Tuning question Road tuning

[ToonerSQUAD89]

Im putting this into two sections, not sure which is more appropriate but here we go, Guys I got a question. I'm tuning my 2010 Camaro A6. I got my BEN Map finally setup E38 controller in Speed Density, following swingtan's guide. Now here are my issues

First I'm driving an auto and has a manual option with the paddles so am I driving in Auto only logging my BEN or do I hold gears and log? Because the Map Ben outcome is totally different if I drive each way.

Secondly applying the BEN doesn't seem as easy as it seems. If apply the BEN's to the cells, what do I do about the adjacent cells? The tune never seems to get tighter only more skewed. Ive turned off P.E to just the tables to 1 Lambda. When I have this dialed in, I can reinstate lambda and do a WOT run and adjust.

How do I get more table resolution in each zone What does zone edge alignment do? I want to know Exactly what it means and what it does.

[statesman]

Some people choose to teach themselves how to tune... and that's alright, but even following tuning guides won't teach you much if you don't have a proper understanding of the basics.

Do you even know what a BEN is, and why it's there?

[ToonerSQUAD89]

Yes the ben is the eq error. Basically going off what my commanded EQ is vs and actual WB readings are. I was a able to figure out the resolution with the zone map settings.

What im asking is that if i drive the car normal and log my map hystogram and save it
Clear, Re log And drive with the paddles, holding gears the map is completely different.

What does the zone edge alignment do as well? Thats my other question

Yes im teaching myself. Ive taken classes so I understand how this all comes together. Albiet im still learning the process within EFI live to apply it. Tuning is not an overnight experience i know.

I dont want to sound like a jerk here but I didn’t ask what a BEN was. I understand that GMs VVE is not easy yet for me to master or most and im trying to do this correctly and not chase my tail.

[statesman]

Then why have you turned off P.E.?

[ToonerSQUAD89]

I had it on originally. I was going to try and dial in the map first without PE and then re enable it.

Ive heard and seen of tuners dialing in The Tables THEN full runs WOT to dial in PE. Maybe this is where my confusion has come in.

[ToonerSQUAD89]

I understand if i set the PE on itll switch with it when it commands PE. However should it matter if i get my tables close to 1? This whole VVE adjustment has got me chasing my tail.

[statesman]

PE is there for a reason. Turning it off is foolish and serves no purpose... if you command 12 and get 12, your BEN will still be 1.

[ToonerSQUAD89]

I had it on for this entire last week and didnt see a reason to change and i agree yes it should read the same guess i watched one too many videos and some fustrartion came in and tried something else. I have my other cal with it on so i already reverted back to it a few hours ago.

Aside from that, and thank you for clarifying the PE. What about zone edge alignment and my original question of which style to drive in? Any thoughts

[ToonerSQUAD89]

I also see now why you asked me about the BEN. Makes sense. But i do understand how it works. What my thinking was about for some reason hitting that cell if im not in PE it skewing my readings. My command is 1 normally and .85 in PE so yes it should follow. My reasoning for turning it off was incase cells somehow got in the crosshairs and changed the value over lets say a 30 min drive.

There is alot of good and bad info out there. Im just trying to figure it out, and with the help of guys here. I know there is alot of educated people here, hence why im here. Please do not be offended if you are, just having a little frustration. Over the last two months ive really been working at learning EFI live. Once i figure out the VVE i can move back to the MAF

[statesman]

Don't worry about zone edge alignment... ain't gonna happen. VVE is completely different to the VE on the Gen3's. VVE is all about coefficients that create curves. Unless you have the correct boundaries, you'll never get the right curves. I've been working for a while now on creating a Calc.vet for the E38/E67... and I still haven't found a user friendly way of getting those boundaries right. I'm still working on it and I still have one idea which I haven't really tested yet, so there's still some hope. :grin:

[ToonerSQUAD89]

Yea the VE table is so much easier. The VVE is giving me fits. If i get the car to operating temp, drive it and log driving in D and then try it again shifting manually the BEN map is completely opposite.

So manually editing is the only way along with Ben #s? And setting correct boundaries can you elaborate on how? You mean matching the correct KPA to zone?

Also if Going back to the MAF when i do, you log the parameters in that guide and make a hystogram map of what? I have not done the MAF yet, i see in the guide was Pids to select that was it.

[statesman]

Understand this.... SD sucks at the best of times. Don't put too much effort into it unless you intend on running SD full time. Until you have a better idea of what you're doing, I'd suggest leaving the factory VVE tables and boundaries and just tune the MAF.

I'm not here to teach you how to tune, but I will say this..... Make sure you always have PE enabled. Make sure you're in open loop if you're tuning exclusively with wideband. Make sure you apply transient filters. And always log for KR when you're logging.

[ToonerSQUAD89]

Up until today i was always had PE enabled. Just went to try something different and went off course shall we say from some frustration to try another method, yes i know now i look at it made no sense now. Yes open loop of course and the rest of what you mentioned i have been doing. Im just trying to set myself up and most importantly know what parameters im changing. I plan on taking in alot this year and its a tedious process. I really want to get the VVE table done correctly though

[joecar]

To reinforce what statesman said above, NEVER turn off PE... make sure PE is sufgiciently rich, and make sure it enables promptly... and look/listen for knock.

Disable one air source while correcting/tuning the other, and disable all forms of trimming (including OL STFT).

Transient filter is very important. Try to tune on a loadable dyno rather than the street.

[joecar]

For E38 and E67 try and see if you can use SAE.LAMBDA if it works (you may have to check its sense).

( GM.AFRATIO_DMA (_M) does not always work correctly on all ECM's )

[joecar]

Don't worry above the VVE zone boundaries, they should already be in the right places.

[ToonerSQUAD89]

Transient filter are they different to apply in V8, i know in V7 how to but v8 not so much

[ToonerSQUAD89]

Update...i am figuring it out. I got a cruise parts of my map to be steady at 1.00 to .0998. The manual blending is the real struggle especially looking at a blaring red background on those tables

[statesman]

Update...i am figuring it out.

It's a steep learning curve, but with perseverance you'll get there.

[ToonerSQUAD89]

It's a steep learning curve, but with perseverance you'll get there.

Yea definitely. Taking the time to experiment with things in V8 and also tune tool has helped alot. Still have a lot more to explore but its a great feeling that its all coming together and understanding it. Once i do a few more logs focusing on different sections itll get dialed in and ill do the MAF and then re-enable it to have a MAF+SD tune and ill re enable trims to help with any deviations that do occur out of my control