Since GM tuning is ending...

[LSxPwrdZ]

Maybe touch back on these old P01 and P59 PCM COS's?

Boost control in place of EGR logic with boost vs gear
Launch control
Closed loop wideband control

I know this sounds very far fetched and I'm no coding expert but if they can do all these things with a 32kb Honda ECU from the 90's surely these fancy controllers with tons of I/O can handle it!

[GMPX]

Well the P01 is going to be 20 years old this year, so whoever was interested in LS1 tuning probably already owns a product (with unlimited licenses) to do so.
I personally last worked on the LS1 PCM in 2006 as far as code modifications goes, I think I might have forgotten it all by now :shock:
Anyway, there is pretty much no chance EFILive would revisit and enhance the LS1 offering, I know shops still tune them daily and make good money from LS1 tuning but the is no business case for EFILive to invest the R&D time in to LS1 now.

[LSxPwrdZ]

Very understandable sir. With coding I'm sure you could implement a pay to use scenario to justify the R&D but just wishful thinking mostly.

[greasess]

GM tuning is ending?! What did I miss?

[joecar]

GM tuning is ending?! What did I miss?
It's not ending... just no new stuff.

[Supercharged111]

It's not ending... just no new stuff.

I wonder what's next. Remember when OBDI came out and everyone thought the sky was falling?

[GMPX]

I wonder what's next. Remember when OBDI came out and everyone thought the sky was falling?

Well the thing to keep in mind is GM's security on the new ECM's isn't anything they necessarily cooked up from scratch, it uses proven security methods that have never been compromised.
The only security compromise is likely to come from within GM's own security division, but I also highly doubt that will happen any time soon and even if it did what tuning company would be stupid enough to want a piece of that illegal action?
Sorry but with this new security you can't make comparisons to when old tech came out, it's all very different.

[greasess]

What measures are they using? Even sha256 can be compromised using rainbow tables. Security measures are often circumvented rather than broken. Don't forget that physical access is a huge advantage even though gm is counting on everyone having it. There would be a ton to learn using something like wireshark while a dealer "unbricks" or updates your new vette. Why not put a bounty on it? What's continuing support for new vehicles worth to you. Fly a couple efi live reps to vegas for defcon. If you don't do it somebody will.

[Supercharged111]

Well the thing to keep in mind is GM's security on the new ECM's isn't anything they necessarily cooked up from scratch, it uses proven security methods that have never been compromised.
The only security compromise is likely to come from within GM's own security division, but I also highly doubt that will happen any time soon and even if it did what tuning company would be stupid enough to want a piece of that illegal action?
Sorry but with this new security you can't make comparisons to when old tech came out, it's all very different.

What I was alluding to was, if hacking new PCMs really does become cost ineffective, what's the next alternative in line? Will the standalone market explode? Will the internal combustion engine suddenly become defunct?

[GMPX]

Why not put a bounty on it? What's continuing support for new vehicles worth to you. Fly a couple efi live reps to vegas for defcon. If you don't do it somebody will.
GM pays better...
https://hackerone.com/gm

I think a great comparison to this is the video gaming console market, remember how rampant piracy was with the early Playstations and Xbox's? As each new generation console got released the security stepped up, at some point all the open doors get closed and you have to accept defeat and that technology won the war. There is no 'mod chip' for the Xbox-One or PS4, they've been out for 6 years and still nobody can get around the security to play pirated games which was the whole intention of any security those companies engineered. I would suggest the best digital signature cracking minds would be working on those non stop rather than cars.
Actually there probably is a few people able to execute exploits on these consoles but it's not something to mass market or maybe they are concerned about SONY's reaction (and why shouldn't we be as concerned about GM?)


Will the standalone market explode?
Again they will be shut out by technology, GM has encrypted CAN bus in 2020. Lets assume there was an ECM that could run the engine, nothing else on the car will work.

[Highlander]

WHat specific would you like to see done to this ECM code wise?

[Highlander]

GM pays better...
https://hackerone.com/gm

I think a great comparison to this is the video gaming console market, remember how rampant piracy was with the early Playstations and Xbox's? As each new generation console got released the security stepped up, at some point all the open doors get closed and you have to accept defeat and that technology won the war. There is no 'mod chip' for the Xbox-One or PS4, they've been out for 6 years and still nobody can get around the security to play pirated games which was the whole intention of any security those companies engineered. I would suggest the best digital signature cracking minds would be working on those non stop rather than cars.
Actually there probably is a few people able to execute exploits on these consoles but it's not something to mass market or maybe they are concerned about SONY's reaction (and why shouldn't we be as concerned about GM?)


Again they will be shut out by technology, GM has encrypted CAN bus in 2020. Lets assume there was an ECM that could run the engine, nothing else on the car will work.

So damn true!

[wesam]

Again they will be shut out by technology, GM has encrypted CAN bus in 2020. Lets assume there was an ECM that could run the engine, nothing else on the car will work.

Did they encrypt CAN bus in all 2020 old ECMs like E92 ? or just the new ECMs ?

[GMPX]

I'm no expert on this as I have no official GM knowledge, but as far as I know it hasn't been deployed yet (2020 Cadillac was to be first) and will probably only be on the new generation ECM's because the new system is apparently Ethernet based, not CAN.
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/08/cadillac-ct4-will-use-advanced-global-b-electrical-architecture/

[joecar]

Even with CAN bus, the car makers are starting to encrypt data that flies between modules.

[Highlander]

C8 has an E99. Its supposed to be encrypted bus.

[wesam]

C8 has an E99. Its supposed to be encrypted bus.

I'm very sad about this
this platform will be a game changer if its tuneabe :(

[Aspeed]

So going forward, will my V2 be useless on new stuff besides Ram?

[ToonerSQUAD89]

Wow very interesting read guys. C8 on global B...they really do not want anyone in their network and modules anymore. I wonder if the C8 will be hackable by any means. You could have a standalone ECU work in may cases in a fully stripped out car..