LS1 ECU on 5.3 setup

[moatsman5000]

Hey everyone, I am new here and getting ready to start tuning my first ECU. I have been doing a ton of reading and so far I was able to remove the VATS and get the motor started. It idles but I don

[joecar]

Hi moatesman,
Welcome.
What year/model/vehicle do you have...?
What mods...?

[moatsman5000]

Thanks for the welcome, Joecar. I wrote a really long post with all of my information, links and pictures however I received a message that a moderator would need to approve it for some reason. Then the truncated post above showed up. My project is a combination of a bunch of stuff. I have a 5.3 Iron block with a 2002 camaro ECU, intake and all other accessories. This is mated to a Nissan 350z (cd009) 6 speed transmission using a collins adapter kit. All of this is shoved into a 2000 BMW 323ci. As stated above I have it together enough to start and idle but am waiting on some drive shaft parts and finishing up some plumbing and wiring. Ill put my questions and info back together in another post here in a little bit.

[joecar]

To avoid the truncation symptom, write your post in Notepad first, and then copy/paste it to here.

[joecar]

Post your tune file.

[moatsman5000]

I have posted my tune file with VATS removed and a tune file I found for a manual via a dropbox link from this forum somewhere. I was trying decide the easiest way to convert from automatic to manual. The ECU I have came from an automatic 2002 F body (No VATS tune attached). I found a very long and detailed post / link outlining the conversion process however i found a Dropbox link that includes the attached manual tune for a 2002 f Body. Should I just use the downloaded manual tune and start from there?

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[Supercharged111]

Is the motor stock? In my racing class mods are tightly controlled. We're now allowed to replace an LS1 with a 5.3 long block, but aren't allowed to change anything in the PCM for it which is retarded. That being said, the 5.3s that are running F body tunes run just fine, but they are stock. Of course we sniff out the aluminum block motors from the Trailblazers.

[moatsman5000]

Yep its a stock 5.3 motor other than the LS1 intake and custom short tube to 2.5 inch exhaust I built for it. It seems to idle and rev great under no load. I want to ditch the MAF and go SD, will tuning with the autotune ve method help me out? Is it a sound plan to load the manual 2002 F body tune into my ECU and then follow the Autotune procedure below? Also I have not purchased a wide band yet and have the flash scan v 1.2. Should I spring for an LC2 or just get an LC1 for tuning? The 1.2 only accepts analog input but I may upgrade :)

http://home.insightbb.com/~black02ss/AutoTune.pdf

More info:
EFI live 7.5 / Flashscan v 1.2
5.3 iron block
LS1 intake, injectors and accessories from a 2002 F body Camaro
Blue and Red 2002 ECU OS 12212156

[moatsman5000]

