What is my tuning goal?

[eboggs_jkvl]

OK, I have the wide band and I'm at the point of flashing the SD tune in and start logging the MAPs . Swell... I do this for whatever time it takes and get the changing values down to 1 or so in my MAPs and I have been updating the Primary and secondary VE tables as I go.

Ok, perfect tune, this baby is rock solid! Right on! Perfect VE table(s).

Now, in my mind, I'm telling myself that I now should take the perfectly tuned VE tables and copy them over to my "original" tune, flash that tune back in and then plug the MAF back in.

Is that the goal of this exercise? Get the VE table(s) tuned to my particular engine parameters and then use the MAF to compensate and adjust for the temperature/climate variances of the changing seasons.


OR

Is it to always be SD and constantly tune as the seasons change? Personally, this seems to be a lot of work when it can be done by the PCM & MAF.



E:)

[joecar]

E,

Immediately after the VE table is dialed in, reenable the MAF sensor and auto tune the MAF table (it may well be very close already);

I run around in OLSD most of the time (So. Cal. weather doesn't seem to effect my tune), and sometimes CLSD.

I have made a token attempt at tuning the MAF table, but I haven't spent alot of time on it...
it works just like Auto VE Tuning, except the map is now 1 col (say RPM 0..8000) x 85 rows (MAFFREQ 1500..12000).

My goal is to eventually run COS3 or COS5 (which are available only for 2001+).

J

[eboggs_jkvl]

Ok, that seems reasonable. If the MAF is too complicated for you to tune in, I'm sure I'm a dead duck. I drive in the winter and it's known to get in the teens and I've even gone to Ohio with snow and ice conditions. Would that cause a problem with the SD tune as I'm going to be getting data in Florida and it'll be in the 80 and 90s most of the time?

[joecar]

I don't experience enough of a weather change to know how resistant to weather change OLSD is.

[Tordne]

Down in new Zealand it is fair to say that we have a reasonable difference between summer and winter. To qualify that I have logged intake temps (IAT) ranging from 1*C (34*F) to 40*C (104*F).

I use IAT as an example because it directly relates IMO to ambient temp, and also it leads into my suggestion/recommendation.

I have been using the V3 (and now V5) EFILive Custom OS for some time, actually the day it was released :). I have found that using the A0014 table to apply a multiplier to the VE table keeps my BENS very good through these vast differences in IAT.

[eboggs_jkvl]

Holy CHIT! Everything worked! Wideband gave me data, SD mode seems to be in place BUT, DAMN THING WON'T IDLE! I hate the work-around when I come to a traffic signal. Slip into neutral, brake left footed, hold idle up with right. Guesses on how to get it to idle? Normal idle is 850 and it works well at that number. I just die when I come to a stop.

[Tordne]

Log RAFIG airflow from cold start to full operating temp and then apply the correction to the Desired Airflow table. This will help with surging and hanging idle on coast to stop. Well, it is one of the first things to check anyway ;)

[eboggs_jkvl]

I'm not surging or hanging on the idle. The darn thing just flat goes down in rpm and dies. I had the surge and all of that nonsense cured to a rock solid idle at 850.

[eboggs_jkvl]

RAFIG is selected. I'll do some logging and see what shows.

[Tordne]

Does it die while stationary, or on coast down, or after slight throttle application? It might be related to the Throttle Cracker being decayed too quickly?

[eboggs_jkvl]

I pull to a stop, depress the clutch and the idle just keeps going down quickly until it dies. THink of the rpms being held by the throttle to 3000. Let off the gas and the rpms drop down... well it just keeps dropping to off.

I just got back from another try at gathering data and the idle held fine this time but I couldn't drive the car. It was missing and stumbling. It was NOT a happer camper. Give me a few minutes to gather my screens and I'll show you what I did.

[eboggs_jkvl]

The car ran well (except for the idle) on the initial SD tune setp. My VE tables were multiplied by15% from the stock tune. After running and recording, I got these two MAPs, averaged, filtered and ignore empty cells. I then tossed these into the SD tune with the "Paste and multiply with labels". I loaded the primary and backup tables that way.

This time as I tried to gather additional data the car idled at 850 but was impossible to drive. It stumbled and bucked so badly at trying to drive slowly out of the housing plat that I gave up, stopped, reloaded the stock tune and hooked up the MAF. I then could drive the car home.

