Struggling coming from HPT to EFI for logging

[dzlunlim]

So for years iv been using HPT for gas tuning and recently with everything im doing in efi for diesel stuff I have a turbo ls truck i want to learn to tune gas vehicles with in EFI. The thing that has me the most confused is logged data in maps, Im used to just copying the data say stft % from the ve table histogram, and going to the tune and pasting and multiplying by %. I can not for the life of me figure out how to do this with efi scanner. Theres so many differences its hard to grasp. I read about ben factor, and then i see paste settings in the map where I figured when i selected multiply when i ctrl+v. But it gives me crazy numbers. hpt has many predefined maths but efi has none. Iv tried reading through tutorials and the help docs but nothing is really jumping out to me where i need to start. Any insite is appreciated

[dhoagland]

I feel ya I'm in the same boat.
Its like being proficient with Windows then Switching to MAC same but very different.

Wish I could help. I got it to where I could make MAPS but have not got into filters yet.
I did make a custom pid and that helped me kind of get the idea of what they are doing.
I'm sure its much easier than we are making it. (Though you do seem to need more knowledge in "Functions" than with HP)

If I get sometime later I'll see if I can give some Tips
What ECM? E38?

[nonnieselman]

Im the same way.. but ive been using EFI since 2004 and have been helping buddys with HPT and its a struggle for sure.
What PCM are you tuning? I have a ton of maps and such already made from tuning turbo trucks over the years.

[dzlunlim]

Mostly p01/p59

But in hp also did a lot of e38/e67 stuff as well.

All of the tutorials i see are for 7.5 and i guess im just trying to get with the times on v8 here lol

[Tre-Cool]

I'm the opposite, i use efi for most of my tuning/logging. hpt editor for stuff we don't have. very rarely use the scanner because it irritates me that they never linked the 2 like we have in efilive. i.e highlighting data from scanner to editor.

[nonnieselman]

Mostly p01/p59

But in hp also did a lot of e38/e67 stuff as well.

All of the tutorials i see are for 7.5 and i guess im just trying to get with the times on v8 here lol

ah yea V8 is not my favorite. Almost no info out there and this forum doesnt have much traffic.
I tried to help a buddy with V3 and V8 and couldnt figure out how to do the wideband input so just went back to V7.5 on my interface box.

[Blacky]

If anyone has a "how to do something" question with the V8 software question and I don't see it (reply to it), then either ping me via private message with a link to the thread, or submit a ticket to the help desk.

The concept behind BEN factors is quite simple:
The map (or histogram) needs to log data in the range 0 to 2, where:


0 = -100% correction required.
1 = 0% correction required.
2 = +100% correction required.


The BEN factor PIDs are calculated PIDs that ensure comparison data (such as the comparison between commanded and actual AFR) is logged in the range 0..2.

When you copy/paste data in that range (0..2) from a scan map to a tuning map, if you use the "Paste as error correction", then the software will apply the (0..2) data as if it was a -100%..+100% correction.
You can temper the correction amount by applying a % weight. For example a 50% weighting would apply the 0..2 correction -50%..+50%

Regards
Paul

[dzlunlim]

Is there any insite, tutorial, or anything on creating a ben factor pid to use STFT to correct maf, ve etc? Every post I look at has people posting calc_pids list and im not sure i even see anything like that when im in v8. I found out how to create calc pids, in v8 no issue- just not sure how to turn them into the "ben factor" mentioned

[Blacky]

I'm pretty sure the calc_pids you see posted around are for the old V7 software.

You can create the corresponding calc PIDs for V8 quite easily.
If you have any V7 PIDs that you want to try in V8, post them here and I'll show you how to convert them to V8 calc PIDs.

Regards
Paul

[dzlunlim]

My only issue is im coming from hptuners so I wasnt even using v7 to log prior to have anything to converter. The big things for me that i used often in hpt was stft error for maf, and stft error for ve or vve case dependant. Then obviously the WB error which typically I use the aem wideband. Im sure im asking for a lot here lol. but If i seen one made for say a stft maf correction i would probably be able to figure the rest out on my own. THank you

[Blacky]

I have no clue how HPT is configured to use STFT to tune the MAF - I've never seen/used HPT's software.
If you explain what you want to achieve and how each step is computed, then I can show you how to replicate it using V8.

[dzlunlim]

I will try to word it correctly....In HPT you set up a simple histogram (or map in efi lives terms). Say you want to plot your STFT+LTFT error for dialing in your MAF or VE, since this is what the vehicle uses when in closed loop. Ill just use the stft+ltft maf correction for example here.

