Turbo tuning for the first time

[moatsman5000]

I finally got my turbo kit built and installed and am turbo tuning for the first time. I upgraded to cos3 and installed a 3 Bar map sensor. I followed the Auto VE tutorial however it feels like after about 10 to 15 min the car gets back into closed loop. After I get up to temp and start to drive the tune feels pretty good and is very rich as expected. I run 11:1 and 12:1 most of the time but after about 15 min or so it starts to settle in at 14.5:1 and seems to try and hold that all over the place. Can someone look at the attached tune to see if I am in open loop? Also the spark timing is all messed up, it feels like spark is wayyyy too late burning on the way out throught he turbo. I am thinking of taking a spark map from a CTSV as a starting point. Is this a good or bad idea?

Here are some pictures of the kit I built:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JEJPdg6ww2PdxRc0_FSN2BAk0h7sWN7qraqRT28MJ36jG4U9JD lz2aIMeAUnRhhow_MpWspa2yrlt44GZbldZl6Wq2Q-C25pdMeEtuFMw0-_vCGjtCh7UAPvjUvAmo7WMSYWoHvdfJO2TI1WM7FJUDQc3ul9w gW1l1SjCa-jIpQjkpizQO7Xw3LtEgB-vMmg4h2-edL64ci8TAKp1380vb1LLFCTMFxybqrqT8DXu6UYBffHU88Pt5 itryOHb8RueQXwgnYmg7gZqeOBSAcxf3CIzY5yirLUDVcFf_A4 uGcbsASEDAX-44T2_dAFyCI0brxaRbm8yR_K036Ek_UGE31o457lVMuLeMlWUT 0Oz-sJLZOqg_m2DqUpLLR8lwp1z73XwpS3oSB8PtQyS8m8Vfl1km4-BDCd6ALIoFGnViNUm2sHDrdmgvjCkSLHd8gwx4j3DDdknI3IBX cRM9b47w4w3vveqpm8BAxUHhuUC5s-faZJ3VYNFTM4o3I_XhOCbbEvNW6zt1EokzJ3HqY0OMUh7K1eyc MBfcGnF2gXIwORNknybLflVSLZ4wB_HUay5OBVD206-OzT9WvXIA9_CElvg1b4Rs9xhp-rAB6T2l4RBjGNlxbQ5Cpr7tnE5qDZKS5HddOrZbAzflGOru4dO jAdLkUhqRBzS8zjekMp1KTxRedWLB-i-lcrLIhteU5jN9EuUZK1nXn5MHz43lspNbbeHDe8Bc9rEmVpaaH rv6ykg7twtkF9-ooy=w1064-h798-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JptvbEEASrgKZLt8_N5eDr-wVlLaSOObdWTRTXsSWAwDEWTWKUqxv6NyTooNNtvOpmavt2aBc 2XngvLwEP0NjA5-4hEBWBtsNXSqCjtauRttTXnOb2NqqniKYfAY2cgJwTRqBWykrp fGRtM1lhIyjkVbFV0zAV-3gMPu1HEVpVDdnjrcFuMi4KAOlR6BdUtWBpZlhAmkmBfXBZSjl bOI1QJx7c3Xd_XU27wHZYd-CUo1GFy3L2XC_lW-h4QGXUol1sGmF27jU6uQ8s8shCfLY4S5Wi3MIjhgVv-7y1hSeLvt8aiv84iPOgr8AUpEZiGnO1O84F3WbcNg9nOAPCgRb _npgM7C_FjGS4haTjpCWIDNC8omtz0x00eodHBC6j-BrTwDmKkfx3KVpGOQLSoS9vC2S10KVufSjS_OypiDVqSSFfRJi zz7H5DEONUwsVygkprVf7vaxpfkFj3LJUBDD36Zczwdt1v7cp0 x1wA_AuI_QvVlFxFjssd962g66cKyG3aPeGeTmGaPjorqS-QqyD8QM6f8TJ4fqWbu8-BAP9buqhtT6CyQ0IwFTC6Cu0uSasHWJO9rgtMZqFhJKO1Pn4Wd HtwOycsT7U2tHBFXUgNRZKB9VzHIG0jmxTnZycnF62bw5Dg6mp nDGEwB6Q28hdpYAdocihUZiwvxyxZC98tatUMmcpL6K22IAJvV UwJ5WVLH2_htH3Kgy6eve7LdwSr8c91_uS4uZ2vzlrE1HojW-sy3PB4Kz3m4=w599-h798-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Kjcu1gTEPksulQWeulGk-wgKF2yhEfKFlc-IXTII1N-D2C-dRvk6l-ySlea71TM_1HpfU1EimvRDY4VehFBYMhm5I3oQnijJY-q-tOSikKYYtJTBrpuKD1UhIcaa5oTH3scebDJr-uVZ_QzEeL3-koWZbmZC1png03mEGHyGydKisvAVIr322px9qIPNLGUOb-cpmB1la00YStvMVXyBCykzSeRGOzZ3u_t3UL9vcPYu9bnVblvL gAD1gGGZwVtABB4CJYqJGNP1ccT2QLIeDXrF9-RDQENuJBNAqmQV0VbOU9P-tNIdwFu_SumY7Zo5WuGnqHuC0lPu810pMTDTmN30PT8xlb6mbQ HZcgmF2JlGLAkDM9YloSEREtoS07L7QccjNx7IiC_5iEkslMxS RsP2RwJyVnagG2H6zopBCM-nk64d82oO0EPdbCVg9lYl3UofupQKTIfBvXVWm4ARBKIekYfqk pSXZVUbGoXjDLKz_Azz2fH-LOt1-svaoXkpz5S_xOfbeMrd2JaZWwrIcrv4y0rgvUJ0qBCc2EJIEac EwIaBJeeRYxo-RUcXdjzI0KUNVgQtOulcDJH6u6M9SdtfiZzNMxRbjD5F7eg0M6 piKMfjpxB1KKqwJSL02H-QpSk_3c0QlOQ6sMwUQUqyAYQ9zWA6QIzrYB9aaKppAxo7iRESt eDgk7g8hnwjf5DUk-2C_OraOBdKyomD9J7yeWy1nEjDVUtksC8WUiCjDtSGWDWDRUhp b7Fj=w1064-h798-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sgrf9KlQ8w4LHfhhwQzb473oCC0K9is1YBgktnjMpwsCB_ysER VBKNfRxhsS0y4bBJIzVl0i_VAr25sERj4565cXROSrTeJN5bvE ejadGiOqsfU1zzTMg-04yK0bK1fqddJ6dOsdwBid9JMbkKQ9r6aCTtu3GRgSkUw7eE_g BXnY8AQ4Zy7t-4OrftPBz0qcN7S5X3Yl4RMUHA08_qvQJ2EQlM32ZsrknzWWeMY HQM5HFzM_px9BtOB_bXqHNNElxSk7ZhOKFn7i6EzSndTHxWBee BaBrNWSKk8czn7ribVW3nksvwNxZoN0HejlmwqnTF_HkoqVYLB 2zQpqzgyzdH0cg_OSyEWhK1Tms10wYWjFpTq7NvP1ZaMvg_FII VOHP9k4_JAAvC0pcO2I_42f6oRo2t2lmnoOys9PFs-Hg8sbLpq-2cPAjdCgrfTIQrdoTODBNLSfjgZq0CbBgqBwelUPGsEhKTsf9w q2UNzg4RjFg_aq7cg3FcIhTYo-OGVwTVhka38W4J-rowif4SbMp9EeW3CYYEZ4WZtTiOfZQNEBte_x6bakSfvFlA_eF xHxG_7K6emjGTUyzsQKn8u0Q1Oa3ED75bT_3FJlnmIuSl1I5Br Nj4AlMxyEgqFsQyvQQIJT5dyWFrA9v7Xq6e3t51DSDIQzq6Kl4 p7KtBVMrukude8gMdD_wvgMw68oX2ZtATOynV2kUpj9yvvzxRF BXbvpW1QPtVvfonHwxN2_QNJ5cvoPTYwCo6By=w1064-h798-no?authuser=0

