Help with base tune?

[Burnett03]

Hey guys,
I'm very new to EFI live tuning but i've been doing tons of research trying to get the base tune for the new setup on my truck. Here are the details:
05 4.8 silverado
Deka 80lb injectors
FPR regulator set at 58psi with boost reference.
Walbro 450
3 bar map in stock location
S475 t4 turbo

I'm trying to get the basic things done on the COS so it will atleast start and drive so i can do some tuning. I have inputted some of the injector data but i'm confused on a few things. On my xcel spreadsheet it shows "offset" but i have no idea where to paste in this table on EFI live. I am ASSuming it's under table B3701? Also confused where "fuel to wall transient" goes in EFI live. I will attach the spreadsheet and my tune if anyone has time to look them over. Also if anything is way out of wack please tell me. Thanks guys!

-Ryan
Denver,CO

[joecar]

Hi Ryan,


...
On my xcel spreadsheet it shows "offset" but i have no idea where to paste in this table on EFI live. I am ASSuming it's under table B3701?
Yes, that's correct.



Also confused where "fuel to wall transient" goes in EFI live. I will attach the spreadsheet and my tune if anyone has time to look them over.
This would be table B3406 "Impact Factor"... but your tune does not have this table (see under Fuel->Dynamics).



Also do this: set FPR to 58 psi with reference hose temporarily unplugged (i.e. open to atmosphere)

( after setting FPR, be sure to reconnect reference hose )

[Burnett03]

As always, thank you for taking the time to help Joe. I'll do that.

[Burnett03]

Guys I've finally got the truck ready to actually drive. I've started it and it seems to idle fairly well when cold. Once the truck warms up if I turn it off and try to restart it I have to keep my foot on the gas to keep it running. I'm assuming maybe its because the truck needs to relearn the idle? What is my next step tuning wise? I've followed the tutorial in the custom o/s upgrade and deleted the maf. The truck is on a separate IAT sensor and a 3 bar map sensor now. I've also added an AEM wideband and have it logging through efi live via serial. What is my next move? Do I now following the AUTO VE tutorial? I no longer have a MAF sensor, just the 3 bar map, do I still follow this tutorial? Thank you so much guys!

[joecar]

Post tune file and log files.

[Burnett03]

Post tune file and log files.
Here is my current tune. I will get a log file of idle this weekend once i weld the muffler on. Thank you.

[joecar]

What injectors do you have...?

Did you measure rail pressure (with reference hose removed)...?

[Burnett03]

What injectors do you have...?

Did you measure rail pressure (with reference hose removed)...?

Deka 80lb
Rail pressure is 58psi with vacuum line removed.

[Burnett03]

Here are two idle logs, plus my tune. i added some airflow to B4307 when hot and it made it idle pretty good hot for a while. Shut it off after 20mins of idle time and i couldn't get it to idle again without babying the throttle with my foot. My second log is when it was a hot restart and didn't want to idle. Thanks

[joecar]

You may have to do rafig/idle tuning.

I'm still looking thru your files.

[Burnett03]

Finally got the truck to idle on its own by playing with the idle airflow. Took it for a short drive but it wants to die when coming to a stop. I can't start the auto ve process until i get this fixed obviously. Attached a tune and log file. I'm having knee surgery tomorrow so i'll be down on the couch for a week or so. That will give me time to read up more on EFI Live.

[joecar]

Hope your surgery goes well.

[chazbob]

This was a nice read and i think it's awesome these guys are willing to help you out. I'm also new to this and have just received my EFI kit and have no idea where to start with a custom o.s / base tune! If you ever get bored on the couch i'd love to chat! If i can be of any help i will and hope you get her running well soon. Cheers, Charlie

[Burnett03]

Thanks guys. I dont know much but I did upgrade to a custom o/s and have got it running. So I know a tiny amount

[Burnett03]

Any ideas guys? Ran the RAFIG and RAFPN today which helped the idle out. Truck still drops very low in the RPM range when coming to a stop and wants to also almost die when the fans/a/c comes on. I played with the fan airflow table which helped, but i wasn't sure how far to go. Here is my latest tune/log file. I also noticed that my TPS is always reading 14-19% at idle. Is that normal?

[Burnett03]

I've also noticed to guys that if i use the DVT tab to engage the a/c or turn on the fans the truck wont really want to die. But if i let the truck do those on its own it will. I also assume my TPS issue is because i'm using the wrong PID.

[joecar]

VE table B0101 looks incorrect in the low rpm rows.

[joecar]

Log shows that PE is having a hard time kicking in.

[LastCall]

Idle dropping in decel can usually be addressed in the throttle cracker table. Assuming AFR is solid and base running airflow is correct.

[joecar]

+1 throttle cracker as LastCall said.

[joecar]

Jason, BTW, this reminds me (I forget a lot of things), I did not yet see your email yet (from our phone a week ago), you might want to resend it.

[Burnett03]

Thank you guys. I'm going to hopefully get some data logged this weekend for auto ve.. Can you guys take a quick check and make sure my PIDs are ok? Is it ok that my wideband is lambda and the commanded is in afr?
22178

[LastCall]

Jason, BTW, this reminds me (I forget a lot of things), I did not yet see your email yet (from our phone a week ago), you might want to resend it.

Sorry Joe! Got busy and the customer ended up picking up his truck. I think there was a vacuum leak causing havoc with idle and decel.

[joecar]

ah, ok, no worries (I see a lot of vacuum leaks).

[Burnett03]

Any help guys? Do i have the correct PIDs to autove with my serial WB in lambda?

[joecar]

I'm still looking thru your stuff...