You record maf frequency and go make your log. The same fuel trim values it records them in plots in your map. You highlight your data, copy, then go to the editor then highlight the areas you logged then paste special and multiply. It simply multiplies the percent you logged against the current data to give you a new value. If your current cell is 5.0 and it had a +5 fuel trim, the new value is 5.25. I understand that the BEN factor is set up to do this as well. But I am struggling to understand how to setup a calculated pid to do the same. How can i set the fuel trim % recorded in my map to be in BEN factor so when i paste by correction in tune tool it does the same.

If i could figure it out I would be estatic. I did attach a few screenshots if its any helpful. The math pic is pretty simple but all i can really help with. I really appreciate the help!

[Blacky]

Assuming you want to sum the values of the short term fuel trim and long term fuel trim and then use the distance that summed value is from zero as the error correction, then do this:
24035

To create the scan tool MAP, Open the tune file and select the entire MAF table and select "Copy with Labels".
Then in the MAP -> Properties, for each of the Row and Col tab pages, click on the [Paste] button the paste the labels into the table's axis. That will re-create the same size/shape table.
24036

The logged data in the map should all be between 0 and 2.
Copy that data, then use "Paste as Error Correction" into the MAF table, like this:

Before:
24038

After:
24037

[dhoagland]

I think what the OP is saying (and what I'm struggling with) is many available predefined Maths and the ease of creating your own in HP.
Both in custom logging and graph filters.
-Picture 1 shows a list of predefine Maths for creating graphs and charts (you obviously need to be logging all necessary channels (pid's)
-Picture 3 shows the start of creating a user defined math. Choose a Math that isn't taken, clich new variable, click insert/change parameter
-Picture 4 shows the list of available parameters (if you click on the gear only the parameters you are logging in your channels are available) I left this open to show all available and chose o2 sensor bank1 sensor1
-Picture 5 Shows the parameter I choose, a drop down for units, the special functions available
-Picture 6 shows the first completed parameter in my Math
Start with next parameter for your Math function
-Picture 7 shows an example of a Math function for VVE error based on MAF error to tune MAF and VVE at the same time

Don't get me wrong, I love EFI. It helped me with an lb7 where HP would not.
I'm trying to give you a look into what I'm seeing just starting out here and what I'm use to

I hope this represents what the OP was asking

[dhoagland]

I'm the opposite, i use efi for most of my tuning/logging. hpt editor for stuff we don't have. very rarely use the scanner because it irritates me that they never linked the 2 like we have in efilive. i.e highlighting data from scanner to editor.

I just figured that out last week, its bad ass!!!

[dhoagland]

Assuming you want to sum the values of the short term fuel trim and long term fuel trim and then use the distance that summed value is from zero as the error correction, then do this:
24035

To create the scan tool MAP, Open the tune file and select the entire MAF table and select "Copy with Labels".
Then in the MAP -> Properties, for each of the Row and Col tab pages, click on the [Paste] button the paste the labels into the table's axis. That will re-create the same size/shape table.
24036

The logged data in the map should all be between 0 and 2.
Copy that data, then use "Paste as Error Correction" into the MAF table, like this:

Before:
24038

After:
24037

Okay
I posted a response here last night that was flagged for review by moderators.

If I did something wrong can I get an explanations on what was unacceptable?
I showed screen shots of what HP people are use to when creating filters and pids.

I also said it was posted to show what the OP and I are use to in hopes to get some direction on how to do the same here.

I take it as someone who is use to working in windows switches to Mac... Pretty darn different, but at the end of the day accomplishes the same thing

[Blacky]

I don't know why the post was flagged. As site admin I can see the post.
I took a quick look, I have never used the HPT software, I don't know what the names in those screen shots represent, so I can't won't attempt to translate those screen shots into something for V8.

If you can explain:

what each term is for,
where the data behind each term comes from,
why each term is necessary,
what the effect is that you want to compute.


then I could probably show you how to achieve a similar outcome using the V8 software.

Regards
Paul

[dhoagland]

Thanks for responding, I'll definitely do that as soon as I can.

[joecar]

So for years iv been using HPT for gas tuning and recently with everything im doing in efi for diesel stuff I have a turbo ls truck i want to learn to tune gas vehicles with in EFI. The thing that has me the most confused is logged data in maps, Im used to just copying the data say stft % from the ve table histogram, and going to the tune and pasting and multiplying by %. I can not for the life of me figure out how to do this with efi scanner. Theres so many differences its hard to grasp. I read about ben factor, and then i see paste settings in the map where I figured when i selected multiply when i ctrl+v. But it gives me crazy numbers. hpt has many predefined maths but efi has none. Iv tried reading through tutorials and the help docs but nothing is really jumping out to me where i need to start. Any insite is appreciatedYou do it the same way...

you create a map of say STFT by RPM by MAP, then you copy it (the whole map), and then on your VE table (displayed as %) you select the whole table and do rightclick->paste->paste & add.

Of course, there are other ways, the Calc MAFT thread, it uses V7, but it can also be done with V8 (the calc pids are created interactively).

[minytrker]

I wish I could easily just transfer all my stuff from 7.5 to 8. I have years of maps from 7.5 and tried making some in 8 and couldnt get any to work. So we just require our customers to use 7.5 for everything still if they use efi live.

[Blacky]

I wish I could easily just transfer all my stuff from 7.5 to 8. I have years of maps from 7.5 and tried making some in 8 and couldnt get any to work. So we just require our customers to use 7.5 for everything still if they use efi live.

You can copy/paste maps from V7 to V8.

24078

24077

Regards
Paul

[minytrker]

Thanks!!! I asked a year ago about the same thing and even offered to pay for someone to convert all my stuff to V8 with no luck. How do I get my calc_pids from 7.5 to V8?

[Blacky]

Thanks!!! I asked a year ago about the same thing and even offered to pay for someone to convert all my stuff to V8 with no luck. How do I get my calc_pids from 7.5 to V8?

Sorry, there's no easy way to covert your calc PIDs.
If you want me to convert them manually, I'd be happy to.
Send me your V7 calc_pids.txt file to [email protected]

Regards
Paul

[Highlander]

man this is service!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i can tell you... Paul is the most pleasing programmer i've ever known!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Highlander]

You can copy/paste maps from V7 to V8.

24078

24077

Regards
Paul
You can also copy with labels from editor and easily paste in v8 scanner.

Super cool stuff.. V8 is super powerful

[GregJR]

You can also copy with labels from editor and easily paste in v8 scanner.

Super cool stuff.. V8 is super powerful

Alright! I will tip my friend about copying the maps to V8! We'll finish first the installation of the brake pads and xd wheels (https://4wheelonline.com/XD-Series-Wheels.298383) on the truck this week before we can start working on the tune.

[joecar]

You can copy/paste maps from V7 to V8.

24078

24077

Regards
PaulThat's great :cheers:

[Highlander]

I have been using EFILive since its inception. V7 being the best for a long time for me. When moving to V8 the struggle was real. I can tell you this software is amazing. V8 is ultra powerful and has a lot of features that make it the best.

You can copy and paste maps easily between Tuner and Scanner and between V7 and V8. Stick with it. It's worth it. The charting is just nice and it does what you expect it. The data on the Charts is real and not inferred which is a huge deal.

If you have anything you need you can email/pm me.

Thanks

[joecar]

I agree with Highlander.

And +1 "Stick with it. It's worth it", it really is.

[dhoagland]

Assuming you want to sum the values of the short term fuel trim and long term fuel trim and then use the distance that summed value is from zero as the error correction, then do this:
24035

To create the scan tool MAP, Open the tune file and select the entire MAF table and select "Copy with Labels".
Then in the MAP -> Properties, for each of the Row and Col tab pages, click on the [Paste] button the paste the labels into the table's axis. That will re-create the same size/shape table.
24036

The logged data in the map should all be between 0 and 2.
Copy that data, then use "Paste as Error Correction" into the MAF table, like this:

Before:
24038

After:
24037

This helped a lot, Thank You

Below are various combinations I used for Fuel Trim error. I used them for MAF and VVE MAPS and all but the last one seemed to work.

In the last 2 I used all trims from both banks combined. By dividing by 2 at the end of [DAN.FTRIM_STLT3] it seemed to work.
Is that the correct way to do it?


[DAN.FTRIM]
0=|-- DAN.Fuel_Trim
1=|--ST + LT
2=|return (pid("ECM.LONGFT1")+pid("ECM.LONGFT2")+100)/100

[DAN.FTRIM1]
0=|-- DAN.FTRIM1
1=|return (pid("ECM.SHRTFT1")+pid("ECM.SHRTFT2")+100)/100

[DAN.FTRIM_STLT1]
0=|-- DAN.FTRIM_STLT1
1=|return (pid("ECM.SHRTFT1")+pid("ECM.LONGFT1")+100)/100

[DAN.FTRIM_STLT2]
0=|-- DAN.FTRIM_STLT2
1=|return (pid("ECM.SHRTFT2")+pid("ECM.LONGFT2")+100)/100

[DAN.FTRIM_STLT3]
0=|-- DAN.FTRIM_STLT3
1=|return (pid("ECM.SHRTFT1")+pid("ECM.LONGFT1")+pid("ECM.SHRTFT2")+pid("ECM.LONGFT2")+100)/100/2

[DAN.FTRIM_STLT4]
0=|-- DAN.FTRIM_STLT4
1=|return (pid("ECM.SHRTFT1")+pid("ECM.LONGFT1")+pid("ECM.SHRTFT2")+pid("ECM.LONGFT2")+100)/100

Next will be Filters...

[Highlander]

Most of the data from v7 can be easily imported into V8. I think the only one is the Calc PIDs.