What to tune with red top svo injectors?

[dirt_track_racer_81]

I got some 30lb svo red top injectors off a mustang i was working on and im goin to put these on my truck, what all do i need to do in the tune to get these to work properly..its a 2000 chevy truck with a 6.0 230/226 .597/.573 cam, 241 heads, ls1 intake, Custom OS and Speed Density tune,
also running an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator and its set to 60 psi

[Black02SS]

Setup your IFR table and adjust you rmin/default pulse width and you are all set. :)

[dirt_track_racer_81]

Setup your IFR table and adjust you rmin/default pulse width and you are all set. :)
thats easy for you to say lol..is there a tutorial to setting that up on here? setting up injectors is the only thing that i really havent figured out yet..

[kbracing96]

30lbs SVO's I believe are rated at 43.5 psi. so at 60 psi, they will be 41.379 lbs. Should be able to put that across the board in your IFR table as long as your pressure reg is vac referenced and be good :)

[Rhino79]

thats easy for you to say lol..is there a tutorial to setting that up on here? setting up injectors is the only thing that i really havent figured out yet..

First off, wecome to another PT.NET member, remember that the SVO's are rated at 43 p.s.i., and your system runs approx 58 p.s.i, so you'll need to enter them in the injector flow rate table around 36 lbers to start with.

[Rhino79]

30lbs SVO's I believe are rated at 43.5 psi. so at 60 psi, they will be 41.379 lbs. Should be able to put that across the board in your IFR table as long as your pressure reg is vac referenced and be good :)

KB, how are you figuring the IRF, I am not saying you're wrong as I probably am, but I used Redhardsupra's spreadsheet and came up with 36 lb/hr.

[kbracing96]

30Lbs/hr / 43.5lbs *60lbs=41.379 Makes since to me???

[joecar]

Remove the MAP reference line and measure fuel rail pressure, call this 60 psi;

(if you don't wan't to remove the reference line, calculate rail pressure - MAP + BARO, using the same units thru-out)
(repeat for various values of MAP vs rail pressure, do the calculation each time, and take the average when done).

Then go: rate = 30 lb/hr * sqrt(60 psi / 43.5 psi) = 35.23 lb/hr = 4.438 g/s

Must have the squareroot since flowrate goes as the sqrt of pressure difference.

[kbracing96]

Remove the MAP reference line and measure fuel rail pressure, call this 60 psi;

(if you don't wan't to remove the reference line, calculate rail pressure - MAP + BARO, using the same units thru-out)
(repeat for various values of MAP vs rail pressure, and do the calculation each time, and take the average when done).

Then go: rate = 30 lb/hr * sqrt(60 psi / 43.5 psi) = 35.2 lb/hr = 4.438 g/s

Must have the squareroot since rate goes as the sqrt of pressure difference.


Ok, so he need to put 35.2 lb/hr in the table, I didn't know about the sqrt part. Thanks Joe! :cheers:

[joecar]

Ok, so he need to put 35.2 lb/hr in the table, I didn't know about the sqrt part. Thanks Joe! :cheers::cheers:

[SSpdDmon]

...and adjust you rmin/default pulse width...

What about this part???

[joecar]

What about this part???That's the hard part.

[SSpdDmon]

That's what I was getting at. I still have yet to see anything that shows you how to set the pulse width tables. I know Marcin created a program that shows whether or not you have enough injector. But, there's no explanation of how to use it to figure out min. pulse width settings. Is this something that SVO would just magically know since they designed the injectors?

[ringram]

You can leave the stock min pulse width in and it will be close. Its just if you want to fine tune it to remove any slight rich points near idle.
I dont think anyone has a hard and fast method for his. Just shave a fraction of an ms off area's that cause problems as shown in the logs.

[Bruce Melton]

If the injectors are not too big the min pulse width should be fine.
If you log the pulse width at idle (not min during decel) you should be able to see if you are close to min.

[TAQuickness]

I think the key is logging your usual PID's along with IPW (either or both banks). You will want to keep an eye out for low IPW conditions and the effects on AFR. (i.e. @ 1.800ms AFR = commanded, but at 1.790ms AFR is > commanded)

If you are monitoring your IPW's during all this, you should be able to identify the lower operating range of the injector, then set your min PW's just slightly higher (0.01x). You can then adjust the small PW adjustment table to give you a little extra PW preventing the injector from hitting it's lower operational limit.

The effect can be seen al slightly richer than commanded rather than extremely lean than commanded.

BUT, trying any of this with an incorrect IFR table is pointless.

[redhardsupra]

thats easy for you to say lol..is there a tutorial to setting that up on here? setting up injectors is the only thing that i really havent figured out yet..
i dont think entering 3 numbers, two of which come with injectors, and the third one either standard or empirically measured with a cheap gauge, warrants a tutorial ;)

yes, i did write a program that pretty much emulates the fuel side of the pcm. the way you use it, you just give it paramters you're interested it, like idle, or wot, or anything else. for example for wot, you can see if the pulse width that you'll need to operate will be less than the 'window of opportunity' given rpm gives you. for idle, you can see if the pulse width that the pcm will command is above the minimal pulse width of the injector. i also used it to match 'how much boost can i run at X rpm' on a vw 1.8 turbo with dinky stock injectors. very useful utility, and i've been working on a much expanded version 2.0.
here's a link if you wanna play:

http://redhardsupra.blogspot.com/2006/08/from-airflow-to-pulse-widths.html

(right now blogger is having a 'issue' so it might not be available, try later)

[dirt_track_racer_81]

so do i set the whole {B4001} table to 41.379 or leave it kind of linear like the factory table is set to? right now i haveit linear like the factory has it..also do i need to leave my reference line on the regulator or leave it off?
37.760951
38.008971
38.194985
38.443005
38.691024
38.877038
39.125058
39.311072
39.559092
39.807111
39.993126
40.241145
40.489164
40.675179
40.923198
41.171218
41.357232

[kbracing96]

Is that the table your running now??? What injectors are in it now, The 28Lb LS1 injectors? If so, that's not the right scaling and that why it looks like your running to high DC numbers.

For the 30lb SVO's and a vac ref regulator, you should have 35.2 flat across the board with the vac hooked up to the reg. Sound like it might not have been setup right to begin with and you will probably have to re-autotune things ;)

[joecar]

kb is correct, with the vac ref'd reg. the IFR has to be flat horziontal.

[dirt_track_racer_81]

so i set it all to 35.2? what i had posted is what i put in for the 30lbers..i didnt know if it was right or not..so do i need to run my fuel pressure at 58 or 60?

[kbracing96]

35.2 flat is correct for 60psi with vac vef.

This is what it would be at 60 spi with out vac ref.:cheers:
( acording to redhardsupra (http://forum.efilive.com/member.php?u=669) spreed sheet ;) )
35.23383
35.44612
35.65715
35.86694
36.0755
36.28287
36.48905
36.69408
36.89797
37.10074
37.30241
37.50299
37.70251
37.90097
38.0984
38.29482
38.49023

[dirt_track_racer_81]

how do you get the 35.2

[Rhino79]

Your injectors are rated at 30lbs/hr based on 43.5 psi fuel pressure. Sice your system runs 60 psi the flow rate increased to 35.23 lbs/hr.
This is the formula Joecar gave:

rate = 30 lb/hr * sqrt(60 psi / 43.5 psi) = 35.23 lb/hr = 4.438 g/s

Must have the squareroot since flowrate goes as the sqrt of pressure difference.

[dirt_track_racer_81]

Your injectors are rated at 30lbs/hr based on 43.5 psi fuel pressure. Sice your system runs 60 psi the flow rate increased to 35.23 lbs/hr.
This is the formula Joecar gave:

rate = 30 lb/hr * sqrt(60 psi / 43.5 psi) = 35.23 lb/hr = 4.438 g/s

Must have the squareroot since flowrate goes as the sqrt of pressure difference.




so does the whole scale gotta be 35.2..am i correct?

[Rhino79]

Thats correct, when there is a vaccum referenced regulator, which on yours there is the IFR is the same straight across the board.

[dirt_track_racer_81]

Thats correct, when there is a vaccum referenced regulator, which on yours there is the IFR is the same straight across the board.ok what was getting me confused it that i copied the ifr table off a 2001 camaro since i had the camaro injectors..ok now i getchya..im ready to go now:cucumber:

[Rhino79]

:notacrook:

[kbracing96]

ok what was getting me confused it that i copied the ifr table off a 2001 camaro since i had the camaro injectors..ok now i getchya..im ready to go now:cucumber:
You might have had camaro injector, but you don't have a camaro fuel system (you have a return system with vac ref, camaros do not ;) )

You scale the injector off the type of fuel system you have.

I hope your all good now:D

[dirt_track_racer_81]

You might have had camaro injector, but you don't have a camaro fuel system (you have a return system with vac ref, camaros do not ;) )

You scale the injector off the type of fuel system you have.

I hope your all good now:Dim all good now..i knew the systems were different, but i copeid it real quick just to get my truck running at the time