Cummins Fueling Status and Timins Status

[comnrailpwr]

Does anyone on here have a list as to what all the counts mean for main injection fueling status, main injection timing status 1 & main injection timing status 2 status when logging the cummins ecm's? CMB in particular. I have searched online without luck and know I have seen a list before. Greatly appreciated. thanks Jake

[GMPX]

We used to use those to trace through the code paths when finding limiters etc, sorry but I don't have a complete list with explanation on what each number represents.

[comnrailpwr]

I'm hitting some sort of limiter thats holding mm3 back to 128-130 but worse timing. Even if I scale the tune to 130 is full tilt then timing still isn't hitting peak in any of the maps. Even made min/max same as base table and it's still a few degrees off.

This is a standalone setup in a puller so all limiters and altitude tables are maxed or same as base table. Only necessary sensors are being used.

The ones I'm hitting are

Main injection fueling status - 45
Main injection timing status 1 - 29
Main injection timing status 2 - 25

[comnrailpwr]

I'm thinking possibly something to do with not having speed signal, ambient temperature signal or barometric psi signal. I have reworked the baro psi scaling to now read low side fuel pressure with a 0-60psi sensor. Unplugging that made nod difference tho.

[GMPX]

Jake, as far as I know there is everything needed in the CMB .calz files to command whatever you want so it might be limiting based on some sort of error. Anyway that aside, I had a quick look in my list and Main Status = 45 means a Torque Management Limiter is active.
What is the PID name on the timing ones? I assume this is with an EDA log file? Though I bet we find that those timing states relate to torque limiting too.

[comnrailpwr]

Yes EDA.

Jake, as far as I know there is everything needed in the CMB .calz files to command whatever you want so it might be limiting based on some sort of error. Anyway that aside, I had a quick look in my list and Main Status = 45 means a Torque Management Limiter is active.
What is the PID name on the timing ones? I assume this is with an EDA log file? Though I bet we find that those timing states relate to torque limiting too.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170918/988a7b053dfe4388c3fa3152cbcbb15e.jpg

[comnrailpwr]

Another thing I have done is do away with the oil pressure signal input and repurposed the coolant temp sensor for oil temp as my engine is all filled. Wouldn't think that would affect anything as oil temp is same range as coolant temp, unless the ecm needs that input from the factory oil psi circuit closure.

[comnrailpwr]

Must be limited by a table that isn't mapped out then I assume. I have the Current mapped out ones maxed to your limits. Thanks for the help Ross.

If anyone has a list I would love to have it in my records!!

[GMPX]

I have been under the assumption that it is possible to reach any RPM and any mm3 number you want on the CMB, maybe people are fudging some tables to get there?
And that timing status = 29, sorry but I am not sure what that status value is indicating.

[Dom_c13b]

No numbers fudging to get rpm. What rpm are you starting to notice it pulling commanded?

[comnrailpwr]

It's not RPM based. It will not go over 130 no matter what I do. Which that's fine as I can manipulate the tables to where 130 is full fuel. I haven't had any problems with fueling at all. The problem I'm having is timing does not match the maps. I had changed some axises around right before this started happening and I'm going to try make a pass with the old axises. It still didn't make sense on the 2 passes tho. Unfortunately I dropped a valve seat so won't be able to test again until October 11th and it's my last run of the year.

[Dom_c13b]

Ahh gotcha, have you tried a different base file?

[comnrailpwr]

I'm going too when I get the motor back together. This is the same base and ecm I have been using for years as a standalone setup. It's hard to test without being hooked to the sled but going to try once it runs again. 1700hp and no suspension gets violent without being held back by something.

[Orange Stroker]

I'm thinking possibly something to do with not having speed signal, ambient temperature signal or barometric psi signal. I have reworked the baro psi scaling to now read low side fuel pressure with a 0-60psi sensor. Unplugging that made nod difference tho.

