk31]

Hey what's up guys!!! So this is my 1st post on this forum. I'm Def a newbie tuner and I came over from the dark side (hp tuners). I tuned my 2000 s10 2.2 "alppha-N" truck with HP tuners but now Im ready to get my 408 Votec running and I thought EFI Live would b a better fit.

So anyway the point of my post... just need a Lil help starting up a good tune for this.

Specs on combo...

'03 lq4 block bored .030 over
4" stroke
Mamo 235cc heads
Cam specs...
http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s453/jayyk31/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2017-01-31-08-20-03.png (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/jayyk31/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Screenshot_2017-01-31-08-20-03.png.html)
Fast 36lb injectors
Mamo poted MSD intake
100mm tb
Lingenfelter 100 MAF
LS2 return less fuel rail w/vette fuel filter
D585 truck coils
-I'm running a Morose 3 vaNE vac pump (gonna monitor it through the FTP sensor thru pcm).

I'm probably forgetting something but that's the just of it.

This is all running through a t56 Magnum (close ratio).
8.5 10 bolt w/3.90 gears.

Pcm specs...
Currently '01 0288 OS from a 1500 Silverado (auto)
DBC
So far I have done...
Trans & Trans diagnostic segment swap from an '01 6 speed F body w/ 0288 OS.
I changed the Vin from the '01 Silverado to my '92 S10 which is the truck I'm using to swap it in.

Currently engine is on stand and I'm going to start it on stand to troubleshoot my wiring and anything else b4 I swap it in my truck.

I know my 1st order of business is I have to adjust my injector tables.
Then the MAF tables.
But just would like some help getting this set if possible and I'm really sorry for such a lonnnng post!!! I appreciate any info/help along the way

[joecar]

Jayyk31,

Welcome to the forum :cheers:

Post your tune file.

Do you have the injector data to populate the injector tables (as many as possible)...?

Did you measure rail pressure with fuel pump running...?

[Jayyk31]

Thanks Joe for the welcome!!! I do have the spreadsheet of data for the 36 lbs injectors. It has Inj Flow Rate, offset, fuel to wall transient, default pulswidth, min inj pulswidth, short pulse limit, short pulse adder. Im pretty sure it should populate all the cells too. I didn't measure rail pressure yet but I def will. Here is the stock tune I was thinking about using. This tune is stock, I don't believe I changed anything on this including the vin.

[Jayyk31]

Here is another pcm I have. its a reman OS 2156 DBW. I didn't update the vin yet either. Both of these tunes are auto tans. Does it matter which one I use?

[joecar]

If your TB is cable driven, then I would use the non-DBW tune as a starting point.

Are the injectors rated to flow 36 lb/hr at 3-bar rail pressure...? When you measure rail pressure (it will be 4-bar, 58 psi) you will have to scale the injectors.

~Moderator~

[Jayyk31]

I have to double check with FAST on that info. Im pretty sure they are the Bosch injectors. As soon as i get the fuel rail and lines plumbed i can measure the pressure to be 100% certain.
OK so i will use the 0288 OS. This morning i copied and pasted all the data from the spreadsheet into the tune. My question is for "fuel to wall transient" in the spreadsheet. Would that be "B3406" or "B4401" in the tune file? Other than that everything pretty much transferred over fine.

Im gonna continue editing the tune and documenting what i change in my notebook. Heres the tune now after i copied everything over except "fuel to wall transient".

Thanks for your help Joe! I really appreciate it!

[joecar]

fuel to wall transient: this would be B3406 (fuel that stays on wall after injector sprays).

B3401 would be the evaporation time of the wall puddle.

[joecar]

...

Are the injectors rated to flow 36 lb/hr at 3-bar rail pressure...? When you measure rail pressure (it will be 4-bar, 58 psi) you will have to scale the injectors.



Those 36 lb/hr @ 43.5 psi injectors will flow 41.6 lb/hr @ 58 psi (measure your rail pressure).


36 lb/hr * sqrt(58/43.5) = 41.56 lb/hr

41.56 lb/hr * 0.126 (g/s)/(lb/hr) = 5.237 g/s

at 0 kPa MANVAC, IFR = 5.237 g/s
at 80 kPa MANVAC, IFR = 5.237 g/s * sqrt(480/400) = 5.737 g/s

I see your B4001 IFR table is populated incorrectly (it looks like you pasted in lb/hr values with g/s units):

LABELS Injector Flow Rate (Grams/Second)
Manifold Vacuum kPa {link: GM.MANVAC} Value
0 39.867188
5 40.242188
10 40.429688
15 40.679688
20 40.992188
25 41.109375
30 41.296875
35 41.609375
40 41.851563
45 42.156250
50 42.406250
55 42.468750
60 42.851563
65 43.031250
70 43.281250
75 43.468750
80 43.710938

[Jayyk31]

Gotya!!! Good catch thank you!!! I will correct that!!

[Jayyk31]

I fixed the IFR. I recalculated and set the column label to lbs/hr.

I also scaled the VE & cranking VE by 25.48% as a start. Thats the difference i calculated from the cylinder air from a 5.3 to a 408ci.

[joecar]

...

I also scaled the VE & cranking VE by 25.48% as a start. Thats the difference i calculated from the cylinder air from a 5.3 to a 408ci.+1
this is a good thing to do, let's see how this goes.

