FlashScan weekly update March 19, 2004

[Blacky]

Has it been a week already? Ok, so I'm a day late, but it is still the 19th in the US :)

We have been working hard to get the latest version of the EFILive Scan Tool beta tested and packaged ready for release this weekend. You can read about the updates that will be available here:
http://www.efilive.com/downloads/v63updates.html

Today, I want to explain the different products that will be part of the EFILive product range and what they will be called. That way, when information is released you will (hopefully) understand what we are talking about.

EFILive is a generic term that covers the entire product range, it is qualified with the following product names:

EFILive Scan Tool is our existing scan tool software and comes in two flavours: Standard and Professional. These two product codes are name STD and PRO respectively. The only difference is, the PRO version includes bi-directional controls.

EFILive Tuning Tool is our upcoming tuning tool software. It's product code is TUN and it consists of three integrated components:
The PCM reader which reads the existing calibration from your PCM to your PC for later editing.
The PCM editor which allows you to edit the PCM calibrations with easy to use, intuitive, windows based software.
The PCM programmer which reflashes your PCM with the edited calibrations.
EFILive FlashScan is our new hardware interface cable. It has new features requested by our customers:
Black box data logging, which means you can log up to 5 minutes of high-speed data directly in the interface cable itself, without needing your PC connected.
Multiple A/D convertors that are integrated into EFILive's data stream which means you can log external equipment such as wide band O2 sensors and Dyno power output directly into EFILive correlated precisely with all the usual engine sensors.
EFILive FlashScan will be sold in two different configurations:
EFILive FlashScan Personal, code FSP, is the same size and shape as the AutoTap AT1 interface cable. It supports USB connections only. You can see pictures of a prototype FSP interface here: http://www.efilive.com/news_20040209.html
EFILive FlashScan WorkShop, code FSW, will be about 3 times as large and will have more memory, more A/D inputs and an LCD display for displaying trouble codes with no PC required. It will support USB and RS232 connections.
Regards
Paul

[XLR8NSS]

This is a little confusing, please clarify something for me. :)

Flashscan is just a hardware interface. In order to program a PCM the tuning software will be needed. Will the Flashscan cable be needed to use the tuning software or will an existing EFILive cable work?

If the Flashscan cable is needed to program with will the Tuning software and Flashscan cable be offered in a bundled package?

I was under the impression that Flashscan was a cable interface and programming tool in one package.

Thanks

John

[Blacky]

The FlashScan interface cable, the EFILive Tuning Tool and the EFILive Scan Tool Software will all be bundled as a single package called EFILive TUN.

You will basically have the following package choices:
EFILive STD ATUSB - STD Scan Tool and AutoTap USB cable
EFILive PRO ATUSB - PRO Scan Tool and AutoTap USB cable
EFILive TUN FSP - PRO Scan Tool, Tuning Tool and FlashScan Personal cable
EFILive TUN FSW - PRO Scan Tool, Tuning Tool and FlashScan Workshop cable
There will be several different licensing options for each of the TUN packages.

The FlashScan cable will not be sold as a stand-alone cable, it comes bundled with a license for both the EFILive PRO Scan Tool and EFILive Tuning Tool.

The existing AutoTap cable used by the EFILive Scan Tool does not support the EFILive Tuning Tool software.

Regards
Paul

[Steve Bryant]

Thanks for this week's installment and the clarification. I can see the light more clearly now!

[bink]

Black box data logging, which means you can log up to 5 minutes of high-speed data directly in the interface cable itself, without needing your PC connected.

Oh Yeah!!!! I can leave the friggen laptop in the house! :D
joel

[Iv_z28]

Um... so could we get a clarification - if I plan to buy the flashscan (TUN bundle), does it mean that I can essentially through my perfectly good RS232 autotap cable [ which came with my EFILivePro; purchased 6months ago] out of the window, or the existing customers are going to have a buyback/upgrade option for the cable, as well as the software??