Couple of assembly:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ygQRp9Vvx0kNuKw-v8VAWJtIOAvKVN1O9h7lbTNlZeB0Cbi-p9sXpsx5he3IPb6SU54HzEEBrd8ai3j_0ZGxyGRKZXsKfsGybh oksOt63mqCcx2X4wjmF3yen0S3hXWHphwqFT4dqsBOyW_327xb GkFwbfsf2eBYrkIpyH4bowqd2Mu4DAe9tFY081CP_P5y5Ezv6X krIb2kv5_tkDCdrDMalIIfstAYzlZY8oJ4xhgtR-Z8rypM3Ec-gw44LH0i44jjXfbmmszdO5t_-T9IxGzkE9uBaoswYPLmius7JvIJSM_MYQZ1tj0m2xqw_EwaMHI FBMeP30PEk8aRyKHS0PMjSzs8hTtOxqTlYIQ0pwO-wlHlwmbDZdgb2uO2kiKKkurHeknx-n49_3zfYgHnWG4aAq0bi96oQcrjoJln2t9cib9ohGQinIf9dZj nV-RsKiG6p1zswOLw5taax78w4o59f6VeIgawdwy6Q8jyxoqS8Sa2 EbSyXMZ-ZKHYps8Ya4BYAkWHJ0qe1BMgElJ6jn3NR3Zg_fuaDEYo8-5UwFAxeEV-ATB0ZdnhR7pbLqLVYZiuGga70EYJeqw8RGMKQdrZqIzoD-gpTdzrrmeac__NwCri5naws_X5WkexjTvihi7P273Kndr0BrHb I866pxcJYsGOhhCeBbVqGfwnghNF7WQ6TJWbz9xU-c3acJjyOywZmWXyUlGwALhvTa2nWGUAXuGFByCJ46Hb6k1cAwG nOuHZ5dJMU-X6=w1064-h798-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qP4SY0a8UQ-lU7TKPpkvDDBOaO7RRc8O3KLp94C4C9ADvfbtuzuRDMMFMEMn7 V5nKpP0Xn48PWOH0RNaroItj-1ld4IwJ-db_tYCMn0cY_xDziWRUIPbdfZucq-SFrnV0k9erD3hMypr_m4uYTFMoB2qDFmeWeDME-QypMD-6tlPNwqOZBE0CTnWB8pM9JujkVJ21HUT6tOeC7NDKWGfOgiQ3Y 1xu1gHVwF2bd2fZp0c1a5K4LY0IPd9P0eTx5I11mNJXLjjU-AbsgEqh_uALVH-Hrc3_tjVjbYmk_atjHn1e3pO6fq1ZtMadsJXUXAKqdfKeSWL0G mXhKkVM9wWI-2zoG_VkFIhSezYLJdu7Vf8qahbvStWIuXaR-DhlF7fvkij3vtQ-ieONHbJcTnBfoaQbbc0HyiGGZlVZu-bCHF1mAqMsm4PobWnU-gIDXyjim4s-Fj_gQr_jaJGetUEGuJINNJagc7vbvE3-uydRvCa9VaOTuoi87U8RRY77kOAjWOI3VBcPmxFyp1RX_tF2pD ZzDlKsW7ujz9RbyJslIF3Zn6SFDLNx7-l0hx_cSd7p5OTQjql7EBwnoCgsUePGJBSXovFUZax6dOgUY0Kp rGb6C8jvFjmS1tKfqZBaAvnCNvYZY27OUNYcrdwVbV3xdjg41p YMMbdGKImNjdbntxKtpYN-GkZR87tQLlw2nFzEWuVHIBfNH1rPsiGDbWFd31UvnQ1icgaQd_ ccuQJPF4r8vDKpOxmS_9=w599-h798-no?authuser=0

