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Doc
November 19th, 2006, 05:36 PM
In my never ending quest to get my car to command and put out exactly what I demand I was wondering if anybody could shed more light on this PID? I have done the AutoVE and rescaled my MAF for CL operation. I am noticing a situation where when I command an AFR value (13 AFR) in PE based on RPM {B3618} and the scanner is reporting a different commanded value (11.7 AFR). I take it I have a modifier table or two interfering/not making sense. After searching thru the modifiers I came upon {B3659}, Commanded fuel in piston protection mode which was commanding 11.7 to 1 AFR. Awfully suspicious, but alas I don't think it is possilbe for this to be enabled based on the qualifiers. It did lead me to Appendix B of the tuning manual. On page 90 it states...

"The converted AFR values may not be absolutely accurate because an off board tool can never know the exact EQRatio to which the offsets will be applied when the engine is operating."

And it goes on to say

"An off board tool can never know that final AFR (or EQRatio) value since it can never know the currently commanded EQRatio or AFR value..."

And it further goes on to say

"This is one reason why the PCM and most competent PCM tuners do not work in AFR, but in EQRatio or Lambda. EFI Live provides the AFR display mode in order to ease first time users into the concept of EQRatio and or Lambda."

This all lead me back to the scan tool. I thought I would like to be one of the competent tuners and walk away from AFR and use EQRatio soley. It works better for me when I VE tune and rescaling the MAF. The end kicker is trying to figure out how to use this PID, Commanded EQRatio. More so everytime I read the statement about "An off board tool.." Well, what about the RR's emulator? Doesn't it (the RR) know what the current EQRatio or AFR the PCM is commanding? Could it not be configured to accept/respond to analog data from a wideband vs. Commanded AFR/EQRatio?

I can "make" this PCM do my bidding, but that just sounds like an easy way out. Like, LS1edit.

Obtw I am currently using/observing all of this with GM's stock 1222156 OS.

And finally, I ran out of time tonight but, I am going to change the Commanded fuel values to display in Default EQ units and recheck all the modifiers to see if they are sane or jacked up. Thanks for the read, I am stepping away from the AFR woobie.

Blacky
November 19th, 2006, 06:32 PM
The comment about the offboard tool not "knowing" the final AFR relates to converting EQRatio modifiers to AFR modifiers. In this case the offboard tool is the Tuning Tool software not the Scan Tool.

You'll notice that fuel modifer tables, such as B3617 PE Modifier based on ECT, will not display in AFR. For the reasons described in the manual. (Are you reading the latest manual? Page 90 is not Appendix B in the latest manual).

The Scan Tool can always accurately report the commanded AFR PID transmitted by the PCM.

Regards
Paul

Doc
November 20th, 2006, 05:30 AM
Paul,
I am going off of the April 2006 Revision, Appendix B that is in the Downloads\ Documentation section, is their a newer revision?

Upon reviewing the April revision, which I just downloaded yesterday, I know, I am behind, with regard to how the PCM "sees" the units as a EQRatio I changed the Displayed units under properties in the Tuning tool and I think I have answered my own question. In the April Revision on page 89, the Modifier tables are defined as values that cannot be accurately converted to AFR. I have made up a chart for my rusty AFR thinking brain. I can now see the problems I was having. I can't wait to get off work and straighten things out. Still What about the Commanded EQRatio PID? It is currently X'd out and I can't get any info by right clicking it. Please let me know if there is a newer revision than April 06 as I really learned alot with appendix B and if there is more info like that I would love to have it. Thanks.:)

Doc
November 20th, 2006, 05:34 AM
And this is my quick reference EQ Ratio translation chart. Could something like it be added to the conversion calculator in the tuning tool?EQR AFR
1 14.63
1.083 13.5
1.091 13.4
1.1 13.3
1.109 13.2
1.1167 13.1
1.125 13
1.134 12.9
1.1425 12.8
1.152 12.7
1.161 12.6
1.17 12.5
1.179 12.4
1.189 12.3
1.199 12.2
1.209 12.1
1.219 12
1.229 11.9
1.239 11.8
1.249 11.7

joecar
November 20th, 2006, 07:30 AM
The reason for using EQ is that it is the ratio to stoichiometric without knowing the stoichiometric value, whereas AFR requires that the stoichiometric value be known.