And some photos because everyone likes pictures :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Aag1Fhaz_RGcGqPDFshtLyVbqA69xTsJRTcTAaEq0t-XUb9hI-vBVLZ19loxKqt7upMMAuK3GlXC5F55ULQFXf2WX8oSVx_IH1m8 qIbsolqOppp6jLZ3mPhumJgt7md1C6TC6Dv64KBuNWnoKyUhZk MH94rNK3TZca1PlzQeDe2z66epY6A5wde5H7TrIkqPs_gIBUOC XaEelhGbye3lFXFuCvFMy7IaU3FHMbXVq0j-a1Tls8FLzjBwaKhqfoK31HAOinDN44ZfEBRSU8PVMbrzexMAX7 HZ4dN4XQidOvopiRZUfBOXafRK5BQhWh9v98lI02CL0ywz1zVg ZWpI3GZmeG06T-zbBXurd7VVApMKDndwTPfgvAa_s5khLmmzQeQqdw4Y-4Qv6LHD9WUr7QUmzO4TVP7xyBnXj_Vndr7KL1QMLAeOAsrjLhO gtulKUsOaKhNtrNkCdQJ88MdXhWcSHF0GBUH-6Dn1DsIwYglEhCIdjaQSGPnfciZI6y8uqrDY-dUTWK4ACSIH3hrvG9iaXn4QMAopjk-PKY1YIJBwy8xttPrxbFS3jHXz6Kfe9wsy-9xy5Yl2M7BYimrjY9b0YFkKAn5gl29zCCRcc001NoQSIQ8vA9S pr8d6mFXfUFvlKO8-bjykDdCDB_8T-iNO44ZLB_1LKwQAgFkzeN3g5UuWkCGHgWh-4UyWGNVUSrsNQeqs7vgS2YXie2g=w835-h626-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_cGaacLpNVR9hEBcUI_iYjmH24l5cFgtKQI4fYQIq2BbGo2aY8 BfpvoSxJk5oidG-NJxSHJ-X5IXtr-XGIZWfWnOfEePjB4fFjP5KsqftQU_HVaQX5NW-Wr4CJouUPTVIjyEmqGwH26dvIrZFDNijsREJblN_aeli796Sdt w8_4cMpuwOT_d3P2S1J2a2YRfqDu9huLykTMBX9KPJO6XXcggA C3EFH1x0y4jTWp0QHhMPWmH8CG56id1wTftHW8_n4cqFkcAV05 yBU9py1fNYoashkP0ZJ-YyxGReM270Xg2OtP7x2lN-clgH8WRUQMSIVl_RtH5apm-vL2jRYcP1aYuUIbeHVVzO_vi-9sYwCVP0C5xgo4tlbqXUpaFuQBXl8WyR7a8asCry_MPIq7aGPg k_ugsF6peAG-jAVw0-ZSjZnLX28HSxjdxAmOtT2GXuN9VSuDNKjx2h88Wh1q8SMlWWan cEHA4KjTQX8ofb4851rgCejrk026djrtR0eB-D5lLWxGKsgl6GUySNbtGy6YebYf-0xy-OBUNm4xknN20UNw1HjFCvy7WJbPgxNIb3akivQfyrFQUwR58fV MsS6-ZA1Lq6uQVM9fX5GveDwsi4CDw2Rl9-myP1pH6Z-X1oFzwIAwjg9dJck6PSCneII-ni31Yzdxp_mQZaNBORH06uTQRz1aJWGw-05KRbfNp5rr9dqWuI_MaaU_y63s=s626-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WDyFBIgQxcBz3jltFBNcrIOssF8a1SYO31wE0g4kBLjBsSkS5U UhyvVp-AnkLfRmxYm_NbmOjp2RYiGKl5oq7yQ27aug8x060_-nyWCeQMCs6RTrOlSJH4uHOEDYVL_GxNEeJIoVltpYx1SV5Gq2t 6BNt6TnE965i_QI16nJLl_VWiO3Fmo6tFj3Is_VlHF-qT5NNQzoaILz8xfkZMPlpvyZDpnwDEqUpz1z6mxgtXXDgP-LdbOt5hp1UMK615snKuTU3KKKUBs0kFWCd857djPaXME312p8D d5-X37L2tZcgEKsTTzbHkYerQ8vo1h6XRjM7agZfRY5M0ar8jVhWD aawDsKQXENczzbmUr8mXohxmd6ibi3Gj-n5h5Kj7_XVfzJgQ9kI3PngBDUxJaHA6uq7yXSglbMZ2hIWVc14 sWzitVJvrHlZiCowr_H3Pjgb5bKogarNBKfk6_xB2Sq5TScPup cFYQrKTZkA1svU9eoG74-8Lk2ioMc2whFqmV_CLqPsffcTvvunjkHQzJLoy-Zyxp625apZElthqmkpADGjMHCHgr3Vt-896Xi6jEPb-gkw_Zf-kzFCTpgqYV-xBELx7JHYgW3HQ66YZd_9M_LP-Xv9hDMynLi0qRPPNm-QOTX4Z8ND7467gGoc3uGVLnsMDqheMUnXZQzly5hN0NTazNSPH 4ggpn9brnQztDeN_4vafB6d68E6PEy5wU=w835-h626-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Wbxg_aQhmcftChHginVQkUrGD4HECpJzOBhtey9_3Ke9D77GfE E3zc0DLDEoE7-G9mgslns9L8G3xH7GR9z5rXIP6Dq80cx1Yok2Dp0501-VE0LAX2MzTfHc9jY704-XwGWjUY-oG3H-pxI4hTmu5czy23wmwTLe5mk55up5zZC_AE9-_y2iK_XUYDDWUNQ7R-bZ8DpvCjb-zhkeFqhWEHhJlGdBvMBRK0OZmK_ORrCN7AN2N8azt1uANuCkyD clO03mJp-2mAK_Fh-qwWTpxVIiOQPiuImqE7Eqk24oySryMJt2prERVVyo4mmQPnwJA IMwmD_Yt_oxb0YFVSeRtn31d7YYToVzAnYNZekn-AFlCM9qg892R1afKGvZS5HfbRLuP-34lA8HPSXnSpldZKcnWEqBi4mcqNcOHTf63rtfdXL7_7iFnfvt 8cwg1XHCDlQSHDNZNTiojipvwxKV7i1ruSA6aHFifYtnRIyxRA inImusIRzVqIGBlaYPhVB4DvjuzWmjJ6-n_yblr2o4yNCYMDLvUnUHg97fDuknzspnFMgKRw3pS1R5mT1XQ KQNgo7HovygrxsXlzZM4NcqAIHrfi1PJfwwLyPsPTzzmYlJXLi _sKZ_H5eeEkBPz4KfQEjpFV2EQOMs8u9UXD6ObACE8AEQHSjYa-D9EkQKmXZoV4ulC4K-Ji83ww7uLJsewZO54EdqdT8eBKtgAB8=w835-h626-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6YTKYm_LbanF6ybK1BgW9F0gVuqlp2nltPjKjez55-CiEwVeTOz8aGsuZ1QoRK_wa-I3vgOd7eDFU-Vlr5809JfxQdCTAVV1NCmtcYwpuu5e_Z2-BfkuZolk0W5hLvYUvgDm5FuPb494U7HNcVnQDeXh-vFzJHNNMDMRBRoMLEHvv7nY99spuwunyDJOQJ_WR2Mw4eMOJaO PQ96s4eNwIABDLBx8eH9-RQUr7j9qOZ5dbV33lXRMjit74UmF47YV7inoEuxGEtpYEs6jbC 8ptkwsnJ6PzHSDztqCuMnhiHmuYV855cg7emMjpTtuD9B1hZ1-9gfxRJ1h-4dprdJvCFpCBL0gHRsVY9cUH-zhzDR6MnPRKF6yNF7QhhiuD7OV8WY1bX5xweBM2mDsUyJSddUJ vHUZzAM4eRrBEp-0-NaBJxM8yYbZwqknnnABJB4g8AFCgbENskZ3IG3hUhn9tD0erYx fRWpzbzuwEpmJ38JBw51E4engD_pR8iesM4mzIgvpqCwp_ytEu TVVtB57-6f5K_94XEuJzUHOfK3R7Lj7TOtvm-Wbk3_RbzNkk5Mc8nWkKAxFz-YFzPyNez4Jabp7NMqxHb4yP52SYr9LOEQckcDPWa1xGRKRqvUR 33ZrLIfAbre0TObhGaeXTRn5uHcMmi0LyVVEF1hqwOnx95XQiW _vJXhtBQ3qEqkQBDoYKQ6_AAc7OzETelPUanQ=w835-h626-no