Here she is all "done"
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GYaUqZGXPG2sQpUNeUxWxEO2Dpbt6fC-tLfJTOwbXPTjI-T8m7y2oLBCdxZKs7SYYQuqFvLf4ufQNOoFP7CMzrgN-yuruwMEwX2I5O7NqsogkhVXRmGN3lb59Lubx3VoO0t2kTWxYee X3b_dmu-GTiJlYmnagBOocYEqjkz_Kif2CNHk6iSsrncszdRxUDTMdXcyf RV9ekVfZOSGE0Xn7LMiLpwSf9K7wstjT_6UJVvh9d9ULcAvU8q p907K3Hkirm7UYDqp6E2hf_ivbmZgUdy2-9PyQgeWlqw85tbWa1Vr61Gr4qinJMh4r0CUAU6Vl3WVbDkz6Tm VL1_1QcyNjQydiC81x7gMpRMXmsCC5j3PixwGMP2FLR0rvUV_p bIUrjD2WWNxyzUm_xzCHVww8pU0FXXK79St004GoAN1iKP5QhQ KeWmN_0x8phwDfyJkmphXUmr6pvZrY_D2UA2HozZKJeYyjaQ2_ sfkWm8TRE_FYzO4nOElCLeIjU-0up1VPVeYLVCuLCK2dMCOJ7ZrNuXfOZ0CeC14mCCU4hH6lpR3M 9BCFVaidicm6MdH-TZ8an9_IoCfGzrhlYNOiqH94dtfkeiaDWwlN8PPmOnEtUva1pm IorQ-t9kSDKumakaKcaVQZSe_f33ldHz5Am0UL5QZsVtOocvxFl3b73 kXVOVtITmxibbPn7NDS2NwcqqqDt-AZpnLjhfEQxyOrWcuQzetqy2HCnfJZoJznKKO5Rw8CzxqjiXQI R64=w1064-h798-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ahNuNATMXw3rNAbcItlDQ9OO0DczIqSJvLwjEZ_PQYATFNLA87 9Yz8_2a88ACFFyVFkMRZ6BHag4kHJ_2jJ5XcTErkXdLQbDqqXe _RR69vJqF13xoqGzBkZIOthAb1KDNj6yV_wULnYpt_I5YtZm13 qbcLN1VcnyH6XiQzY5nGChmVw010Q5hfBgTtu3XUptHYesZhdA rJ7jhODNMJpyDWyRPm6_xtwdv7KsBL5JKUzgx41gO2XcoMnYEl 20oOz45LI-_70-K35R-esjnftCbImvhjEmV5W_qn6YUR82gNW9EL5vQvx-6REV6Vt86N3uOBmNLLQtSqlWph7kRmZKWPqeYeKohdVPYZ2vWG dHp2Eg9ydhzJe3Nz0dxEnArg-oSlQcl2ISExZWae_dzV0jN-ucQMYmP-u-KH0-bd2i5uruY4KW8JLv3fnLkiG7uULvdxeRnSkv6v_hlqXxvbsiYm 7j238eaR5rG9c8i3Srr52nhBt8_DuWz0dyhWmnXunyHj4_WtBq zRufjviK9NNS0EzRAlkNvv0usKladb73udZA4QasWpO2jer4zU ieKLc1Msf5xrK20iHXVREQIWsqLJI5MvZVJk9LWZqGB84BpKiN TPMd0eQpf59CuActyypI9WySzfMgR5nBt7lQnKnZKM8zY0aUWp g0GJi28GKpl7tzD-M3u5kTyCCHu9O6vIGT9XfMUIKtqRcZjzSNfDzAJmclIJEORXPO 89KxPhJ1dBUtM7ZOUFFODVaz=w1064-h798-no?authuser=0

[Tre-Cool]

ok, quick glance.

u need to change b3647 so that there are no 1's. set to 1.01 if in EQ. .99 in lambda or 14.5 afr.

max out b4203 also


what injectors are in this & do u have vacuum line to the FPR?

any other engine mods?