[Blacky]

Um... so could we get a clarification - if I plan to buy the flashscan (TUN bundle), does it mean that I can essentially through my perfectly good RS232 autotap cable [ which came with my EFILivePro; purchased 6months ago] out of the window, or the existing customers are going to have a buyback/upgrade option for the cable, as well as the software??

Now that is a good question to which we have not yet figured out a good answer.

The most likely solution (although by no means our final decision) will be a changeover arrangement - built into the upgrade price. i.e. it will be $X cheaper to upgrade if you swap your working AutoTap interface for a FlashScan interface. $X will be calculated based on the type of interface cable you have.

I guess everyone will want to know what $X will be but please don't ask because we haven't set any prices nor can we discuss prices.

Regards
Paul

[GMPX]

Oh Yeah!!!! I can leave the friggen laptop in the house! :D
joel

That is the idea, lets face it, ALL our cars lift the wheels on launch at the strip right!, it's just one less thing to worry about having sitting (flying around) in the car.
With approx 5mins of internal logging time that would give you at least 5 runs down the stip including logging the burnout and braking area etc.

[deezel]

Oh Yeah!!!! I can leave the friggen laptop in the house! :D
joel

That is the idea, lets face it, ALL our cars lift the wheels on launch at the strip right!, it's just one less thing to worry about having sitting (flying around) in the car.
With approx 5mins of internal logging time that would give you at least 5 runs down the stip including logging the burnout and braking area etc.

Can you turn on/off the black box logging without connecting to a laptop? This would be handy/necessary while waiting in the staging lanes, for example.

[GMPX]

Can you turn on/off the black box logging without connecting to a laptop? This would be handy/necessary while waiting in the staging lanes, for example.

Yes, there is single a push button on the unit for start/stop, with LED's to indicate what is going on.

[XLR8NSS]

Can you turn on/off the black box logging without connecting to a laptop? This would be handy/necessary while waiting in the staging lanes, for example.

Yes, there is single a push button on the unit for start/stop, with LED's to indicate what is going on.

I can't wait, that is an awesome feature. :)

Blacky - Thanks for answering my question above.

[AllCammedUp]

Can you turn on/off the black box logging without connecting to a laptop? This would be handy/necessary while waiting in the staging lanes, for example.

Yes, there is single a push button on the unit for start/stop, with LED's to indicate what is going on.

I can't wait, that is an awesome feature. :)

Blacky - Thanks for answering my question above.

Amen! This is gonna rock! I can't wait to try this out. I'm just ecstatic that I'll now have all of my scanning/tuning done w/ one cable and w/ one set of software. This is as close to nirvana as we could ask for! :)

[dissonance]

The most likely solution (although by no means our final decision) will be a changeover arrangement - built into the upgrade price. i.e. it will be $X cheaper to upgrade if you swap your working AutoTap interface for a FlashScan interface. $X will be calculated based on the type of interface cable you have.

If I understand this right? You mean you have to send your current B&B cable to you guys? So you can get the flash scan cable?

If this is the case I would not be willing to do that because I own the B&B cable not only for EFILive but also for auto tap. I have two other cars that I use auto tap with... I also use it for family member’s car and friends. I don’t want to give up the ability to use my generic scan tool.

I 1st got the version 1 cable and used only auto tap... when the version 2 cable came out I wanteed to upgraded to EFILive Pro and get the new cable + the new auto tap...

I think the current users should be able to buy the upgrade to flash scan cable + EFILive TUN “with the ability to tune and scan“ with out giving up the current B&B cable... I paid not only for EFILive but the cable and auto tap software.

[Steve Bryant]

I think that for most of us a trade-in policy (pro rated according to the type of interface cable assembly) would work best. However, for those registered owners who might prefer to keep their existing set-up in its entirety, you could still offer a discounted purchase price for EFILive TUN FSP or EFILive TUN SW - PRO.

Eventually, you need to come up with some sort of upgrade price matrix to cover people who want to upgrade from FSP to PRO or through the various levels of limited VIN's through the unlimited VIN tuning capability.