Did you ever figure this out for sure? I agree with you on this I believe it is something to do with standalone. I'm only ever hitting 130mm3 as well in a Fummins conversion. There is a limit not mapped out in EFI Live that we are for sure missing here i think. I'm just going to try rescaling to 110mm3 and see how it works out.


I have full list of fueling status info if you would like for your records. Just pm me your email.

[kyle027]

I would like the list of fueling statuses if you wouldn’t mind sending them to me

[comnrailpwr]

Somehow I just am seeing this. I have not had the truck running long enough since these issues do diag.. I feel I may never figure it out as I changed so much for this season. built a new harness and changed ECM to another 07 ECM. I hope to get it done to make a couple passes this season but life has me slammed. So I shall find out sometime within the next couple months if the issues return. I do know changing base file did not help. Have done several stand alone and never had one limit timing reguardless of what the tables say. Mm3 is hit or miss but easily manipulated. Reguardless I would like your list of the ECM coded status. Much appreciated! [email protected]

[Frankie92]

Did you ever figure this out for sure? I agree with you on this I believe it is something to do with standalone. I'm only ever hitting 130mm3 as well in a Fummins conversion. There is a limit not mapped out in EFI Live that we are for sure missing here i think. I'm just going to try rescaling to 110mm3 and see how it works out.


I have full list of fueling status info if you would like for your records. Just pm me your email.

Any chances I can get a list of the fueling status as I'm running into some similar issues atm, above 3k rpm goes from status 8 to 42.

[thegoat70808]

Here's my list of the Cummins fuel modes...hope this helps some
23650

[Frankie92]

Very cool, thanks man!!

[Frankie92]

If anyone has an updated or expanded list let me know!

[Orange Stroker]

Here is fueling states list I have for those interested. It is old FYI

https://mega.nz/file/Uy4y0QwR#WYLVo3xeM6ZcCxgv-sMkjEnkd_7TJ8VB2mO8O8gzAW8

[Frankie92]

Here is fueling states list I have for those interested. It is old FYI

https://mega.nz/file/Uy4y0QwR#WYLVo3xeM6ZcCxgv-sMkjEnkd_7TJ8VB2mO8O8gzAW8

This is def what I needed to see. I recently got more fuel control state data out of it on the dyno and the previous list only went up so far. This gave me data about state 86 and a more extensive list. Thanks for taking your time to get that to me!

[justinp]

i have same issue also, problem is that efi never mapped the torque management tables. i have figured out they are related to the speed inputs. the ecm thinks it's destroying the drive train so it's trying to save itself. i reallly wish they would add this to program or if someone else could find and map this it would be awesome.

[Jtpappy]

Has anyone every figured out this code 45? I keep hitting it.

[Orange Stroker]

Post your file.

[Jtpappy]

They are maxed. Tried keeping it under 126mm3 because count 45 limits at 126mm3 at 3500. I need a .cax file but no one wants to share hex files so I can look through it. Just doing this as a hobby and everyone makes it’s so difficult.

[Jtpappy]

i have same issue also, problem is that efi never mapped the torque management tables. i have figured out they are related to the speed inputs. the ecm thinks it's destroying the drive train so it's trying to save itself. i reallly wish they would add this to program or if someone else could find and map this it would be awesome.

There is a guy out there that has but won’t let it up.

[biggy238]

Bumping this up. Has any resolution been found for this? I'm finding that on the logs from my OS that the transition from governor status 7 to governor status 45 is tied directly to crossing any duration command above 1600uS. This causes a plateau on the fuel command, a "derate', that would otherwise continued on a nice upward slope. I will post some screenshots when I can get back to them.

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[biggy238]

24276

I found another log that appears to be 1500uS. I am going to get another log today as this one is over a year old.

[Twistedshafts]

You will not be able to reach full fuel in a stand-alone setup without help outside of EFILive. I have posted about it. There are several Limiters not provided in EFILive. You can use Hp Tuners for a single tune or find someone to write you up a CAX file.

[RD TRCTR]

You will not be able to reach full fuel in a stand-alone setup without help outside of EFILive. I have posted about it. There are several Limiters not provided in EFILive. You can use Hp Tuners for a single tune or find someone to write you up a CAX file.