And an idle video up to temp!!!


https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPqzYy-CYNVBmd6nJVqjzDYfvbmeB145mAFWiQ-3BlFqCX4yqCufdHxfLwx1oc7Vw/photo/AF1QipO0EXnSvE4FrQ8nHd_qIssi-eOloM0b3WXmRJwp?key=UzVGZkVxcm5jLVFwMmJ1RFJaY0tHU0 EwZHVqNkF3

[Supercharged111]

While some work on the tune will definitely clean it up, it should run and drive OK as is. I jist reread and realized you don't have driveability issues. . . yet. As for the manual comversion you have a couple of options. Option 1 is a full flash from a manual vehicle with the same OS and option 2 is doing a transmission segment swap from the manual OS into yours. The latter preserves the changes you made in the other segments.

[moatsman5000]

Thanks for the feedback, I went ahead and flashed the manual tune I referenced above and it still starts, idles and revs OK. Once I get my driveshaft adapter from Collins engineering I can start road testing. Next step is to remove the secondary O2 sensors and CAT stuff. Is the link below the best instructions on how to do so?

https://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php/17747-Deleting-Air-EGR-amp-O2-codes-in-EFILive-amp-LS1EDIT

[joecar]

I have posted my tune file with VATS removed and a tune file I found for a manual via a dropbox link from this forum somewhere. I was trying decide the easiest way to convert from automatic to manual. The ECU I have came from an automatic 2002 F body (No VATS tune attached). I found a very long and detailed post / link outlining the conversion process however i found a Dropbox link that includes the attached manual tune for a 2002 f Body. Should I just use the downloaded manual tune and start from there?

22612
22613
Yes use the 2002 F-car manual trans tune if you have a manual trans.

I'm out of town again so I did not get a chanceto view your file.

[joecar]

F-car tune work well with or without MAF...

but you should try to keep MAF if you can.

+1 on what Supercharged111 said, it should run well as is.

[joecar]

Good job on the conversion, after the wire harness is cleaned up the engine bay will look stock.

