Real-Time Automated Calibration System (RTACS)

[GMPX]

Real-Time Automated Calibration System (RTACS) for GenIII

EFILive’s R&D labs have produced the world’s first Real-Time Automated Calibration System (RTACS) for the LS1 PCMs. Based on the high performance Roadrunner real-time hardware; RTACS is a natural extension of EFILive's tightly integrated Scan/Tune feedback loop, used by tuners around the world for over 12 months.

RTACS uses feedback from a Wide Band O2 sensor to allow the EFILive software to automatically adjust the VE Table (as an example) in realtime so the PCM's commanded Air Fuel Ratio's match those measured by the Wide Band O2 sensor. Because EFILive and RoadRunner use High Speed USB ports there is no lag in the real time system and changes happen instantly.

With new features such as Map Masking, Data Filters, Target Indicators and both Fine and Coarse adjustments, EFILive’s real time tuning solution is impossible to beat.

Map Masking allows the tuner to restrict the target cells so that the real-time calibration adjustments are applied to only that user defined subset of cells.

Data Filters remove data spikes and transient values that would otherwise skew the feedback loop and produce erroneous results.

Target Indicators highlight the cells that are within the correct percentage.

Fine and Course adjustments allow for large adjustment early, followed by finer adjustments as the automated process nears completion.

The EFILive RTACS feature gives your LS1 PCM true real time automatic tuning capabilities, normally only found in expensive aftermarket EFI computers designed for racing applications.

EFILive’s RTACS is currently in beta testing and we expect it to be available in a week or two, along with some other software enhancements.
As usual EFILive’s free software update policy means ALL EFILive customers will be able to download the new software package free of charge and those with access to a RoadRunner PCM can start using the real time, automated, calibration adjustments.

Thanks,
The EFILive Team

http://efidownload.iqd.co.nz/images/RTACS_Large.png

[TAQuickness]

This is awesome Ross!

I may need to order my RR now instead of holding off for my trip to BR.

[ringram]

Yay, where is the download? :D

[redhardsupra]

so it's basically continous series of copy and pastes of BEN's over the VE table?

can you apply the same process to any other histogram/table?

[Black02SS]

I am going to say yes you can. If you have the correct pids selected, then it "should" be able to do what you want. Once I get more information on it and have a chance to play with it, I'll report back some more information.

[wait4me]

:) This is the BEST! Im using it all day today!

[TAQuickness]

Grind it in Jess :D

[Garry]

Looks like this will make life easier for all of you professional tuners out there ;)

[TAQuickness]

This should make everyone's life a bit easier.

[Black02SS]

I'll let you know soon enough. :)

[Tordne]

Yup, this is very cool. Works very well!

[Redline Motorsports]

Great...............now we are all being phased out as tuners! LOL!!!

This is too cool! Glad I bought my RR unit!:cheers:

When can us regular guys starting playing with it! .............Jess.....LOL!!

Howard

[Chalky]

Yup, this is very cool. Works very well!

Andrew:

You need to quit teasing other users with your dashboards and now RTT from RR! You're killing me and forcing me to spend money!!:muahaha:

Very impressive upgrade and free to boot. I am impressed.:master:

[Tordne]

The first obvious use for this is on the VE Table. Think bigger :)

This can also be used for MAF correction, Desired Airflow (RAFIG) + more.

Craig Moates: If you're watching time to get busy building RoadRunners my friend!

[wait4me]

An automatic timing table setup is nice too.

[ringram]

Ah, thats what I was wondering, just posted on ls1tech about using it for timing.
Are you saying you can take dyno input on the serial and make a map to adjust timing to peak torque?
Now that is FU*KEN COOL!
Im assuming the same can be done for AFR under PE too!

Ok, cancel the above comment just read your post on tech jessie.

Cool. What dyno's support the input?

[joecar]

Wow, very cool, very nice. :cheers:

[AustinL911A]

Would you be able to auto tune a custom OS? Say, OS5, mainly for boost?

[Tordne]

Right now the testing is being mainly conducted against the VE Table. But like I mentioned brielfy before there are absolutely other applications/opportunities.

The key thing is having a PID that returns a value as a factor, like the BEN value. So you could also apply this by creating a factor based PID to work off of LTFT data for those without a WB. Just an example of course.

[ringram]

Yeah, figuring out max torque at min timing would be harder. You could handle it in software, but not really in a map. You would need a 4D map or something. g/cyl x torque x timing x rpm

[Redline Motorsports]

Yeah, figuring out max torque at min timing would be harder. You could handle it in software, but not really in a map. You would need a 4D map or something. g/cyl x torque x timing x rpm
\
This is my big question......

AFR is pretty cut and dry. Commanded vs. actual and dial it it. Timing is something that is not as cut and dry. I know when I tune aftermarket DFI systems that we keep adding timing, under load, until we reach max torque and then back off a couple degrees.

I guess you would really need to tie FS into output of a load controlled dyno to look at max values and then calculate the timing added vs. the previous gain in torque to determine when you've reached peak cylinder pressure.