[moatsman5000]

Thanks for taking a look Tre-Cool!!!

I have no vacuum regulator, I am using an inline Corvette C5 filter / regulator with the LS1 stock fuel rail / intake . The injectors are a set of "flow matched" decapped E85 injectors (ebay) from a 2006 Tahoe (I think). When changing the injector parameters I used the attached spreadsheet for flow data and took all the timing data from a 2006 Tahoe tune. The 5.3 LM7 engine is bone stock block and heads with the LS1 intake, water pump and accessories and has an unknown amount of miles on it.

Last night I copied the high octane spark map from a stock CTS-V tune into mine and WOW WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! This thing gets up and goes now. I now only have some detonation / stumbling in very low RPM and high boost. New tune attached (before your suggested changes)

Once tuned in should I always stay in open loop or should I switch back to closed loop?

Injector pictures (I like pictures)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/evPuYw8vKtiIU08nzC-LK37vQWRTp9UDRtSbkLcq0PTrTEauZ8HokhWgVgKT3LfUzhpHc jscVqnAm8O2H3LAqUjr_1jyLvP7Yld8yAT5lxxtYEVzOSjL6gQ yYa5kYAWiGKhP7AlLWKypqP3FyBYYpOKGVQwt4Hwm91_Zeoa-SGa2sgc76nrEX4HQ2TwR1yQFxbE4x4HfPXdqLtRKoj36k9QuvL BP72X0G1Xupt2Z3yyqIqgqwUBDYuw1qLJwUNCIi-ZDMSjheNOcSGb63uuZ7d4G18afFQZx5OFhhK-Kahu68tgmzmA4ehRDRn6T6v9ZPFfyFjj-iMvq8ewL9jPSs4Md3BroqG6hh-l47pqyyOwKFcTD6GFSp6vsnAvAkH_341H9fEGUea7oAN2F35iK p6HMLawDou1D1GhZL3O25MmNbi1zd29bDXIARQe2sMT0Q41gQ-5WUVsolyjcmbXRtSqW6ipbUItxsokfrL81XycC7VvVQkt3YrcU CFBUaHrcc4yjJEtSQfnJ8T1FBHTFeZq0DTzcUfV71In2s4aODJ trAhpnTTuck109Xs4VK0gmrVolj6DTisHvwPoe1as0zB3OdtPM epqAPbv0812WDjLWZkDwuJnYdBsyfXwpKC1elnS1iNYMU2HUdZ qRDt1J29gz8dd5QMPrQ30SgGWEiW5exzYZfX3ojFPCwRwhc0_r iXF5hll6Gzz16N0jouijURm-3uEGXptJpOQu_eUkV7H7KANC3z0lArFs=w1250-h937-no?authuser=0

[Tre-Cool]

because you have 2 turbo's you can still run closed loop. generally single turbo's wont though.

To tune the ve you need to be in Open loop at all times, not just when in PE.

depending on what your iat are like. I would take an easy 5 degrees off the entire map. remember the cts-v is a forged piston motor. yours is not.

actually, have a try with this.23296

i've richened up the desired pe fuelling & the throttle enablers, since you can be in boost even with 30% throttle. also below 115 kpa you will be using the open loop tables. then above that it switches to the pe enrichment.

you didnt say if you were running e85 & the amount of boost.