OK, I am listening. Thank you for the information.

biggy and I have been discussing this exact topic on another forum as we are both having this issue.

So.. the issue that exists cannot be overcome with what is currently mapped in EFILive, as all of the limiters are not mapped in EFILive... Got it. I can either obtain the files necessary for CalTerm to find the limiters and then create a cax file.

However, you're making it sound like the necessary limiters are mapped in HPTuner. I hate HPTuner. But, if the limiters are mapped in HPTuner, a single file could be modified with the limiter addressed, flashed onto the ECM, and then the file read out with EFILive, modified further as desired and flashed back on. With the limiters being addressed in the background, in the areas unable to be edited by EFILive, the issue should be resolved. Is this correct?

[biggy238]

You will not be able to reach full fuel in a stand-alone setup without help outside of EFILive. I have posted about it. There are several Limiters not provided in EFILive. You can use Hp Tuners for a single tune or find someone to write you up a CAX file.

Sorry for the late reply, but thank you for the response. Is this to say that HP does have these limiters exposed? Even with a CAX, is this due to the lacking TIPM comm? I suppose one could tune around it.24445

[arinkuddy]

Sorry for the late reply, but thank you for the response. Is this to say that HP does have these limiters exposed? Even with a CAX, is this due to the lacking TIPM comm? I suppose one could tune around it.24445

You can download and look at tunes in HP Tuners just like EFILive. I have done this exact same thing. I will use HP Tuners to make a change to the base file then upload to ECM, read out, reapply changes using compare tool in EFILive then upload again. Tedious for sure.

[biggy238]

You can download and look at tunes in HP Tuners just like EFILive. I have done this exact same thing. I will use HP Tuners to make a change to the base file then upload to ECM, read out, reapply changes using compare tool in EFILive then upload again. Tedious for sure.I may try this. I retooled a manual file to match my auto file and it still has the same status code derate under heavy throttle.
Once it hits 115mm3 fuel position, it changes from an exponential climb, noses over and eventually hits 130mm3 anyway. More of a nuisance than anything at this point.

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[Twistedshafts]

HP Tuners is actually very awesome. They do provide all the tables to get past the TTVA for FMVB. There is also another limiter not in EFI live that doesn't allow fueling past 3,800. You can disable the PID control under rpm limiters. If you do this you will have full MM3 to whatever you want but ECM will no longer control the FCA and rail pressure drops. It does not work correctly. Pid must stay enabled for proper FCA control through the entire RPM curve. Things you would think EFI Live would have added into the software so people everywhere could use these trucks to their full capabilities. Not just people you can build CAX files. I spend a lot of money with EFI Live but it is lacking and frustrating.

[Twistedshafts]

24491
Here is a limiter not provided. High speed governor will pull fuel.

[biggy238]

Can I load an HP base file into an ECM with the CSP5 patch, or will I need to flash back to stock first?
I assume I need to configure a stock file in HP, flash it, read out with EFI, and then convert to CSP5.

Photo of the nose-over in fuel position

I agree, I'm not the most EFI fluent, but I've seen several things that seem lacking. I guess a 20 year old platform isn't relevant for support.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231011/5d75e7da64e21781d35e961237a91704.jpg

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[Twistedshafts]

I am currently working on this problem and hope to have a solution in the near future. I may put the file into BIN format and then convert it back to CSP5 so the limiters are gone. You can change all the limiters in Hp Tuners and flash it in. Read it out with EFI Live and convert it over. Make your changes and flash it back in.

[biggy238]

I am currently working on this problem and hope to have a solution in the near future. I may put the file into BIN format and then convert it back to CSP5 so the limiters are gone. You can change all the limiters in Hp Tuners and flash it in. Read it out with EFI Live and convert it over. Make your changes and flash it back in.Excellent. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help. I'm checking to see if I have an HP credit left now.