[Supercharged111]

Yeah, once this is all done he gets to figure out how to make the AC work again. :D

[joecar]

lol, that is all part of the fun
... :)

[moatsman5000]

lol, that is all part of the fun
... :)

Yep I love the re engineering aspect of a "motor swap" project. I think I have the AC figured out. I bought an adapter that mounted the E46 Compressor to the 5.3 and retained the whole E46 physical AC system. I wired up the LS AC as original and extended the High pressure sensor lines down to the E46 sensor location on the dryer. I ran the AC demand wire into the cabin and plan to address the reverse relay needs from the Climate control later with a relay near the main fuse box. I am currently working on a custom adapter to mount the LS style pressure sensor to the E46 Dryer location. No need to modify any lines this way ( may need to extend the top compressor to condenser line as it is about an inch short) Hope it works.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nUNQiqi-Mc1MLeGwfzrN7EF7DyQ8kz9g-jVeluzOaAThDN3U2TzAsuO5M29O8Gdzntcwrw9iMI6Sqv5WeAW ROMTHIjiIyCJrioqOnuHxoRs1o-5ZFWgRCDQtt8T9BMVCN32ye4X0qbcyNZjgusFELTb4S0k4IzbJ QHLDSS0uhRUfC8XMPnwpeRWrOjiOstw7FTLUIJ4FAItZWReGyn V7k_nVtHgoHsnCL44IUWaM48PeXWYqRIFEPvj6S_QKuW-hfmXeb5qMHLRUp7HWOnM8sFm4_9-LaLyRBgGRIKksBFQjMAFToBFyTklLaf0ZmyMpGl405N2ftraQw sY6ynATWSxpKM4j8Byojfd3pQkB8qDUj6KGZPcQqIKoYEoKOY-ahq8o3rVSOhNBBrik-FDtTv5gzki1dpAsUTcdODtXLe7RhHJfJJXZnMd4ib5C67kKjUv P2CFs-CcTkT0T3YvDL2gIsi21Uv37SzgNd0yhpq-ZKhJBQ_VFsdlpEjFxzjCDZjw7tJ3ZilL28ocvnFQXG-GIJn0sm6GE3eWj0MU7ToDZNLYZbM6KTQPZnfBqoil3jiQwN9xN IKjS4jKCl6g1-PCRitY3gPTP1526whxEBGNlAvVMUfpaLSa908efqQxWuILGD5V jzumZO4raXLH48DuZrwHKQixA0nyZpTp3SSyKK6FG21hEnNR0i bcCdmyE2aTr86jT5awXmv9OmuU=w1186-h889-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/09Qtxtw0_N3fRv8pkv4h3pJBx1sHPAtko_AAskRDmGYTv0Fyyh fUB9Mmk3yk8MsjFSDwv9NxlaSCNvlppYRPpee4brZdTw2KZwca JvCHxKOvOqnjBHQvgB62u8jpT7nXTgEgHRGnyOk2C8i7zI7rih xpZ7tO1m5BHgedaP-VDuyPF0BY3QMDuHK2TlIA_6LIPUdxn6zt4bRi2o6QbB1HgIuC5 xA-CO-AM9Duu7CMAKV2OKBCh2ZxKXS8xPD-yFpIZrKRVOh7vIYclw4zHjobHEoZfNQNkYXs6WgUOJXWyXlcpp ugoYVhiX81ViHSyF-pAVI28Em91IeviG5uMxIdy6TZQiKgc9o2ee_1-2PlNLzYi3uEgvCoTfyQ-mfz3M_ldPtFVvVWUVHJPhjv41ENzYJOZxEiisQ9HQDHO1PmZaY KmZf2xMx9i5AethQOEXaCH8odfOIbh66pLf5iiEjjVI18mWD82 AOnoJHdJK6iQWPMLrc-mv5pV6F7Bt4tzstL4fL8G4fOOvSATYITnJVeguhDieCrsuMNbt PrLlXy-1pbX1DO_10j7iDH99tBABl5dCX8U8URURxMPbSFvbb9kcLdxZy OkzC9BQx7VyKNdSoISSEddJAucb908sh5aYfQg5sFQHdQmfgjn FBGtMIUg7M-LA=w667-h889-no

[Doc]

I would suggest getting an LC-2 (don't think LC-1 is sold anymore, same thing tho) and doing the autove process. Prior to that since you are using the Camaro OS which is for a 5.7 Liter / 346 CI setup and you are using a 5.3 Liter / 325 CI engine change B0104 cylinder volume from 43.22 per cyl to 40.64 per cyl Second, what injectors are you running? If they are from the original donor motor 5.3 fitted to the LS intake they could probably be 26lbrs? Whatever they are, you need to get the right data for the Injector tables. Motor volume and injector size are fixed values. The amount of air coming in and combustion going out are measured and calibrated (Tuning, AutoVE). You can get away with the slight differences you have now since the differences btw the 5.3 and 5.7 are not huge but, just for learning sake and for down the road...

