Pull timing with bidirectional controls to test for KR?

[Xtnct00WS6]

I'm getting KR and it seems to be mostly in the upper RMS. I'm getting 9.9 KR at 3600 RPM, but then it fades to about 1.1 from there on up. Could someone post some table numbers so I could pull timing at 3600? Maybe I could use the bidir controls and log while using the bidir controls? Could someone help me figure out this KR?

Thanks!

[joecar]

Xtntct,

Your log has the information you need to pull some timing...

Make sure Scan Tool and Tune Tool are working with the same units.

In Scan Tool make sure it shows the correct vin/os/trans.
In Tune Tool enable the option for data linking and runway highlighting.

In Scan Tool, put cursor on the KR spike, and highlight a few frames around it (click and drag);

In Tune Tool, open the Hi Octane Table B5913 (if running MAF) or the Lo Octane Table B5914 (if running SD);
here you should see highlighted (crossed highlighting) the timing cell(s) giving the timing for the frames highlighted in the Scan Tool.

You can now select those cells (click-drag) and subtract some timing (enter negative value in box in toolbar and press "+/-" button next to it), and smooth/blend around a little.

Also, in the Scan log, check your AFR (actual from WBO) and if it's lean, go to the PE vs RPM table B3618 and richen the AFR; and also enable the PE with a little less thottle B3616 starting from the highlighted RPM (3600).

If your actual AFR is off from your commanded AFR, you may consider doing an Auto VE Tune.

[Xtnct00WS6]

Holy crap...that's awesome! Thanks joecar!

I couldn't find the data linking, but I was able to turn on runaway highlighting and got this!

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e66/extnctblkws6/Spark_High-Octane_table.gif

That looks pretty out of wack to me! How much should I subtract to start with?

Thanks!

PS. Soooo glad I went w/ EFI Live.

[Xtnct00WS6]

By the way...You can see what I selected (in grey) in the Scan tool to get the selection above in the Tuning tool.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e66/extnctblkws6/Scan_Tool_Map_Selection.gif

[joecar]

In the Scan Tool map, click on upper left box (where the headings intersect) to highlight all cells, right click, "Copy With Labels";

In the Tune Tool timing table, click in upper left box (where the headings intersect) to highlight all cells, right click, Paste->"Paste And Subtract With Labels";

This will subtract all those KR amounts; log again and see if it KR's.

[Redline Motorsports]

It didn't look like he posted enough of the timing table to see the commanded timing at 3600/ .60 cyl. I have seen that knock at 3600, well below peak VE, can lean towards more false knock the actual. Without know how much timing is being commanded its tough to predict. You could as a check throw 15 degrees of timing in the cells and see what happens. If you have headers and exhaust, check to make sure that nothing is rattling around that could cause false knock.

Joe, you posted something that caught my eye! When in SD the pcm ONLY uses the low-octane table for timing????:nixweiss: Makes sense since SD is a backup to the MAF system and the PCM thinks the car is in trouble. Is this correct?

Howard

[joecar]

It didn't look like he posted enough of the timing table to see the commanded timing at 3600/ .60 cyl. I have seen that knock at 3600, well below peak VE, can lean towards more false knock the actual. Without know how much timing is being commanded its tough to predict. You could as a check throw 15 degrees of timing in the cells and see what happens. If you have headers and exhaust, check to make sure that nothing is rattling around that could cause false knock.

Joe, you posted something that caught my eye! When in SD the pcm ONLY uses the low-octane table for timing????:nixweiss: Makes sense since SD is a backup to the MAF system and the PCM thinks the car is in trouble. Is this correct?

Howard Howard,

Yes, (unless using a COS) when running SD (any of the DTC's P0101, P0102, or P0103 is present) the PCM is in failure mode and uses the low octane table instead sliding between both.

Running a COS gives you both tables.

Cheers
Joe

[Xtnct00WS6]

Is there a reason why runaway highlighting isn't turned on by default?

Here's a bigger screenshot of the high octane table. I do have headers and exhaust. They don't sound like they're hitting the floor though. They used to and I could feel the timing being pulled, but now I don't.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e66/extnctblkws6/Spark_High-Octane_table_Full.gif

[Xtnct00WS6]

Why is it that when I Paste And Subtract With Labels, the changes don't occur where it was originally highlighted?

[joecar]

Why is it that when I Paste And Subtract With Labels, the changes don't occur where it was originally highlighted?It aligns the cells with the labels and operates on those.

Pics...?

[Xtnct00WS6]

Well when I did that procedure twice, I still have KR of about 9.9. I don't think I did much to decrease KR at all. Does this confirm that it's false KR? Should I take the valve covers off and see if I can find anything wrong?

Here's what my high octane table looks like:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e66/extnctblkws6/EDIT3.gif
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e66/extnctblkws6/EDIT.gif

The part it dips down sharply is where a lot of the changes were made even though you can see where the selection is. I guess that's what I was talking about as far as the highlights not being in the same place.

[Redline Motorsports]

Id pull 3 degrees of timing out from .50-.90 between 2500-6500 rpms. These motors dont need that kind of timing to make power so no need dancing on the edge of detonation.

First I would fill those cells with 15 degrees and confirm that you have no false knock. If there is no false knock drop the timing down.

[joecar]

On the log chart, real knock looks like a sawtooth waveform.

[joecar]

Why is it that when I Paste And Subtract With Labels, the changes don't occur where it was originally highlighted?Give me some time, I'll play with this on mine.