[Jayyk31]

Cool, thanks Joe for all your help!!! We'll see how it looks when i can check the rail pressure and get a good scan/log in. Joe, one last ques... Do i need to alter anything in G1206 and G1207? My thinking tells me NO but figured i would double check. Thanks dude! :cheers:

[joecar]

...
Do i need to alter anything in G1206 and G1207? My thinking tells me NO but figured i would double check. Thanks dude! :cheers:

No worries.

G1206/G1207 shows F-Body with AIR Pump and Alternator L Terminal, do you physically have both of those...?

Do you physically have any that are listed as No.


I would leave G1206/7 alone (unless I had some time to play/experiment with it).

[Jayyk31]

Reguarding G1207, i have no AIR injection, NOT running alternator through pcm, and i am running the factory oil pressure sender through the "EGR" in the pcm so i can log the oil pressure. Seperate i also have the oil guage sender for the s10 directly to the dash.

Im gonna not mess with this table until i get everything running and im able to log the input/output of whats going on.

[joecar]

Reguarding G1207, i have no AIR injection, NOT running alternator through pcm, and i am running the factory oil pressure sender through the "EGR" in the pcm so i can log the oil pressure. Seperate i also have the oil guage sender for the s10 directly to the dash.

Im gonna not mess with this table until i get everything running and im able to log the input/output of whats going on.
In G1207 you can turn off AIR and Alternator L.

Are you able to log pressure ok thru the EGR interface...?

[Jayyk31]

I was thinking that i should be able to log the EOP and set up a custom PID (or something like that) to convert the units into #'s that make sense. Like logging a wideband through EGR or AC. Am i able to do that? I logged my wideband this way with the "other" software. Also want to log crankcase vacuum/pressure through the FTP sensor pins.
Cool so i will turn off those things in G1207.

[joecar]

There is a calc pid for EOP that we can borrow (we have to modify it for EGR input).

You may be able to log thru ACP as long as it does not interfere with cooling fan control.

[Jayyk31]

OK I will try the Calculated EOP pid 1st and try to get that to work.

I was just thinking, on another note, I used the '01 Silverado auto tune, segment swapped the Trans segments and system segment from a 6 speed f body. I pinned my pcm based on the truck pin outs. So on the trucks the clutch anticipate switch is in pin J1 blue 35. On the f body it's j1 32 blue. Should I keep it as is or move it to the f-body pin location?

[joecar]

The CALC.EOP pid uses the pid GM.EOPS which reports Corvette LS1 oil pressure voltage input to the PCM...

you would need to enable Engine Oil Pressure in G1207, and you would need to pin the PCM connector (I would have to look at a 2002 Corvette wire diagram).

[Jayyk31]

7 blue, 58 red, 63 red. That's the pinout for the '02 vetted EOP sensor. I'm gonna check out the scanner tonight when I get home from work and look for that pid.
Ya know I noticed also that this '02 vetted I got the pinout from has the clutch anticipate switch in pin 35 blue just like the trucks. F body has it in pin 32 blue. I guess they must have moved it for some reason?

[Jayyk31]

The CALC.EOP pid uses the pid GM.EOPS which reports Corvette LS1 oil pressure voltage input to the PCM...

you would need to enable Engine Oil Pressure in G1207, and you would need to pin the PCM connector (I would have to look at a 2002 Corvette wire diagram).

When I enable the oil pressure in G1207 which platform do I enable it under? When I did the system segment swap the platform options switched from gm 810 to f body?

[joecar]

F-body.

[Ricoch3T]

What calculation did you use to calculate the VE difference for cubic inches?
I keep taking shots in the dark from a stock 5.7 table for my 396ci motor


+1
this is a good thing to do, let's see how this goes.


I fixed the IFR. I recalculated and set the column label to lbs/hr.

I also scaled the VE & cranking VE by 25.48% as a start. Thats the difference i calculated from the cylinder air from a 5.3 to a 408ci.

[joecar]

To convert ci to L divide by 61...

with units, it's actually 61 ci/L...

so (396 ci) / (61 ci/L) = 6.49 L


so then the fraction increase = 6.49 / 5.7 = 1.14 (rounding to 2 places)... so about 14% increase in displacement.

[Jayyk31]

Joecar explained that perfectly!!! For my combo I figured the % difference in displacement from 325ci to 408ci. Then I multiplied the table by the percent difference. I still have to fine tune everything anyway but the engine fired and ran on the '01 Silverado tune with all the fueling modifications but I couldn't get her to fire with the '01 f body tune for some reason. And of course I need to use the f body tune because it's a factory 6 speed tune. Lol!

[Ricoch3T]

Appreciate it... Been trying to force myself to learn how to tune.. I keep wanting to give up and head to the dyno though.

Thanks again sorry to hijack your thread.


To convert ci to L divide by 61...

with units, it's actually 61 ci/L...

so (396 ci) / (61 ci/L) = 6.49 L


so then the fraction increase = 6.49 / 5.7 = 1.14 (rounding to 2 places)... so about 14% increase in displacement.

[joecar]

No worries.

The basics are: airmass, fuel (which is proportional to airmass), injector data, spark advance, idle.

The GM PCM's are a bit more difficult because they have built-in sanity checks and saves (e.g. fueling is determined by richest of the currently active tables, and negative trims are never applied to PE/WOT).