[moatsman5000]

Thanks for the map update Ill look at what you changed. I was really rich already. I am actually thinking of going back to the low octane cts-v spark table and changing my map scalier slightly to lean the whole tune up a bit. When I first moved from the 1 bar to 3 bar (changed scalier from 94 to 305), my key off MAP values were slightly low. This change should give me a bit more resolution up high in the spark table as well right? Now that I am tuning and learning it seems the MAP is important for spark as well since it is based off of cylinder volume and that is derived from the VE table. Did not think about the dual turbo impacting closed loop but it makes sense because fuel trim is done per bank right? I have also only ever had my logging map set up for rpm and KPA with wideband o2 as the data field, i recently switched that to knock however just learned via you tube last night I should monitor knock via rpm and grams per cylinder to align with the spark map. I created a new map last night to log rpm / grams per cylinder.

Ill attach some data logging to a future post once I am able to do some tuning runs.

I am running 92 octane pump gas but would like to move to e85 once I figure this tuning stuff out. I think I also need to upgrade my fuel pump (really should now)
My boost goals for this stock motor is around 8psi however I spiked to 20 a couple times after moving to this recent map. I want this motor to get through this summer however I am starting to build a 5.3 for boost, to replace this one once I blow it lol.

[Tre-Cool]

i updated your map with the 3 bar figures i use.

you dont want to mess with that. if you run out of spark g/cyl in the maps. it's easier to modify your injector flow rate & thus your ve maps.

typically i would setup the tune to max out the 1.2 gcyl with 8~10 psi. then use the custom efi area to start removing timing based on boost.

[moatsman5000]

I can't open he tune file. I get a version error. I am on 7.5

[Tre-Cool]

im using v7.5.28. should be the latest public version.

also with the fuel reg, i've heard of far too many people where the factory reg fails or just doesnt work properly from the get go.

can you put a fuel pressure guage inline somewhere to monitor it?

i've personally seen, tried to tune a car where the pressure would slowly build up pressure. you could hear the pump noise change as the pressure increased, so that was the give away

[moatsman5000]

I just upgraded to 7.5.28 and can open the file now. Looks like you made quite a few changes. Before I was able to open it I took 5 degrees out of my tune and made the other changes you recommended and went for a log drive yesterday. I also turned my boost down again (waste gate is just barley closed) however I still hit 15-18 PSI and I haven't even gone WOT yet. The most I have given it is 75% throttle or so. I don't think I am being very nice to the motor every time I come off boost over 5 PSI or so I am blowing blue smoke and pushing oil out of my seals and valve cover breather. I just have a single small air filter on the valve cover PCV lines. Is this a sign of bad blow by, too much boost, too much spark advance or something I am not thinking of? I have plans to build a better motor for the car this coming winter but I would like to get this one through the summer and fall. I attached the tune and log from yesterdays run, can you take a look and give me some feedback?

[Tre-Cool]

that log looks ok for boost. 150kpa and seems to hold. so thats only 8psi. good base to start with.

i sent u a pm with my contact details, you need to setup the logger a bit better, your logging a bunch of stuff you dont need.

[moatsman5000]

Thanks for the PM, I hit you up on your email.

[joecar]

Looks good, as if from factory :cheers:

[Highlander]

What sort of fuel is this? noticed you are definitely not going into PE that easily. Even then you are commanding .87L which is not correct for what I am sure you want to achieve. Your goal as a calibrator is that what you command is what you achieve. I would start with a MUCH flatter boost ve table. The way the airflow from VE calculation works, it takes into consideration the map that you are in. So its not a straight up airflow, only a a coefficient. So a much flatter curve will get you there faster.

I would log less parameters. For instance, you are speed density, so you shouldn't log sae.maf. Keep the channels to 24 and it will log at 10Hz, which is decently good data.

Hope I am not being captain obvious.

[Tre-Cool]

i gave him some help and run down on how to set it up correctly. unfortunately it was a bit too late & we think the engine has broken a couple of ringlands. he was having issues with a bunch of different map sensors giving weird values on known configurations.