Some of these pricing decisions can be deferred until you are farther down the road or until someone requests a specific upgrade path. That way you can focus on software/hardware/fabrication etc. that really requires your attention now.

[Blacky]

I 1st got the version 1 cable and used only auto tap... when the version 2 cable came out I wanteed to upgraded to EFILive Pro and get the new cable + the new auto tap...

That is exactly why it is a difficult problem to solve.


I think the current users should be able to buy the upgrade to flash scan cable + EFILive TUN “with the ability to tune and scan“ with out giving up the current B&B cable... I paid not only for EFILive but the cable and auto tap software.

We cannot and will not demand that anyone returns their AutoTap cable, it has other necessary uses besides EFILive.
However that leaves our upgrade option open to abuse because people who upgrade and keep their cable could then on-sell their cable. That is not the purpose of an upgrade. And the purchaser would be left with a version of EFILive that could not be upgrade to the tuner version without knowing it.

We are still trying to figure out the most appropriate way to handle this issue.

Regards
Paul

[66ImpalaLT1]

After much fighting with my wideband I dont think I'm going to hook it up to the PCM the way I wanted it. That means I'll be an early adopter of FlashScan.

Let me know if you need another beta tester.

[DebianDog]

After much fighting with my wideband I dont think I'm going to hook it up to the PCM the way I wanted it. That means I'll be an early adopter of FlashScan.

Let me know if you need another beta tester.

Me too brother! Looking forward to the WB connector.
--
an avaliable Beta tester

[AllCammedUp]

As long as we're talkin' about beta testers, I'll throw my hat into the ring, as well! ;)

[Highlander]

I 1st got the version 1 cable and used only auto tap... when the version 2 cable came out I wanteed to upgraded to EFILive Pro and get the new cable + the new auto tap...

That is exactly why it is a difficult problem to solve.


I think the current users should be able to buy the upgrade to flash scan cable + EFILive TUN “with the ability to tune and scan“ with out giving up the current B&B cable... I paid not only for EFILive but the cable and auto tap software.

We cannot and will not demand that anyone returns their AutoTap cable, it has other necessary uses besides EFILive.
However that leaves our upgrade option open to abuse because people who upgrade and keep their cable could then on-sell their cable. That is not the purpose of an upgrade. And the purchaser would be left with a version of EFILive that could not be upgrade to the tuner version without knowing it.

We are still trying to figure out the most appropriate way to handle this issue.

Regards
Paul

I think the best would be the honor system... If efilive takes care of me (as they have) why would I copy their software???

I've liked your pricing for the scanner... fair although not cheap.

[QUICKSILVER2002]

How many A/D inputs will the flashcan personal cable have (you said the shop version will have more).

Also, how will logging the analog inputs work in the scan tool software? Will you be able to setup calculated PIDs with lookup tables for something like A/F or will there be a different method?

The ability to log with only the cable is an awesome feature, but here is a suggestion that would make this the "ultimate" solution. An optional configurable display of some sort for permanent mounting in the car. You could configure it with the scantool software, but then allow continuous real time monitoring when the laptop is disconnected. It would not have to be anything fancy (just simple digital readouts). A few buttons to cycle through the configured PIDS and to display max and mins during last run would be awesome. A replay feature of the last log stored in memory would put the icing on the cake and we could just leave our laptops at home.

I think you would be amazed at how many people would be intrested in something like this. I know it is hard to view the display while driving, but let's face it (it just looks cool). Plus, I'm usually just checking up on things and making sure nothing crazy is going on (the laptop is needed for real tuning sessions).

Oh yea, if you need beta testers :lol: . I have lots of analog input already setup in my car.

[Highlander]

The other thing that can be done is use the same S/N of the ATAP cable in the FlashScan cable... that way your registration will still be the same...

Implement logging feauture with Username (ID) and Password (registration code) along with full name and such when getting the updates of a program online...

Make a "transferability" of the license at the cost of the savings for being an already efilive costumer... Since the cost of the cable and program will be sold for less.. it can be added to the final price of someone transfering the license to their name etc. People dont like giving their personal stuff to anyone else...

