OK, now what?

[SSpdDmon]

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=2897

I d/l'ed the newest version of the software and Flashscan drivers. Next, I loaded a stock Z06 high octane, low octane and base spark tables into my friends '99. The minor changes to the idle and light throttle areas were adjusted for in the new table so his cam would idle without surging. Like before, these changes took. Then, we went out and I logged the base DMA and run DMA spark PIDs. According to the "more info" feature, the base DMA is what comes from the high/low octane tables or base spark tables.....and the run DMA is the commanded spark once all of the modifiers have been added/subtracted. At WOT, a stock Z06 table commands 21.99* spark advance. While we were logging WOT, I saw .5*~1.5* more timing than the 21.99* I entered in the table. Also, the base DMA matched the run DMA, which further proves there were no spark modifiers affecting the timing at WOT. Why won't this car run the timing I'm telling it to? The only positive modifier I did see was in the XMSN(?) DMA I think. My understanding is this table comes from a torque management related table. Any idea where to look for this? I used the search function and found nothing. Why would torque management ADD timing? His trans abuse is disabled...he just has the factory torque management settings for the upshifts and my issue with the timing is way before the trans even needs to shift.


This is beyond frustrating!!! ME >>:bash: << Timing gremlin

[Tordne]

Email me the tune and the log if you want and I'll take a look...

[GMPX]

One of the things to check is to ensure your logging speeds are keeping up, make sure you have less than 24 channels of PID data or things are going to slow down to the point where the spark values might end up a little too far behind an RPM update etc.
Also, don't forget the table interpolation, the base DMA value is what was retuned from the High/Low tables. However that leaves a few variables, such as what the octane scaler was at for starters.
Just because the table has 23.0 degrees entered at 2000RPM / 0.56g/gyl does not mean the base DMA PID should show 23.0 degrees, the values in the surrounding cells will affect the DMA PID value too. For example -
At 2000RPM / 0.56g/gyl the table = 23.0
At 2000RPM / 0.60g/gyl the table = 25.0
Between 0.56 and 0.60g/cyl you will see anywhere between 23 and 25 degrees of timing, just keep that in mind when looking for 0.5 degree differences in what the tables show.

To really prove the point, you need to flatten the entire timing table in the problem area so every cell is say 20.0, then relog the base and other DMA PID's.

Cheers,
Ross

[SSpdDmon]

One of the things to check is to ensure your logging speeds are keeping up, make sure you have less than 24 channels of PID data or things are going to slow down to the point where the spark values might end up a little too far behind an RPM update etc.
Also, don't forget the table interpolation, the base DMA value is what was retuned from the High/Low tables. However that leaves a few variables, such as what the octane scaler was at for starters.
Just because the table has 23.0 degrees entered at 2000RPM / 0.56g/gyl does not mean the base DMA PID should show 23.0 degrees, the values in the surrounding cells will affect the DMA PID value too. For example -
At 2000RPM / 0.56g/gyl the table = 23.0
At 2000RPM / 0.60g/gyl the table = 25.0
Between 0.56 and 0.60g/cyl you will see anywhere between 23 and 25 degrees of timing, just keep that in mind when looking for 0.5 degree differences in what the tables show.

To really prove the point, you need to flatten the entire timing table in the problem area so every cell is say 20.0, then relog the base and other DMA PID's.

Cheers,
Ross
Ok....but the problem is, at WOT he's at .84~.88 grams/cyl. Everything in the table from ~4400 rpm is 21.99 in the high octane. So, it shouldn't be more than this - especially since the scaler would only lower it if it was favoring the low octane table. Take a look at a stock Z06 spark table when you get a minute (I used 2004) and you'll see what I mean. Every cell is 21.99. I'm still over a degree higher under WOT. We are logging 24 channels or less though...so I feel the data I'm logging is fairly accurate. Will try to post tune and log tonight...

[GMPX]

I see what you are saying looking at the Z06 table, will wait for the log & tune.

Cheers,
Ross

[McRat]

Yep, a stock Z06 is just 22 deg across the top at WOT. This is not optimum for normal LS1 engines though. You will lose power.

Seems I've seen 23 sometimes in the past, but never really worried about it. Trust me, one or two degrees is not going to have a significant effect at 22 deg. If you go past 24 deg on a stock LS6, you are going to drop power slowly.

[SSpdDmon]

I see what you are saying looking at the Z06 table, will wait for the log & tune.

Cheers,
Ross

I uploaded the current tune, the spark only log from the other night (same operating conditions as dyno), and one of the dyno logs. All of the dyno logs were virtually identicle no matter what changes were made to the high/low octane table. :help2: please...

[SSpdDmon]

:help2: ???

[Kris]

that zip file doesn't have any valid EFILive files in it.

[SSpdDmon]

Hmmm...used WinZip. I'll giver 'er another go tomorrow...damn. :mad:

[SSpdDmon]

Ok...let's try this again...file attached. :)

[Tordne]

Are you going to be logging this car again any time soon?

I'd like to see some of the Spark PIDs removed (perhaps there were some that didn't record anything) and some like TP%, RPM, Grams/cyl airflow. That will allow us to see which cells are being used at various points throughout the log.

Cheers,

[Dirk Diggler]

How is B5919 setup?

[SSpdDmon]

I left B5919 stock at first, which is what the logs are at. Then, I quickly copied (manually) the Z06 values in around the WOT area (.76~.92 grams/cyl). I had to do it manually since the verticle/horizontal orientation of that table is reversed between the Z06 tune and the '99 tune. I thought I was looking at HPT for a second. Either way, with the new numbers the timing still didn't run what I entered in the high octane table. Again, that is the real problem here. The base spark DMA is supposed to be coming from the high/low octane tables (depending on where the scaler is) and the base spark tables (when they're active *under 4mph/no throttle). Under WOT, the base spark DMA shows anywhere from a half a degree to a degree and a half higher than what's in the high octane table. And when I was on the dyno a week and a half ago, the changes I was making to the WOT portion of the spark table were not taking. I added....subtracted....and nothing. For some reason, it's just not taking. What throws me is, I made changes to the left side of the table and they took! That's how I got rid of his surging issue. The spark was jumping around at ~.15 grams/cyl & <2200rpm. I set that area to 42* and that's what he sees when we let off. Wish I knew why it won't do that with the right side of the table. :(

I'll try to get some new logs this weekend when I'm up in Lansing.

[SSpdDmon]

So, I'm up in Lansing this weekend and steal my friend's car while he's up north. I flash it with a few minor changes and take it for a spin. I check the log and what do you know...I got 29* spark advance up top! I have no clue what actually was responsible for it working this time and it wasn't the 30* I was commanding (I think I lost a degree due to intake temps). But, it's nice knowing it's not the 26* I was seeing on the dyno regardless of what I was commanding (18~32*). I think the only thing different between the dyno and last weekend was the fact that I changed the DTC processing enablers to ignore the front O2's (since I was in forced open loop). Last time I was in forced open loop, but the fuel system was reporting "open loop - fault" because the wideband is hooked up with an old NBO2 connector and the NB sim doesn't work. Maybe that's why this was happening? I don't know. Things are moving in a better direction though. Just thought I'd give an update...