RR and 98' PCMs..

[Redline Motorsports]

I know that the 98' is a rebel year for the PCM but seemed to believe I came across some post regarding the RR's compatibility with this wiring harness.

We just bought a 98' Formula to be converted to a shop race car and really wanted to use a factory style PCM for engine management vs. a aftermarket system. Figure it would also be a good time to play with a RR PCM.

What are my options?

Thanks

Howard

[Doc]

I would go ahead with the pin swap Howard. Do you want to keep the instrument cluster (IC) functionality? If so start searching for an (IC). If you desire the fuel gage to function then go ahead and start looking for a 99+up plastic tank-might as well go ahead and incorporate a Racetronix or other brand fuel system upgrade for the 99+up while you are at it. I built up a cable to speed up 98 tuning with the RR but it is not a real full time fix-I have only used it on the dyno so far. I thought at one point there was talk of possibly having a 98 RR. Maybe Geoff or Craig could chime in.:)

[98SS2836]

I wish RR and custom operating systems would come out for 98's. I know it would make my tuning life easyer. Probably some shops too.

[Redline Motorsports]

I would go ahead with the pin swap Howard. Do you want to keep the instrument cluster (IC) functionality? If so start searching for an (IC). If you desire the fuel gage to function then go ahead and start looking for a 99+up plastic tank-might as well go ahead and incorporate a Racetronix or other brand fuel system upgrade for the 99+up while you are at it. I built up a cable to speed up 98 tuning with the RR but it is not a real full time fix-I have only used it on the dyno so far. I thought at one point there was talk of possibly having a 98 RR. Maybe Geoff or Craig could chime in.:)

We are shooting for a mid 9 sec car with full interior and stock functionality so keeping the cluster is a key item. What is involved with the pin swap and are there any instructions/tutorials floating around? Getting a cluster is not a problem nor is the tank etc.... The fuel system is going to be from start to finish as the power level for our goal will demand it.

Is the pin swap just about just switching over to a 99' PCM setup which requires the 99' dash and tank?? If so it doesn't sound like a big deal. I love electrical wiring!:rockon:

Is the 98 vs 99 PCM very different? Obviously engine management wise there should be no difference. I can see the dash and tank stuff being the bigger issue.

Now I need a picture of both PCM pin outs!

Howard

[TAQuickness]

RMS - I'll see if I can dig it up, but somewhere in here Ross posted pic's of PCM guts. 98's are substantialy different.

[Black02SS]

Let me talk to Craig HT. We might be able to get you into a 98 RR if you will ship him the PCM.

[ChipsByAl]

Howard I have done the 98 to 2002 PCM swap a couple of times. The later OS is better and has custom systems available. You can keep the stock 1998 cluster working with the 02 PCM. I have detailed schematics and pin swapping information, just haven't created the web page yet! The evap system will not function correctly, don't think this will upset your combination. Contact me if you need some of this info.
AL

[Doc]

Al, did you get the fuel gage to work on the 98 after the swap? I thought what with F0501 and F0507 being different btw the years plus the different sending units, evap system, etc. that the Instrument cluster's fuel gage would not work? I went ahead and got a plastic tank, IC, and racetronix 99+up fuel system upgrade and it all works. I don't doubt the work you have done Al, I just would like to learn.
:cheers: :cheers:

[Brains]

I'd love to see this as well, I have three 98's I would convert nearly immediately.

[Redline Motorsports]

Let me talk to Craig HT. We might be able to get you into a 98 RR if you will ship him the PCM.

Chad,

Thats all I want to do! Its for the shop car and it makes no sense not to use a RR unit.

The PCM is sitting on the front seat so let me know! :)

Before I go looking, will it still require a IC change?

HT

[99blackFRC]

I've tried getting in touch with Craig via email many times now and haven't had any luck in getting a response. We're also looking for a '98 road runner solution as well. I've been ready to buy for a while now.. :nixweiss:

[TurboVet]

Craig emailed me this week saying he can convert a 98 pcm. You will have to send him a core pcm.

[joecar]

TurboVet, welcome to the forum... :cheers:

[Black02SS]

I had to use the old' log/flash method today on a 98 and all I can say is not again. That was horrible. I have been so spoiled with my RR for 99+ that I forgot how much time was actually saved with the RR.