Is there anything else you would like to see?

Elmer

[Tordne]

Assuming your Desired Airflow table is reasonably close that does sound like it could be the Throttle Cracker decaying too fast. Perhaps check/reduce the rate in the B437 and B4319 tables.
Perhaps also log the GM.IAC_TF_DMA pid (under the Idle section).

[Tordne]

Looks like you are running 30% too much fuel based on the BEN factor being 0.70. Also you mention backup VE table, you must be running a 99 OS? Have you considered upgrading to a 01 or 02 OS, or do you not have the Commercial version? If not it would be the best $150 you could ever spend ;)

[eboggs_jkvl]

1998

[eboggs_jkvl]

I saw that 30% and I feel the car is running too rich but the reduction in the VE tables really made it run like a dog.

Thinking further, I took the original VE tables and multiplied by 15%, this MAP said drop it 30% so I actually netted a 15% drop from the stock tables and it didn't like it.

[Tordne]

Oh :( Well not an option then.

Try out the Throttle Follower suggestion first then. I know a few people that have had that same issue. I assume the 98 OS has those tables?

[Tordne]

I saw that 30% and I feel the car is running too rich but the reduction in the VE tables really made it run like a dog

Did you run through the calibration of the LC-1 so that it is making the correct calculation of AFR based on output voltage? Just asking cause that will obviously affect the AFR readings, BEN factor etc. And, I've come across a couple of guys that didn't calibrate right and ended up chasing their tails big time...

[eboggs_jkvl]

Ok, are we still talking "idle" or "stumbling"? The 2nd time out the darn thing idled ok but wouldn't run worth a snot.

[eboggs_jkvl]

My cal was O2 sensor out of the pipe in open air. I haven't recalibrated it since that first time. I need to let it sit overnight before I press the button and try a recalibration

[Tordne]

By calibrated I meant more the configuration of the LC-1 voltages to match up with the LC-1 Tutorial and what is preconfigured in the "sae_generics.txt" file.

Idle and stumbling I think are linked. If the Throttle Follower airflow is decayed to quickly it can cause the car to just die. The result is that the RPM drops too quickly and the car does not recover before it dies. If you reduce the Follower decay rate you should see the RPM fall more gradually/slowly and may keep the car from dying.

[eboggs_jkvl]

If that is the Innovate LM programmer settings in the LC-1 Installation Tutorial on this site on pages 6 - 9, I made those settings via the serial port cable.

[eboggs_jkvl]

It's after 10 PM here. Geezers need down time. Please note that the idle WORKED the 2nd time I ran on the SD tune. What didn't work was the driveability.

[Tordne]

Do you have LM-1 or LC-1? I have a PLX WB so don;t have to mess with voltage settings or calibration for that matter ;)

Feel free to hit me up on MSN if you want. This is good for my post count but it might be easier to have a semi real time discussion?

[eboggs_jkvl]

Ok, back in the saddle (so to speak).

I have the LC-1 Innovate wideband.

Recap of situation after talking to "Doc" on Saturday, my driveability issue may have been due to the fact that I was tuning in Open Loop and "NOT" zeroing out the fuel trims before I tried to drive the car after updating the VE tune.

The wideband said I was "rich" and I couldn't agree more so the reduction of the fuel was what I expected. SInce my initial setup took the VE table +15% and the first MAP run dropped it .70 (30%) I deduced that I netted a -15% reduction in fuel on the first MAP update.

Some more questions that have come up...

How in the world do you fill 50 counts in ALL OF THOSE FIELDS! I see that as nothing short of impossible. With that in mind... IS there a "logic" to entering estimates of what the missing fields should be to get the VE table more in a smooth line?

If I get a really stupid large change, would it make sense to average the "spike" by working on getting it reasonably in line with the surrounding cells?

[joecar]

Ok, back in the saddle (so to speak).

I have the LC-1 Innovate wideband.

Recap of situation after talking to "Doc" on Saturday, my driveability issue may have been due to the fact that I was tuning in Open Loop and "NOT" zeroing out the fuel trims before I tried to drive the car after updating the VE tune.