[Burnett03]

I'm still looking thru your stuff...

hold off joe... I ran the autove 3x today and got things a little better. I'll post a better log/tune file. Thanks again for your help.

[Burnett03]

Joe, here is my latest tune/log. In this tune i have already applied the AUTO Ve Ben to it from that log. I've also attached a shortened log of trying to hit boost. Truck runs pig rich and wont boost. Do i need to take VE out of A0009 to lean it out some? I can't run Auto VE on the boost table because its so rich it wants to sputter. Also having an issue after driving for a while the truck will stall once i go to park. Truck also wants to stall coming to a stop but it usually catches itself. Again as always thank you for taking the time. I'm trying to get this truck lined out and learning as i go..

[statesman]

Tuning a boosted engine while learning the basics... now there's a recipe for disaster. :laugh:

I don't do much tuning on turbo boosted engines. You really need to get the EGT into the happy zone for the turbo to work well, which can be an absolute PITA... but that's something to worry about AFTER you get the basic tune right.

I might be able to give you a nudge in the right direction. Does your engine have a MAF sensor fitted?... and what mods have been done besides what you've already told us about?

[joecar]

+1 on what statesman said, be careful to not allow knock.

First get NA tuned/running right (including idle).

Not going into boost indicates a physical problem, you will have to fix this first.

[Burnett03]

+1 on what statesman said, be careful to not allow knock.

First get NA tuned/running right (including idle).

Not going into boost indicates a physical problem, you will have to fix this first.
The truck will boost just fine but goes pig rich at around 3psi. I followed the COS tutorial to create a starting point for the boost ve table but it seems way to rich.

[Burnett03]

Tuning a boosted engine while learning the basics... now there's a recipe for disaster. :laugh:

I don't do much tuning on turbo boosted engines. You really need to get the EGT into the happy zone for the turbo to work well, which can be an absolute PITA... but that's something to worry about AFTER you get the basic tune right.

I might be able to give you a nudge in the right direction. Does your engine have a MAF sensor fitted?... and what mods have been done besides what you've already told us about?
I didnt realize people were still using egt to tune turbo gas motors. I assumed everyone was using wideband like me.
Here is what's done:
4.8
COS3
s475 t4 turbo
fmic
aem wideband
dual walbro 450s in tank
AFPR set at 55psi with vacuum line off
Deka 80lb injectors
No maf
gm iat in upper boost pipe
3 bar map sensor
4" exhaust

Thanks for offering to help.

[joecar]

Can you post your calc_pids.txt file.

[statesman]

I didnt realize people were still using egt to tune turbo gas motors. I assumed everyone was using wideband like me.

Yeah, you can tune with the wideband and that will get your fueling 'right', so to speak.... but EGT is governed by a combination of fuel and spark. Let's see how long your turbo lasts if you end up running really high EGT and you overheat the turbo.... your wideband will still be reading 'right' while your turbo is exploding.

Some of us old folk actually understand the importance of EGT on turbo'd engines... which is why I mostly avoid tuning them. It's also why supercharging is so popular now... the worst you can get with a badly tuned supercharged engine is glowing headers.

I'll try to look over your files in the next day or two.

[Burnett03]

I hope you didn't take offense to that. It wasn't intended that way. Back when i was big into 4 cylinder turbo cars all we had to tune with was a narrowband o2 and an EGT. I understand the importance of high EGT's i just hadn't seen many people using them anymore. Obviously both my diesel trucks have them and i monitor them like a hawk. Thanks for your time.

[Burnett03]

I've attached the calc_pids

[statesman]

I've had a look at your files and here's what I've found...

The rich in boost is because you've set your Boost VE Table {A0009} wrong. People who don't have a boost referenced FPR have that table sloping up because they need to compensate for the reduced injector flow rate in boost... but you do have boost referencing, so your boost ve table needs to be a lot flatter.

As joecar has pointed out to you previously, your Main VE Table looks wrong. You've dug a massive hole in it trying to combat a rich decel... and the rich decel is still there. Make the following changes...

{B4003} Minimum Injector Pulse Width... Set all values to 0.25
{B4004} Default Minimum Pulse Width... Set all values to 0.25
{B4005}Small Pulse Adjust... Set all values to zero.

You should have less problems tuning the VE with these settings.

Your main spark table is flat above 0.8g/s... you're likely to exceed that, so be careful you don't get any knock. Personally, I'd slope the spark table down a bit while tuning and then bring it back up slowly while you're actually tuning the spark.

[Burnett03]

I've had a look at your files and here's what I've found...

The rich in boost is because you've set your Boost VE Table {A0009} wrong. People who don't have a boost referenced FPR have that table sloping up because they need to compensate for the reduced injector flow rate in boost... but you do have boost referencing, so your boost ve table needs to be a lot flatter.

Ahh that makes perfect sense, thank you.

As joecar has pointed out to you previously, your Main VE Table looks wrong. You've dug a massive hole in it trying to combat a rich decel... and the rich decel is still there. Make the following changes...

Yes it's very rich on decal according to the BEN map.

{B4003} Minimum Injector Pulse Width... Set all values to 0.25
{B4004} Default Minimum Pulse Width... Set all values to 0.25
{B4005}Small Pulse Adjust... Set all values to zero.

You should have less problems tuning the VE with these settings.

I will do this, thank you.

Your main spark table is flat above 0.8g/s... you're likely to exceed that, so be careful you don't get any knock. Personally, I'd slope the spark table down a bit while tuning and then bring it back up slowly while you're actually tuning the spark.

Got it. Thank you for taking the time to help me.