KR during rich condition???

[Garry]

OK, back to square one ... re-did my initial AutoVE setup, 15% added to VE-tables, commanded AFR looks a lot better under WOT ... got the first 40min run down for correcting the VE tables, but where is this knock coming from? With AFR values in the 11 and 12 range, and rather low RPMs, what could be causing this? Bad timing?

http://glendown.de/gfx/log1.GIF

[Garry]

P.S. - in order to get more info on the KR situation, I checked the available maps ... one plots the KR against the CYLAIR value, which is a calculated PID against MAF ... can I instead use one of the DMA-CYLAIR PIDs, as I don't have the MAF connected during AutoVE ... I suppose they won't work then, either ... guess I could re-connect the MAF for a KR testrun ...

[dc_justin]

Looks to me like you've got too much timing for such high load at low rpm...

[dc_justin]

P.S. - in order to get more info on the KR situation, I checked the available maps ... one plots the KR against the CYLAIR value, which is a calculated PID against MAF ... can I instead use one of the DMA-CYLAIR PIDs, as I don't have the MAF connected during AutoVE ... I suppose they won't work then, either ... guess I could re-connect the MAF for a KR testrun ...

Use GM.CYLAIR_DMA or GM.DYNCYLAIR_DMA (they should read the same in speed density), and alter your map to display using that as your column data field instead of CYLAIR.

Justin

[Garry]

OK, will do ... (with or w/o MAF re-connected?)

[Garry]

Looks to me like you've got too much timing for such high load at low rpm...
Driving on a normal road, it's more or less the only way to get the high MAP cells filled ... low speed, high gear, pedal to the metal ... ;)

[dc_justin]

Driving on a normal road, it's more or less the only way to get the high MAP cells filled ... low speed, high gear, pedal to the metal ... ;)

It's still too much timing there. I'd be surprised if you can't hear the pinging (and definitely can feel it). My 02 had similar KR with the stock timing table. Pulled the timing out of the lug-zones there and it runs a lot better... although I prefer not to drive in those high-load, low-rpm ranges.
What mods have you done to your powertrain ?


As for the PID suggestions, CYLAIR_DMA is the one to go with, MAF or MAFLess, as it is what the PCM uses for computations. As per the scan tool PID description, DYNCYLAIR_DMA is the speed density airmass. This can be confirmed by logging both CYLAIR_DMA and DYNCYLAIR_DMA and comparing your results while in speed density vs mass-air.

[Garry]

It's still too much timing there. I'd be surprised if you can't hear the pinging (and definitely can feel it). My 02 had similar KR with the stock timing table. Pulled the timing out of the lug-zones there and it runs a lot better... although I prefer not to drive in those high-load, low-rpm ranges.

It's not exactly my normal driving style, either ... ;)


What mods have you done to your powertrain ?
Nothing yet ... may get some stuff done through the winter, though ...


As for the PID suggestions, CYLAIR_DMA is the one to go with, MAF or MAFLess, as it is what the PCM uses for computations. As per the scan tool PID description, DYNCYLAIR_DMA is the speed density airmass. This can be confirmed by logging both CYLAIR_DMA and DYNCYLAIR_DMA and comparing your results while in speed density vs mass-air.
OK, so I'll leave the MAF out and just logg both CYLAIR PIDs, see what I get out of that ...

Tnx

[Scoota]

Garry, It looks to be Burst Knock Retard you are experiencing there.

Cheers Scotty

[Garry]

I will be loggin the DMA DYNAIR PIDs on the way home, from what I read here on the forum that may/should give some insight whether it's real knock or BKR ... !?

[dc_justin]

I will be loggin the DMA DYNAIR PIDs on the way home, from what I read here on the forum that may/should give some insight whether it's real knock or BKR ... !?

BKR won't show up as KR, it just shows up as timing being pulled. My money's still on excessive timing, especially considering that the sawtooth pattern in to the right occurs under a long period of heavy throttle. Burst knock would be occuring in situations of rapid airmass change and not in a steady state like that.

[Dirk Diggler]

Driving on a normal road, it's more or less the only way to get the high MAP cells filled ... low speed, high gear, pedal to the metal ... ;)



You are lugging the engine if you are in 6th at 1600 rpm doing 30 mph and flooring it. The engine doenst like this and this is why its pinging. Dont worry about filling all the cells use copy and fill with labels for the stuff you didnt hit while logging

[Garry]

Did my second AutoVE run with the corrections from this morning's run calculated into the VE tables ... BEN looked great all the way through ... just the 800-1200 RPM range is running a bit lean, 15-20 MAP is a bit rich ... apart from that, most cells were +-1% ...

I do get the KR in "normal" situations, too ... KBR stayed 0 most of the time.

http://glendown.de/gfx/log2.GIF

Here's (http://glendown.de/gfx/efilog.zip) the two loggs a made on the way home ...