More Newbie help Please............

[FreddyG]

I'm starting to understand the scanner and Really like it, but now that I've set up the PIDs according to the AutoVE tutorial, how do I read the info. I've attached a MAP of my LTFT's, but I'm not sure what to do with them now. I know that I have to make changes in the tuning software, but how do I know how much to change them? Is there an easy way to figure it out? I've read the tutorials quite a few times, but I'm starting to think that I might be in over my head a bit (or maybe just a bit dense).

LTFT_ Trims_Map (http://home.comcast.net/~kickassc5/LTFT_Trims.jpg)


Thank You Very Much! :cheers:

[Tordne]

Well those numbers represent the % +/- that has been added/subtracted to maintain the target commanded AFR. So where you have a value of +2.0 you should subtract 2% from that cell in the VE table.

You can also create a "calc_pid" that turns the % into a factor and use them much like the BEN factor.

[ringram]

Hey Tordne, dont you mean where trims are +2% you need to ADD 2% to your VE in the same cell?

[Tordne]

Yeah, my bad. If the trims are positive it means the VE needs to be raised by that amount. Conversely if the trims are negative the VE needs to be lowered.

Now I have more time, below is a calc_pid which will average the fuel trims and turn them into a factor that can then be used to "paste and multiply" against the VE table like the BEN factor.

This should help some of your noobs that don't have Wideband O2's yet, but I would highly recommend you spend the money and invest in a WB02!


#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- --------------------------------------------------------------
*CLC-00-001
%rich -20.00 +20.00 .2 "({SAE.LONGFT1} + {SAE.LONGFT2}) / 2"
*CLC-00-002
factor -20.00 +20.00 .2 "({CALC.LONGFTAVG} / 100) + 1"

#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ------------------------------------------
CALC.LONGFTAVG F001 CLC-00-001 %rich Fuel "Long Term Fuel Trim Avg Banks 1 & 2"
CALC.LONGFT F002 CLC-00-002 factor Fuel "Long Term Fuel Trim - Banks 1 & 2"

Hope that helps some...

Cheers,

[FreddyG]

What does paste and multiply do?

Thanks again Guys!:cheers:

[Tordne]

Put very simply it is a real easy way to get your VE table right.

Example: Say you were running +2 trim in one cell. By using the factor in my previous post (calc_pid) that would become a factor of 1.02. If you were to copy and then paste and multiply over the VE table that would multiply the value in the cell 1.02, therefore adding 2% to the value easily ;)

Without doing this you would have to manipulate the values in something like Excel I guess. I'm lazy so just decided to do it that way. Well, actually I've always had a wideband in my car, but needed to tune someone else's car LOL.

Cheers,

[FreddyG]

Put very simply it is a real easy way to get your VE table right.

Example: Say you were running +2 trim in one cell. By using the factor in my previous post (calc_pid) that would become a factor of 1.02. If you were to copy and then paste and multiply over the VE table that would multiply the value in the cell 1.02, therefore adding 2% to the value easily ;)

Without doing this you would have to manipulate the values in something like Excel I guess. I'm lazy so just decided to do it that way. Well, actually I've always had a wideband in my car, but needed to tune someone else's car LOL.

Cheers,

Which unit of measure do you use with the VE map? Which is the easiest to learn, ie. the % of theoretical maximum, or the default (g*k/kPa)?

Thanks again Tordne! :cheers:

[Tordne]

No worries mate.

This factor method will work for whichever VE units you are using :)

Personally, I view the VE in "Grams*Kelvin/kPa", AFR in "EQ Ratio". Basically I started out using "% of theoretical" and "AFR" as AFR especially makes more sense to us humans :)

But, I decided that because the PCM uses the other units that I would make the effort to use those instead.

That is just my preference. There is no right or wrong, just whatever is easiest. I built a spreadsheet that equates EQ Ratios and BEN factors in to actual AFRs and I still use that a lot :)

Cheers,

[joecar]

I too like g.K/kPa and EQ... after you use these for a while you get to like them.

[FreddyG]

Thank You! :cheers:

Tordne, would it be at all possible to Please e-mail me that spreadsheet, so that I could look at it? It might help me to try and understand this stuff a little better.

Did you guys fight with this stuff when you first got into it or did it come easier for you? If the secoond one, then I'm definitely envious of you! :)

[Tordne]

I've uploaded the spreadsheet to my server so that others may benefit from it also. Download/Open from THIS LINK (http://www.holdencrazy.com/EFILive/Utilities/AFR Ratios.xls).

Well I was completely new to this a year and a half ago. The learning curve is huge and I am still learning all the time through trial and error (fortunately not too much error :)). The hardest thing is getting your head around the tables in the calibration and their relationship to one another. And then also recognising that there are many ways to do the same thing (in some cases) and that people do things differently.

Spend time on this forum and in the car and you'll get there no worries. Learn how to make custom MAPs quickly, they are your best friend ;)

Cheers,

[FreddyG]

I Really do Appreciate all the help that you guys give me, and I hope that in a year and a half that I'll be at the point that I'll be able to give back to someone who is starting out and feels as lost as I do now. :cheers:

I've been reading everything that I can find about fuel injection and tuning. I've bought a couple of books and read everything that I can (even on the other tuning software forum, because if I can learn what each table, chart, Map,etc. does, and how it effects the system, tuning would come easier............it should work that way, at least in theory).

Are there any tutorials out there that show how to make maps? How do I make a Map to log STFT's? I've kind of figured out how to log LTFT's, but STFT's have escaped me so far.

Thank You again!:cheers:

[Tordne]

The best thing to do with he Maps to to open the standard ones and look at what they are showing you, and how they are made (data, row & column).

Basically the row and column will probably match up with a table in the Tuning Tool that you are wanting to change. Then the data will be the value or modifier that you want to apply to that table.

The Base Efficiency Maps are actually a good example. The row is RPM, the Column is MAP and the data is the BEN factor that is used to correct the VE table.

I am temporarily hosting a couple of tutorials before they go up on the main EFILive site. This one may help: www.holdencrazy.com/EFILive/Tutorials/MAP.zip

Cheers,