[moatsman5000]

Doc, I am running the injectors from the original 2002 Camaro (Part number 280155931 / 12561462) rated at 24.8 lb per hour @ 3Bar and 28.2 @ 4Bar based on the link below. I am running a Corvette fuel filter / regulator that should run 58 PSI (4Bar) but I have not tested the pressure at idle. What if anything do I need to change or do I need more information? I assume it would be B4001 but have no idea what to calculate or input.

Thanks for the tip on the cylinder volume change, B0104 seemed to be in cubic centimeters not cubic inch so I changed it from 708 to 666. The funny part is I am not 100% sure I have a 5.3 it might be a 4.8, measuring the stroke is the only sure way to know and I forgot to when I had the pan off. :shock:

As far as SD tuning goes is it advantageous to go SD running an NA setup? Seems like the MAF is a big restriction in the intake. I did not put the MAF in but still can if needed. Any way to just delete the MAF without the ECU going into limp mode safely without tuning?

Thanks again to everyone for all the help so far. I am trying to read and learn as much as I can. Still no driveshaft adapter and it is -6 F here today so no test drive in the near future.

Link to flow ratings:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/317189-ls1-injector-flow-ratings.html

[statesman]

Doc, I am running the injectors from the original 2002 Camaro (Part number 280155931 / 12561462) rated at 24.8 lb per hour @ 3Bar and 28.2 @ 4Bar based on the link below.

Those are really nice Bosch injectors. I've found very little variance in flow between individual injectors. They usually flow within 1% of each other straight out of the box.... no flow matching required.



As far as SD tuning goes is it advantageous to go SD running an NA setup? Seems like the MAF is a big restriction in the intake. I did not put the MAF in but still can if needed. Any way to just delete the MAF without the ECU going into limp mode safely without tuning?

Thanks again to everyone for all the help so far. I am trying to read and learn as much as I can. Still no driveshaft adapter and it is -6 F here today so no test drive in the near future.

Some people love the MAF and other people hate it. Personally, I love the MAF sensor. If tuned correctly it will outperform SD any day of the week. Don't believe all the BS about the MAF sensor being a big restriction in the intake. Your throttle blade is a bigger restriction... let's see you try and get rid of that too. I can see that you live in a place with cold winters... if you choose to run SD you're probably gonna end up needing a summer tune and a winter tune, and yes an SD tune will change that much between seasons when you live in such a cold place.

[moatsman5000]

Some people love the MAF and other people hate it. Personally, I love the MAF sensor. If tuned correctly it will outperform SD any day of the week. Don't believe all the BS about the MAF sensor being a big restriction in the intake. Your throttle blade is a bigger restriction... let's see you try and get rid of that too. I can see that you live in a place with cold winters... if you choose to run SD you're probably gonna end up needing a summer tune and a winter tune, and yes an SD tune will change that much between seasons when you live in such a cold place.

Any good tuning write ups with MAF? The autotuneve seems to be for SD. Am I mistaken?

[Supercharged111]

Have you looked into calc.vet or calc.maft? Do both in 1 shot.

[Doc]

MAF / MAP are just airflow measurement systems. N/A the MAF is NOT a significant airflow restriction. The only time I would consider SD only for a N/A setup would be big raunchy cam and intake. The reversion of airflow can be a PITA on some of these setups. AutoVE/MAF operation/calibration procedure is the same for both just respective different tables in the tune file and MAPS in the scantool. By definition in order to be in SD operation on the GM LS1 pcm you have to have a MAF code by setting Processing Enablers P101,102, 103 all to 1 trip failure; MIL Enablers 101, 102, 103 to "NO." C2901, 2903, 2904 all to "1"

Your 28 lb injectors are already setup with the base Camaro file you are using.

Perform AutoVE first. Then re-enable the MAF and calibrate it.

[joecar]

MAF does not physically become a restriction until well over 700+ HP.

However, the LS1B/P01 PCM has an internal limitation on the MAF airflow at 512 g/s... this usually good to 450-500 HP, and I don't think you'll hit this (your injector size indicates you won't be above ~400 HP), but if you ever do you can scale MAF/VE/IFR to overcome it.

[joecar]

You can try AutoVE followed by AutoMAF as Doc suggested above.

There also is the option of trying Calc.VET suggested by Supercharged111 above...

Calc.VET corrects your MAF and calculates the corresponding VE table from it... we've had a lot of successful iterations of this, but there are a few hard cases where it doesn't quite work all the way (needing extra steps to instead correct the VE).