Sound fair?

[Blacky]

How many A/D inputs will the flashcan personal cable have (you said the shop version will have more).

2 on the FlashScan Personal
4 on the FlashScan Workshop


Also, how will logging the analog inputs work in the scan tool software? Will you be able to setup calculated PIDs with lookup tables for something like A/F or will there be a different method?

The digital values of the analog inputs will be available in 4 new PIDs, similar to calculated PIDs. You can use them as you would any other PID. So far we have not implemented lookup tables. We may do, since some analog inputs will not be linear.


The ability to log with only the cable is an awesome feature, but here is a suggestion that would make this the "ultimate" solution. An optional configurable display of some sort for permanent mounting in the car. You could configure it with the scantool software, but then allow continuous real time monitoring when the laptop is disconnected. It would not have to be anything fancy (just simple digital readouts). A few buttons to cycle through the configured PIDS and to display max and mins during last run would be awesome. A replay feature of the last log stored in memory would put the icing on the cake and we could just leave our laptops at home.

The FlashScan Workshop cable (which looks really cool by the way) will have an LCD display.


Oh yea, if you need beta testers :lol: . I have lots of analog input already setup in my car.
We will be setting up a beta program. There will be plenty of warning :)

Regards
Paul

[Highlander]

Count me IN!!!!!! i have a wideband :D :D

[AllCammedUp]

Count me IN!!!!!! i have a wideband :D :D

WooHoo! Count me in - I'll get a wideband! ;) ;) (Perfect excuse to mod some more!)

[jmX]

Sounds great. I too just bought EFILive a few months ago and would hate to have to call that whole $300 a loss. You guys have registration #'s of existing customers, so it should be easy to control who can get a discount and who cant right?

Anyway, I cant wait to see the tuning stuff....LS1edit drives me nuts with how shit the interface is.

Oh, and a plug in interface and SDK would be cool for us coder guys ;) We could do some of the work for you guys, like if there was a plugin mechanism that could insert data into the logging stream, some bored person out there coulda made the wideband datalogger integration already while you guys work on the more important stuff.

[Blacky]

Sounds great. I too just bought EFILive a few months ago and would hate to have to call that whole $300 a loss. You guys have registration #'s of existing customers, so it should be easy to control who can get a discount and who cant right?

There *will* be an upgrade path for existing EFILive customers - obviously we have to cover some costs including the new hardware.


Oh, and a plug in interface and SDK would be cool for us coder guys ;) We could do some of the work for you guys, like if there was a plugin mechanism that could insert data into the logging stream, some bored person out there coulda made the wideband datalogger integration already while you guys work on the more important stuff.

EFILive V6 ships with an programmers' API that you are free to use. It is not documented yet, so that makes it difficult to use. The documentation is not a high priority but if there are any coders out there who would like to write their own front end for EFILive or to integrate a third party application then you can use our API to do that.

Maybe we could work out a deal for anyone that want's to write the API dosumentation with sample VB, Delphi and/or C programs to show how to use the API.

The API was originally developed to allow dyno software to "read" EFILive's real time data. That meant dyno manufacturer's could log all/any PIDs directly into their dyno runs.

Regards
Paul

[QUICKSILVER2002]

The FlashScan Workshop cable (which looks really cool by the way) will have an LCD display.


Will this LCD be able to display more than just diagnostic codes? I think you mentioned it would only display codes before.

[Blacky]

The FlashScan Workshop cable (which looks really cool by the way) will have an LCD display.


Will this LCD be able to display more than just diagnostic codes? I think you mentioned it would only display codes before.

In it's first release the FSW will display DTCs (codes only, no descriptions) and some user feedback/status messages.

During subsequent firmware upgrades we intend to add more features. Which will almost certianly include the ability to monitor multiple PIDs.

Regards
Paul

[bink]

Anxiously waiting.......
:mrgreen: joel

[Highlander]

This is a really good tool... I want to get my hands on it :)

Great work guys.