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[arinkuddy]

24491
Here is a limiter not provided. High speed governor will pull fuel.

pretty sure this limiter is in EFILive called out under engine protection

[biggy238]

pretty sure this limiter is in EFILive called out under engine protectionIt looks similar to me.

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[Twistedshafts]

24492
This is what EFI Live has in their files.

[arinkuddy]

24492
This is what EFI Live has in their files.
I see it now

[biggy238]

I have a file ready to modify. Interesting that the fan controls are available in HP but not EFI.

Let me know if you have any luck shutting off the governors. I plan to try this weekend.

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[got boost?]

Hey guys I just happened up on this thread. You need to be logging the fuel control mode to get an idea of what is causing your derates. What ecm yall talking about? thread started with older one but I'm not sure what you guys are working on now. Between looking at your fuel control mode, using HP like yall are you can totally get rid of all derates, theres a couple mapped in hp that aren't clearly derates. You can get all the ecm's including 2450 fueling to whatever rpm you want hitting desired mm3. Actual torque may not meet demanded torque but thats irrelevent it hits your rail, timing and pulsewidth goals. Of course you gotta deal with torque based fueling on the 5th gens but thats no biggie

[biggy238]

Hey guys I just happened up on this thread. You need to be logging the fuel control mode to get an idea of what is causing your derates. What ecm yall talking about? thread started with older one but I'm not sure what you guys are working on now. Between looking at your fuel control mode, using HP like yall are you can totally get rid of all derates, theres a couple mapped in hp that aren't clearly derates. You can get all the ecm's including 2450 fueling to whatever rpm you want hitting desired mm3. Actual torque may not meet demanded torque but thats irrelevent it hits your rail, timing and pulsewidth goals. Of course you gotta deal with torque based fueling on the 5th gens but thats no biggieWell, I agree about the logging, which I'm fairly certain those of us involved in the thread to this point have been doing, myself for over a year now. You can see in at
least one of my images that status is in the top right corner.
I'm on a CM849, the thread was under that sub forum, but I use Tapatalk and don't have to check that to access the thread.
Unfortunately it's more complex than that. Status Code 16 for instance: I retooled the boost fuel limiter table to try and get a grip on the smoke for my daily driver tune. What I succeeded in doing was creating a dead pedal state that corresponds to the onset of that status, that no matter how long I watched the logs, I couldn't pinpoint the entry condition that set the status. Obviously according to the descriptor in the Cummins document, it's anaerobic fuel control, but that offers little in the way of knowing what tables or PID's are involved.

I did have some success last night by rescaling the RPM range to give me better resolution in the driving range that I wish to control, which in turn got rid of status code 16 I believe.

I'm not terribly familiar with HP, so any hints on where to look for limiting tables are appreciated. In the manual file I created with HP, I think I was only able to find one or two that waren't already exposed in EFI.

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[got boost?]

16 - AFC (Air / Fuel Command) Derate (2004)
OFC (Oxygen Fuel Control) Derate (2007 and later)
Fuel limited for amount of intake air
Not enough boost for commanded fueling
Too much boost for commanded fueling
Inoperable wastegates
Typically seen very briefly on an acceleration (Pre 2007 Only)
Extended periods of time in AFC derate are an indication of other issues (ex: recent issues on midrange injectors) (Pre 2007 Only)
For 2010 and later a few seconds of OFC is normal during hard accelerations

This is from some of my stuff. In short it is related to air/fuel ratio control and usually in my experience due to the lambda table limiting fueling or you also see it when turbo speed results in derate. I don't know much about these older controllers I mostly mess with 2350 and 2450. Hope this helps Oh BTW, hp offers lotsa tricks if you think outside the box

[biggy238]

my experience due to the lambda table limiting fueling or you also see it when turbo speed results in derate.
There's what I'm after.
The description you have is the same as the document I have.

I just modified the lambda table a night or two ago.

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[biggy238]

So I went through HP checking limiters for the CM849. I think I only found three that don't appear to have an equivalent in EFI.
I tried to flash a modified base file with HP, but I'm out of credits ATM.

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