[99blackFRC]

You're not kidding, Chad.. That's what I spent most of the day doing today. log, flash, log flash.. tedious stuff.. We're using our 98 PCM to run a cammed '06 LS7 crate motor in a C5 vert.



I had to use the old' log/flash method today on a 98 and all I can say is not again. That was horrible. I have been so spoiled with my RR for 99+ that I forgot how much time was actually saved with the RR.

[Redline Motorsports]

So Moates can modify the 98' PCM to work? If so its it still a 98' PCM or can it be upgraded to a 99+. I need to make a choice to feed our 98' that we are building for 9's!:rockon:

Howard

Chad! :bash:

[Craig Moates]

I've tried getting in touch with Craig via email many times now and haven't had any luck in getting a response. We're also looking for a '98 road runner solution as well. I've been ready to buy for a while now.. :nixweiss:

I always answer all emails, sometimes with a couple of days lag though. Might be a bouncing issue with the delivery?

[Craig Moates]

Folks,

Update on the 98 RR PCMs:

- Small handful of 98 PCMs on the bench, torn down, bead blasted, and ready for RR install.

- Can't fit the 'weatherproof' connector like I have on the 99+ units, there's just no room internally in locations which don't interfere with the install in the vehicle. So, the cabling has to come through without the benefit of a disconnect. This means no Bluetooth (at least not easily) with the 98s (yet).

- Just finished up getting a batch of Diesel stuff put back together, all the 512k and 1024k 99+ units are assembled and tested, and the final assembly of the 98s is on the list for this weekend.

- I have access to a 98 test mule, so all units will be tested in vehicle prior to making them available. Should be able to finish this weekend also.

- I need more 98 cores to make this offering feasible.

Best regards,
-Craig

[ringram]

Sounds like a 98 to 99+ PCM adapter would have a waiting market.

[Tordne]

Doesn't sound that easy dude. Have seen posts about fuel tank and console changes required :frown:

[Redline Motorsports]

Can someone tell me if Craig modifies the 98' PCM does it work with 99' + OS's??

[Brains]

Probably not.. w/o a good 2 or 3 bar implementation, its a step forward but still not what I personally need. :(

[TurboVet]

TurboVet, welcome to the forum... :cheers:
Thanks.

[Redline Motorsports]

Probably not.. w/o a good 2 or 3 bar implementation, its a step forward but still not what I personally need. :(

Need a real answer before I yank the harness and PCM out and stuff a Big Stuff 3 in...........

[Craig Moates]

Pretty sure you'll be using a 98 OS in the 98 PCM.

As a status update, I've bench tested the 98 PCM with the RR installed. Everything checks out.

I had to make some compromises on the cabling, but it'll work fine. Just a USB cable hanging out the back through a 3/8" hole, siliconed up to guard against the elements.

As for the in-vehicle testing, I have to wait until the test mule is reassembled at Thunder Racing's shop. Should be mid week.

[99blackFRC]

Pretty sure you'll be using a 98 OS in the 98 PCM.

As a status update, I've bench tested the 98 PCM with the RR installed. Everything checks out.

I had to make some compromises on the cabling, but it'll work fine. Just a USB cable hanging out the back through a 3/8" hole, siliconed up to guard against the elements.

As for the in-vehicle testing, I have to wait until the test mule is reassembled at Thunder Racing's shop. Should be mid week.

I've got a perfect test mule for ya ;) '98 C5 with LS7 installed (98 PCM). We've just about completed tuning on it via Hpt, but I'd really like to get into the RR stuff for our business (just got our llc friday). Also have a '98 big cube FI project car that we'll start tuning on next. I still have that spare 98 PCM as well if you need it. I think the RR would make the wild projects much easier and faster to get tweaked in. Esp the 98's where HPt's RTT is non-existant.


-Tom :cheers:

[1998ws6]

Sounds good Craig, other than the no bluetooth option at first :(

One concern, but you are probably already aware of it, with a 98 pcm, if it throws a P0605 checksum code, just once, it will not allow the car to start anymore.

Something to make sure when the realtime emulator is updated that the checksums are updated at the same time to prevent this from killing the pcm.

I look forward to hearing the results of the in vehicle testing, to make sure this isn't a concern.

