COS5 Question????

[BowlingSS]

Over the weekend I setup COS5 using a 2002 Cal file and then copied/pasted my cals into the COS5. When I enable A0003 my car will not start. When I disable it everything works fine.
What should I set A0003 table to start with? I think it was set to 500. I changed it to 1.0 with no help. It tries to start but nothing unless A0003 is disable. I also set A0005 to 3000rpm.
I setup a MAP in my logging. Can I log this info and then copy/paste the info into A0003 even though A0003 is disabled? I know it would not use the info until A0003 is enable. Should the numbers be around 1.00 in this table; just like the BENS?

(A0003)= enable
(A0004)= 105 kpa
(A0005)= 3000rpm
(A0006)= 101 %

Thanks.
Bill

[BowlingSS]

Anybody know...
:beer: :beer: :beer:


Bill:nixweiss:

[Tordne]

Not sure I get your questions... Are you asking if the TPS VE Table should contain 1.0's like BENS?

I set the following (to run exclusively off TPS VE):
A0003: Enabled
A0004: 105
A0005: 8000
A0006: 101

But you need to have populated the values in the TPS VE Table before enabling these!!!

Check out this post: http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.php?p=27713&postcount=130

[Kris]

initially you will want to disable A0003 so that you can populate the A0007 table from your already good VE table.

You will do this by logging and using a map to record the VE values from the main VE table into the appropriate cells for use with the TPS/RPM ve table.

1. Setup a map column/row settings to match the A0007 table
2. Set the parameter in the Data tab of the map to VE Table Lookup Value (g*K/kPa)
3. Go for a drive and try to populate as much of the table as you can. and then copy those values into the A0007 TPS VE Table (make sure your Units for this table match the parameter that you records in the map)


Remember to turn DFCO off, it will make for some very funky values in your recording. Also I would start working with a smaller region of the TPS VE Table and work your way up from there.

I have mine setup as such:
{A0003} Enable
{A0004} 85.0
{A0005} 3000
{A0006} 30.0

I originally had my values set for under 2500 and below 20% throttle, but i found that under normal driving conditions I would go above those values and it caused a hesitation while switching from the TPS VE Table to the Main VE table.

Small steps... small steps.

[Kris]

And once you've populated the table and you're ready to enable it and make adjustments, just change the Data parameter in the map to your BEN Factor.

[BowlingSS]

[quote=Kris]initially you will want to disable A0003 so that you can populate the A0007 table from your already good VE table.
You will do this by logging and using a map to record the VE values from the main VE table into the appropriate cells for use with the TPS/RPM ve table.[/quote

How do you populate the A0007 table from my VE Table?
Here is my TP/RPM VE table. Does it look right?
Thanks for the help.
Bill

[Tordne]

Read my post above. That has the step by step of what I did :)

[BowlingSS]

Read my post above. That has the step by step of what I did :)

That is what I followed. What throws me off is what this table has to do with the standard ve table.
record the VE values from the main VE table-- What does this mean??

Thanks,
Bill
:master:

[Tordne]

That text is quoted from Kris' post...

Below is my post (tat I linked you to:

I've had a play with the TPS VE and can give you a quick howto (as I see it) for using OS5 and the TPS VE. I have stock cam so I really only did it for a challenge and to work out how to

1) You need to have a good VE table - with BENS on or very close to 1.00.
2) You need to change your preferences to view VE Table in "Grams*Kelvin/kPa" units.
3) You will need to log a new PID called GM.VETABLE_DMA under the Tune section. Basically you will need to log this PID to build your initial TPS VE table.
4) Create a MAP that has the same dimensions as the TPS VE Table and use the PID above as the Data.
5) Go for a drive and log. You will need to try and hit as many as possible points in the TPS VE Table MAP.
6) Now copy/paste the values in the TPS VE Table MAP to the TPS VE Table in your OS5 Tune file. You can try and experiment with the copy and fill function. You can probably also use the Linear Fill functions as well.

That my friends is how I did it. After the initial build of the TPS VE Table then I changed the TPS VE Table MAP created above so that the Data was now using the BEN factor. This allows you to fine tune that table going forward

I didn't play with cut in/out points for switching between TPS and standard VE Tables. And for initial tuning purposes my suggestion would be to run exclusively off the TPS VE Table as this will allow you to fine tune/correct it. I imagine to use the OS5 ongoing you will need to apply VE correction to both tables at the points where they are active.
Hope that helps some?

Cheers,

[Highlander]

why using the dma? simply populate it as BEN... it should work out flawlessly... I get NO hesitation going from aphan to SD

[Tordne]

Cause the TPS VE Table needs actually VE values, NOT BEN factors. Once you have built your base TPS VE Table then you convert your MAP to use BEN data for further refinement/correction.

[Highlander]

what i did was copy my main ve table to the TPS ve table.. car started up fine... no more than 5 minutes it was close to finished.

[BowlingSS]

what i did was copy my main ve table to the TPS ve table.. car started up fine... no more than 5 minutes it was close to finished.
Your main VE Table is RPM vs MAP and the new one is RPM vs TP. My numbers are not even close to my VE Table. My TPS starts at 1.1 to 2.x. My STD VE Table is like 26.0 to 100. What am I missing here?
Right now I have something major wrong because with TPS enabled my car will not start.:eek:
Can someone take a look at my tune?
Thanks.
Bill

[BowlingSS]

Cause the TPS VE Table needs actually VE values, NOT BEN factors. Once you have built your base TPS VE Table then you convert your MAP to use BEN data for further refinement/correction.

I think I understand. You setup the table by using GM.VETable_DMA (RPM vs SAE.TP). After you get the table built you use the BENS to make correction.
Now if my car would just start. I probally have units wrong. OK I just noticed my Main VE table was wrong. Now that looks more like my TPS Table. Car does start now. I turned off TPS and will try to get table filled below 3000RPM.
Thanks.
Bill

[Highlander]

No wonder your car won't start... Try this....