The wideband said I was "rich" and I couldn't agree more so the reduction of the fuel was what I expected. SInce my initial setup took the VE table +15% and the first MAP run dropped it .70 (30%) I deduced that I netted a -15% reduction in fuel on the first MAP update.

Some more questions that have come up...

How in the world do you fill 50 counts in ALL OF THOSE FIELDS! I see that as nothing short of impossible. With that in mind... IS there a "logic" to entering estimates of what the missing fields should be to get the VE table more in a smooth line?

If I get a really stupid large change, would it make sense to average the "spike" by working on getting it reasonably in line with the surrounding cells? You cheat a little...

after a few iterations of filtering < 50 counts, set the filter count to 15 or 10 and try again;

the cells you don't hit won't matter since you'll never hit them...

having said that, a session on the dyno will allow you to fill most of the cells;

as for spikes, I tried smoothing but they just came back with further iterations, so I just don't smooth anymore, seems to run very good, BEN's at 1.00+/-0.01 (OLSD+PE) for my daily driving (stop/go/pt, on ramp 0-70 wot, and 100 mph blasts).

[eboggs_jkvl]

You cheat a little...

after a few iterations of filtering < 50 counts, set the filter count to 15 or 10 and try again;

the cells you don't hit won't matter since you'll never hit them...

having said that, a session on the dyno will allow you to fill most of the cells;

as for spikes, I tried smoothing but they just came back with further iterations, so I just don't smooth anymore, seems to run very good, BEN's at 1.00+/-0.01 (OLSD+PE) for my daily driving (stop/go/pt, on ramp 0-70 wot, and 100 mph blasts).


Ah, OK, 10 or 15 would get me some data. I can see that logic. I'll simply NEVER get data on 6000+ as my rev limiter is at 6250 and I simply don't run that high in the rev band.

As I am turbocharged, will this give me grief under boost? Another way, does the settings in my WOT table need to be reexamined as I will be running with a lower VE table number?

[joecar]

I don't know anything about boost, other than it's safer if your VE is over rather than under.

[eboggs_jkvl]

GOing to give this the old college try on THursday. I'm heading over to DPI and put it on the chassis dyno to be able to get samples in most of the fields. I may be walking home afterwards but I'm gonna give it a whirl.

Elmer

[eboggs_jkvl]

Well, the old college try fell straight on it's ass. Battery is toast, so replaced the Optima with an Optima. Good so far. Now the TPS is toast. Replaced the TPS with a good TPS. Good so far. Fuel pressure is falling. Replacing the walbro255 and POS boostapump with an Aeromotive 1000 and a fuel pump controller. Parts due in on Tuesday.


Sigh...

[eboggs_jkvl]

Nudder update...

August 2nd, Triple artery bypass and subsequent "human" downtime to recover from the surgery. As I sit, I still have staples in my chest (might come out today) and I've got 3 or 4 more weeks of "recovery" time and then some re-hab.

Needless to say, the SD tune is on hold.

[Tordne]

Holy shit mate, get well soon!

[Black02SS]

Get well soon E!! Drink some more martini's and you will be fine in no time. :)

[joecar]

Elmer,

dude, :bawl: you just about floored me, mate...

hope your surgery's all good (no complications),
get well soon :cheers: (do martini's help with this),
we'll wait for you, no worries mate... :banana::banana:

Cheers,
Joe

[Blacky]

Wow, life really is a lottery. Glad you're still here, I hope that your recovery is 110% successful.

Regards
Paul

[eboggs_jkvl]

Thanks guys. I got the staples out about an hour ago and I have a MUCH brighter outlook on recovery now. A major "relief" is getting the stainless out of your chest and groin. I'll hit this thread in a few weeks when I can actually get behind the wheel and drive the car.

Elmer

[TAQuickness]

Talk about Shinola! Glad to hear you're still with us.

Although, I don't know if I would mind having a stainless steel groin :D

[GMPX]

Best of luck with the recovery, please keep us all posted on your progress.

Cheers,
Ross

[BowlingSS]

Thanks guys. I got the staples out about an hour ago and I have a MUCH brighter outlook on recovery now. A major "relief" is getting the stainless out of your chest and groin. I'll hit this thread in a few weeks when I can actually get behind the wheel and drive the car.

Elmer

Hope everything is going OK Elmer.

Bill
:cheers: