COS5 with 60 lb injectors

[Camaro SS]

With 60 lb injectors with COS5 tuning the TPS VE table it is very rich ~ 12.5 AFR below 5% throttle position. Has anyone else seen this or know what could be done to fix this. The car is running OLSD.

[Tordne]

It's not going to be a COS or TPS VE thing... What pulse widths are you seeing in those areas?

I have SVO42's and i have rich decel and light load as well. I've spent time with the RoadRunner playing with pretty much every table and I can;t get it sorted. there is a magic line, minimum pulse width that you can't go under. If you do they just don't flow anything, on the line they flow to much for the low load areas.

[Camaro SS]

I agree with you that it isn't a COS or TPS VE thing. I tried a few things last night with the Roadrunner also with no luck. Maybe someone can chim in that has figured something out on this.

[Tordne]

Are they disc or pintle style injectors. Apparently the disc injectors can handle lower pulse widths.

So with the RoadRunner you have tried manipulating the Default and Minimum pulse width tables, as well as the Voltage Offset and Small Pulse Adjust?

What pulse widths are you seeing minimum (with DFCO off)?

[Camaro SS]

I haven't played with the pulse widths or voltage offset yet. The injectors are the Mototron 60# injectors. I am not sure if they are disc or pintle style. Here is a thread that I found on ls1tech http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6227919#post6227919&conly=

First I am going to hook up a vacuum line from the manifold to the boost reference fuel pressure regulator and see where things are then. It seems like when the fuel pressure regulator sees a vacuum it lowers the fuel pressure just like it will raise the fuel pressure when under boost. If the injectors are still flowing too much under light loads then I am going to play with the pulse width and see and that does.

[joecar]

I haven't played with the pulse widths or voltage offset yet. The injectors are the Mototron 60# injectors. I am not sure if they are disc or pintle style. Here is a thread that I found on ls1tech http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6227919#post6227919&conly=

First I am going to hook up a vacuum line from the manifold to the boost reference fuel pressure regulator and see where things are then. It seems like when the fuel pressure regulator sees a vacuum it lowers the fuel pressure just like it will raise the fuel pressure when under boost. If the injectors are still flowing too much under light loads then I am going to play with the pulse width and see and that does.If you have a MAP-referenced regulator, then your IFR table has to be flat horizontal... you calculate the IFR value from the rated flowrtate/pressure and the rail pressure measured with the reference hose temporarily removed;

See post #8 of this thread: showthread.php?t=3904 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=3904)

yes, vacuum lowers fuel pressure (because vacuum assists injector flow), and boost raises it (because boost impedes injector flow); the aim of MAP-referenced regulator is to keep the pressure difference across an injector constant regardless of MAP (i.e. from the point of view of the injector and it's two ends).

[Camaro SS]

I flat lined the IFR table, hooked up a vacuum line to the MAP-referenced FPR, and even lowered the injector pulse width and it is still rich below 5% throttle position (~12.5 AFR). It seems like nothing I do has any effect on it.

[TAQuickness]

What is your commanded pulse width during this richness?

[Camaro SS]

Damnit, I thought I saved that log. Before I flat lined the IFR table, hooked up the vacuum line, and lowered the pulse width it was 1.846. I lowered the minimum injector pulse width and the default injector pulse width to 1.15 from 2k rpms and below. I didn't change the small pulse adjust. I know this doesn't help much until I get you all more data. :bash:

[redhardsupra]

camaross, did you ever figure it out? i have a similar case and i'd like to know if there's a solution

[onfire]

This is what I use with COS5 and 60lb mototrons. Idles at 14.7 if I want it to.

[onfire]

LABELS Injector Flow Rate (Grams/Second)
Manifold Vacuum kPa Value
0 9.125000
5 8.625000
10 8.164063
15 8.210938
20 8.257813
25 8.304688
30 8.359375
35 8.406250
40 8.453125
45 8.500000
50 8.546875
55 8.593750
60 8.640625
65 8.601563
70 8.687500
75 8.812500
80 9.023438

[onfire]

LABELS Injector Voltage Correction (Factor)
Volts Value
4.5 1.000000
5.0 1.000000
5.5 1.000000
6.0 1.000000
6.5 1.000000
7.0 1.000000
7.5 1.000000
8.0 1.000000
8.5 1.000000
9.0 1.000000
9.5 1.000000
10.0 1.000000
10.5 1.000000
11.0 1.000000
11.5 1.000000
12.0 1.000000
12.5 1.000000
13.0 1.000000
13.5 1.000000
14.0 1.000000
14.5 1.000000
15.0 1.000000
15.5 1.000000
16.0 1.000000
16.5 1.000000
17.0 1.000000
17.5 1.000000
18.0 1.000000

[onfire]

LABELS Minimum Injector Pulse Width (Milliseconds)
RPM Value
0 1.003036
400 1.003036
800 1.003036
1200 1.003036
1600 1.003036
2000 1.003036
2400 1.003036
2800 1.003036
3200 1.003036
3600 1.003036
4000 1.003036
4400 1.003036
4800 1.003036
5200 1.003036
5600 1.003036
6000 1.003036
6400 1.003036
6800 1.003036
7200 1.003036
7600 1.003036
8000 1.003036

[onfire]

LABELS Default Minimum Pulse Width (Milliseconds)
RPM Value
0 1.276591
400 1.276591
800 1.276591
1200 1.276591
1600 1.276591
2000 1.276591
2400 1.276591
2800 1.276591
3200 1.276591
3600 1.276591
4000 1.276591
4400 1.276591
4800 1.276591
5200 1.276591
5600 1.276591
6000 1.276591
6400 1.276591
6800 1.276591
7200 1.276591
7600 1.276591
8000 1.276591

[Tordne]

It will look like shit posted, but what values are in your B3701 (offset) table?

[redhardsupra]

how about just making them into text files or excel and just posting it as a whole pack?

[Camaro SS]

It is my buddies car and I have been busy travelly for work and haven't had a chance to try anything else. When I get a chance to log and mess with his car I will post up.

[onfire]

LABELS Battery Volts
Manifold Vacuum kPa 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 8.5 9.0 9.5 10.0 10.5 11.0 11.5 12.0 12.5 13.0 13.5 14.0 14.5 15.0 15.5 16.0 16.5 17.0 17.5 18.0
0 8.784160 8.784160 8.784160 3.571415 2.902724 2.234034 1.914886 1.595738 1.398171 1.215801 1.079023 0.942246 0.851060 0.759875 0.744678 0.729480 0.638295 0.547110 0.471123 0.379938 0.349543 0.303950 0.273555 0.243160 0.197568 0.167173 0.136778 0.106383
5 8.814555 8.814555 8.814555 3.601810 2.933119 2.249231 1.930084 1.610936 1.413368 1.215801 1.079023 0.957443 0.896653 0.835863 0.790270 0.729480 0.653493 0.592703 0.516715 0.455925 0.379938 0.319148 0.288753 0.258358 0.212765 0.182370 0.151975 0.121580
10 8.860148 8.860148 8.860148 3.647402 2.963514 2.279626 1.945281 1.626133 1.428566 1.230998 1.094221 0.957443 0.896653 0.835863 0.790270 0.729480 0.668690 0.592703 0.531913 0.455925 0.395135 0.319148 0.288753 0.258358 0.227963 0.197568 0.167173 0.136778
15 8.890543 8.890543 8.890543 3.677797 2.978712 2.294824 1.960479 1.641331 1.443763 1.230998 1.094221 0.957443 0.896653 0.851060 0.790270 0.744678 0.668690 0.607900 0.531913 0.471123 0.395135 0.334345 0.303950 0.273555 0.243160 0.212765 0.167173 0.136778
20 8.936135 8.936135 8.936135 3.708192 3.009107 2.310021 1.975676 1.656528 1.443763 1.246196 1.094221 0.957443 0.866258 0.775073 0.759875 0.744678 0.668690 0.607900 0.547110 0.471123 0.410333 0.334345 0.303950 0.273555 0.243160 0.212765 0.182370 0.151975
25 8.996925 8.996925 8.996925 3.768982 3.054699 2.325219 1.990874 1.656528 1.458961 1.246196 1.109418 0.972641 0.911851 0.851060 0.805468 0.744678 0.683888 0.607900 0.547110 0.471123 0.410333 0.334345 0.303950 0.273555 0.243160 0.212765 0.182370 0.151975
30 9.057715 9.057715 9.057715 3.829772 3.085094 2.340416 2.006071 1.671726 1.474158 1.261393 1.124616 0.972641 0.927048 0.866258 0.805468 0.759875 0.683888 0.623098 0.547110 0.486320 0.410333 0.334345 0.303950 0.273555 0.243160 0.212765 0.167173 0.136778
35 9.118505 9.118505 9.118505 3.890562 3.130687 2.370811 2.021269 1.686923 1.474158 1.276591 1.124616 0.987838 0.927048 0.866258 0.820665 0.759875 0.699085 0.623098 0.547110 0.486320 0.410333 0.334345 0.303950 0.273555 0.243160 0.197568 0.167173 0.136778
40 9.179295 9.179295 9.179295 3.951352 3.176279 2.386009 2.036466 1.686923 1.489356 1.276591 1.139813 0.987838 0.881456 0.790270 0.775073 0.775073 0.699085 0.623098 0.562308 0.486320 0.410333 0.334345 0.303950 0.273555 0.243160 0.197568 0.167173 0.136778
45 9.224888 9.224888 9.224888 3.996945 3.206674 2.401206 2.051664 1.702121 1.489356 1.276591 1.139813 0.987838 0.942246 0.881456 0.820665 0.775073 0.699085 0.623098 0.547110 0.486320 0.410333 0.334345 0.303950 0.273555 0.227963 0.197568 0.167173 0.121580
50 9.270480 9.270480 9.270480 4.057735 3.237069 2.416404 2.066861 1.717318 1.489356 1.276591 1.139813 1.003036 0.942246 0.881456 0.820665 0.775073 0.699085 0.623098 0.547110 0.471123 0.410333 0.334345 0.303950 0.258358 0.227963 0.197568 0.167173 0.121580
55 9.316073 9.316073 9.316073 4.103327 3.267464 2.446799 2.082059 1.717318 1.504553 1.276591 1.139813 1.003036 0.942246 0.881456 0.820665 0.759875 0.699085 0.623098 0.547110 0.471123 0.395135 0.319148 0.288753 0.258358 0.227963 0.197568 0.151975 0.121580
60 9.361665 9.361665 9.361665 4.148920 3.297859 2.461996 2.097256 1.732516 1.504553 1.276591 1.139813 1.003036 0.896653 0.790270 0.775073 0.759875 0.683888 0.607900 0.547110 0.471123 0.395135 0.319148 0.288753 0.258358 0.227963 0.182370 0.151975 0.121580
65 9.437653 9.437653 9.437653 4.209710 3.343452 2.477194 2.112454 1.747714 1.504553 1.276591 1.139813 1.018233 0.942246 0.881456 0.820665 0.759875 0.683888 0.623098 0.547110 0.471123 0.395135 0.319148 0.288753 0.258358 0.227963 0.182370 0.151975 0.121580
70 9.498443 9.498443 9.498443 4.285697 3.373847 2.477194 2.112454 1.747714 1.519751 1.291788 1.155011 1.018233 0.957443 0.896653 0.835863 0.775073 0.699085 0.623098 0.547110 0.471123 0.395135 0.319148 0.288753 0.258358 0.227963 0.182370 0.151975 0.121580
75 9.559233 9.559233 9.559233 4.346488 3.419439 2.492391 2.127651 1.762911 1.519751 1.291788 1.155011 1.018233 0.957443 0.896653 0.835863 0.775073 0.699085 0.623098 0.547110 0.471123 0.395135 0.319148 0.288753 0.258358 0.227963 0.182370 0.151975 0.121580
80 9.635221 9.635221 9.635221 4.422475 3.465032 2.507589 2.142849 1.762911 1.534948 1.306986 1.155011 1.018233 0.911851 0.805468 0.790270 0.775073 0.699085 0.623098 0.547110 0.471123 0.395135 0.319148 0.288753 0.258358 0.227963 0.182370 0.151975 0.121580

[Tordne]

Were did that table originate from?

[onfire]

I've modified COS5 so much to get the results I wanted with 60lb/hr Mototrons, that I'm not sure.

Chad was a great help to get me started.....could have been his.

Car idles perfectly at 14.7 if I command it. I've decided to stay with OL 3bar SD since it runs well that way.

[redhardsupra]

onfire: care to share what have you modified, and the reasoning behind it? i've been fighting with some 60s on a stock motor + turbo and no matter what i do, the idle stays very rich.

[ringram]

Your Low map IFR looks interesting. Kind of mimics some stock ones which start higher then drop down.
That and min pulse are the main changes by the looks.
.. all good information for my VE Holden L98 twinscrew project!