[BowlingSS]

No wonder your car won't start... Try this....

I found my problem last night. I had the VE Values in the wrong units. I was logging the right units but my tune had % instead of gK/kPA.
Thanks for your help. Did you change anything else besides the TPS VE Table?

Bill
:cheers:

[BowlingSS]

Cause the TPS VE Table needs actually VE values, NOT BEN factors. Once you have built your base TPS VE Table then you convert your MAP to use BEN data for further refinement/correction.

How many hits do you need per cell to build a good TPS VE table?

Bill

[Highlander]

Try the file i posted...

Do a small drive, filter TPS transient data and AutoVe with it... you will get it driveable in less than 10 minutes... After that...

My best suggestion is: go with someone... see the pattern and adjust in small sections using some blending.

I changed your timing table, your cranking VE table, your TPS VE table, Main VE Table... I would have changed many more things.... but its best to log the car.

[Tordne]

How many hits do you need per cell to build a good TPS VE table?

Bill

I generally hide cells with a count < 5. When making my TPS VE Table I also used the vertical and horizontal fill feature as there is no way I could hit them all.

[Highlander]

Actually I never hide cells... unless they look really suspicious... I make my trips short.. that was one hint i got from Mr. Wait4me and it has really payed off...

[carneb]

I've been playing with OS5 the last couple of days. It's going well, other than a problem at cold idle. When cold, the car idles at 17 - 18 AFR! Once it warms up it drops back to normal. When running OS3 I didn't have this problem.
I increased the VE of the 0% TP, 1000RPM cell but after logging a drive the BEN's force the VE value back down. Anyone else experience this?

[bK]

I've been playing with OS5 the last couple of days. It's going well, other than a problem at cold idle. When cold, the car idles at 17 - 18 AFR! Once it warms up it drops back to normal. When running OS3 I didn't have this problem.
I increased the VE of the 0% TP, 1000RPM cell but after logging a drive the BEN's force the VE value back down. Anyone else experience this?

I sure did, just this morning I tried a COS5 with the TPS VE TABLE OPTION A0003 enabled. W/B reported AFR was 18:1 even though Commanded was 12:1 and it was running like a pig. When I started with this tune last night it was running fine on a warmer engine.

I've been running COS5 for a week and have the A0007 fairly much mapped, BEN was close to 1.00 everywhere. This morning was my first attempt at a cold idle. Quickly turned off the engine and disabled A0003.

I noticed that in warm IDLE my MAP was sitting nicely around 30kPa which = 1.100 g*K/kPa on B0101 Main VE Table
But on Cold IDLE my MAP started around 55kPa which = 1.490 g*K/kPa on B0101 Main VE Table

Any ideas on how to fix?

EDIT: Increasing the values on the lower temps on A0008 Open Loop ECT Commanded has helped alot.

[BowlingSS]

I generally hide cells with a count < 5. When making my TPS VE Table I also used the vertical and horizontal fill feature as there is no way I could hit them all.
Can you still generate the table with TPS/VE enable or should you keep it disabled?

Bill:cheers:

[Kris]

I've been playing with OS5 the last couple of days. It's going well, other than a problem at cold idle. When cold, the car idles at 17 - 18 AFR! Once it warms up it drops back to normal. When running OS3 I didn't have this problem.
I increased the VE of the 0% TP, 1000RPM cell but after logging a drive the BEN's force the VE value back down. Anyone else experience this?

I had similar issues with my car, in fact... I had it VERY bad (18-18.5:1 AFR until the car reached 170+ temps).

I recently changed the ECT Enrichment table values in the startup temps to 1.1 and while I do still get some lean condition at startup, it decays off TONS quicker than it did before.

Why it helped i'm not really sure, since the ECT Enrichment table affects the Commanded AFR, and since I have no fuel trims... it really shouldn't do anything, but it does. :)

The ECT Enrichment table i'm referring to is the one in the Custom OS calibrations. My .tun is on holdencrazy, i believe it is the only Pontiac tune listed.

[BowlingSS]

I had similar issues with my car, in fact... I had it VERY bad (18-18.5:1 AFR until the car reached 170+ temps).

I recently changed the ECT Enrichment table values in the startup temps to 1.1 and while I do still get some lean condition at startup, it decays off TONS quicker than it did before.

Why it helped i'm not really sure, since the ECT Enrichment table affects the Commanded AFR, and since I have no fuel trims... it really shouldn't do anything, but it does. :)

The ECT Enrichment table i'm referring to is the one in the Custom OS calibrations. My .tun is on holdencrazy, i believe it is the only Pontiac tune listed.

I have the same problem. I will give it a try (A00088)).
Bill
:cheers:

[Highlander]

Guys....

Look at a stock b3605 and you will see what AFRs you need to hit and the way you need to adjust the a0008. 14.7/AFR there will give you the EQ ratio you need to put there.

[carneb]

I adjusted A0008 and don't have the problem with lean cold starts anymore. I have found another problem though - very lean on warm restarts. I know that it's a common problem with SD tunes but my idle was running at 18:1 AFR! During normal driving and idle my BEN's are close to 1. It seems to be the high IAT from heatsoak that is causing the problem. Does A0014 still work when AlphaN is enabled?

I also had a problem with surging on warm restart, I suspect because it was so lean. I now have A0003 disabled. :frown:

[bK]

Does A0014 still work when AlphaN is enabled?

It sure is. I don't have dramas with AFR's now using A0014 & A0008 with A0003 enabled.

This link will give you a good idea where to start you A0014 table http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=2270&highlight=a0014

[ringram]

You could look at afterstart enrichment too.