Ryan

[98SS2836]

I really am excited that this is happening I'm holding out on doing a conversion to an 02 pcm this winter. I just hope some kind of operating system come about also.

[Doc]

I really am excited that this is happening I'm holding out on doing a conversion to an 02 pcm this winter. I just hope some kind of operating system come about also.

I don't want to rain on any 98 owners parade, or Craig's business but I would seriously suggest you look hard at all the pro's of going to the newer operating systems. The VE table alone is worthy in my opinion of the swap. As a "halfbreed" owner, my 98 PCM is residing in a 5.3 Frankenstang project car that has a Vic Jr. intake. The only thing the 98 pcm is doing is controlling spark via the minimum tables with all other tables zero'd out. Last week at the track the beast went 12.23 on motor and 11.94 on a 100 shot. Can't wait till wed to get my beast to the track.

[Brains]

Doc, have you detailed the "gotchas" of repinning to a 99+ PCM in an F-body anywhere? I'd be very interested to read if you have. My g/f daily drives a 98 A4 Z/28 with a T76, and right now the fueling is handled by a Megasquirt EFI. Everything else is handled with the factory PCM. If I could put a 99+ PCM in the car and retain everything like it should be, I'd be all over it. Being able to tune one PCM would be really nice, especially under boost :)

[98SS2836]

Any new info on this subject.

[Redline Motorsports]

I need an update or I am going with the Big Stuff 3 that is sitting on my desk.:bash:

Howard

[Black02SS]

Send Craig an email and see what he has to say.

[99blackFRC]

I'm curious as well :)

[Craig Moates]

Should be good to go, just order one up and try it out. Money back guarantee of course.

[1998ws6]

Sounds great.

do you have cores in stock, or is a core required?

Thanks

Ryan

[Craig Moates]

I'd definitely appreciate some 98 cores. But if you don't have one, I'll part with what I have.

[ToplessTexan]

Should be good to go, just order one up and try it out. Money back guarantee of course.

Hmmm... Don't see that option. :frown:

[GMPX]

Just noticed your avatar Craig, never figured you to be a Slayer fan?
http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Intervention-Slayer/dp/B000062Y91

Cheers,
Ross

[TAQuickness]

Slayer's cool. Had seasons in the abyss blasting this morning.

[GMPX]

I knew there was others like me here :rockon:

[98SS2836]

Slayer is all I listen too well tool too.

[98SS2836]

Anyway whats going on with this road runner and 98 cars.

[Craig Moates]

Yes, most definitely. Been a fan since Show No Mercy back in high school. Been to numerous shows, first back in '88 with Motorhead and Overkill in Miami, most recently for their GHUA tour at the House of Blues in New Orleans.

http://www.slayerized.com/music/discography.html

Ross, looks like they're headed your way! Mastodon is opening, they tear it up pretty good too.
http://www.slayerized.com/ontheroad/tourdates.html

[Craig Moates]

Stay tuned on the 98 vehicles, I've got three on the bench and going out today for testing. The boxes are extremely touchy, such that if the memory is corrupted or doesn't match, the PCM locks itself down internally in an unrecoverable fashion. Like setting up cylinder heads on a glass table.

[pkincy]

Craig,

I presume that you have gotten the 98 Fbods (19980100) working as it appears on your website.

I have ordered it, a license, and bluetooth.

Perry

Edit 1: Well I tried to order them. The website wouldn't let me create an account. :frown:

Edit 2: Second time was a charm!

[Craig Moates]

Yes, that is correct. In limited quantities, the 98s are now available.

However, no Bluetooth functionality is available for the 98s due to cabling restrictions on the fitment.

[98SS2836]

How does this work? I'm not too familiar with real time tuning. For instance running WOT can you just adjust your fueling while your going at it?

[98SS2836]

I coul;dn't find the 98 stuff on your wedsite.

[pkincy]

Go to the Roadrunner section of products and click on the RR. Go to the drop down menu. You will see 97/98 at the bottom at +$100.

So it would be $699 (not $599) plus the $199 Moates license for EFILive.

Perry

[TAQuickness]

How does this work? I'm not too familiar with real time tuning. For instance running WOT can you just adjust your fueling while your going at it?

That's about it. If you use the RTACS, it will update automagically for you.