I am not sure if auto adding timing, under steady load, until you hit KR is an option as well. Personally I think when you hit KR you can be as much as 4 degrees off from optimal at times and tuning for peak torque doesn't seem to get you close to KR.

Howard

[TAQuickness]

Howard - I think everything you just described can be resolved with a fancy custom PID

[Redline Motorsports]

I assume you mean with the KR concept?? Still not sure on who's dyno is going to be the one that has the output capability to input torque values.

My feeling is that Live and a couple of the known dyno companies are in a political game as to which one will be the manufacture that will integrate with Live.

I would like to think that Dyno Dynamics and Live can work it out..............:bash:

Someone needs to spill the beans already!

Regarding the custom PID, what are your thoughts on the data required?

[dc_justin]

I know when I tune aftermarket DFI systems that we keep adding timing, under load, until we reach max torque and then back off a couple degrees.

Why do you back it off a couple of degrees from peak torque?

[wait4me]

It just adds a cushion so it dont kr in different hotter temps.

[dc_justin]

It just adds a cushion so it dont kr in different hotter temps.

IAT correction table can handle that.

I can understand people who don't use a dyno backing timing off a few degrees from the point of detonation, since detonation begins to occur at some point after peak torque. But not when using a dyno...

[Redline Motorsports]

I keep adding timing until torque stops climbing is what I meant. You end up adding timing beyond peak as thats how you know you've past peak. Once it starts flattening out I back off a couple.

Like jess said, your there!

[dc_justin]

I keep adding timing until torque stops climbing is what I meant. You end up adding timing beyond peak as thats how you know you've past peak. Once it starts flattening out I back off a couple.

Like jess said, your there!

Okay, so you're running minimum best torque timing then. Your previous post sounded like you were finding MBT and then backing it off a few degrees. :cheers:

[wait4me]

Im aware of the iat timing, i was saying when using other aftermarket systems that dont have it turned on with iat spark compensation. I was referencing what Howard said when he was tuning aftermarket controllers. :)

[Redline Motorsports]

I guess a better way of explaining it is that I am hitting peak cylinder pressure and going a few degrees past it to fully determine I have reached peak. The couple degrees that are retarded after should put me back at peak. Basically over shooting it to test the waters.

Bring this thread back to Live, how are we going to acomplish the same steps with the RTACS??

[mnotx]

Fantastic idea. Is there any chance one of you distributers will put together kits of this nature? You know, a tried and true wide band along with the Road Runner and all the necessary wiring, vehicle specific instructions, fully tested, etc. Might make a good selling package here in the U.S.

I have noticed that we tend to want a whole package that has been tested, rather than make our own selections and possibly make a mistake. (A good example is the HID kits for Vettes on the other forum. The tested kits put together by one of the shops in Lubbock is selling faster than he can make them-they are plug and play. The untested kits being sold had some glitches and have turned into a nightmare for the vendors.)

When the customer sees that everything is already there, has been tested in his vehicle, and has instructions he can follow, it makes purchasing a lot easier. Just a suggestion.

I'll buy one for a C5 Corvette. :-)

[Black02SS]

I have a few packages that I offer to certain needs of the customer. They contain everything you need to get going, except vehicle specific instructions. That is something we are working on for the future.

[Bruce Melton]

I have a few packages that I offer to certain needs of the customer. They contain everything you need to get going, except vehicle specific instructions. That is something we are working on for the future.

What if the needs of the customer include justifying yet another $800?

For the low volume user a rental program sounds like a hot setup--

[mnotx]

I have a few packages that I offer to certain needs of the customer. They contain everything you need to get going, except vehicle specific instructions. That is something we are working on for the future.

Great! I only tune as a hobby and am not trained, nor well experienced. What I know I have learned from this forum. There are probably quite a few out there like me. Since I haven't had the chance to try different wide bands with EFI, nor test them combined with Road Runner, I am uncertain about what to purchase. And then there is the different wiring procedures for different products to contend with. A tested kit with vehicle specific instructions would sure make the decision a great deal easier.

Please keep me informed of your vehicle specific systems and instructions. I am looking for this type of setup for my vette (wideband, Roadrunner combination-I already have V2).

[ringram]

LC1 works fine usually. I think the GLM guys use that too. Go for 2 of them for super tuner geekyness.

[FreddyG]

This is so COOL! I've been fighting my way through this tuning stuff and trying to learn everything that I can, but you guys are making this WAAAAAAAy too easy! I Sincerely Appreciate that! Thank You! :cheers:

Can you Please tell us when this will be available? RoadRunner sales are going to go through the roof, and I might be buying one from GLM (providing Chad will set it up for me :D ).

[joecar]

Great! I only tune as a hobby and am not trained, nor well experienced. What I know I have learned from this forum. There are probably quite a few out there like me. Since I haven't had the chance to try different wide bands with EFI, nor test them combined with Road Runner, I am uncertain about what to purchase. And then there is the different wiring procedures for different products to contend with. A tested kit with vehicle specific instructions would sure make the decision a great deal easier.

Please keep me informed of your vehicle specific systems and instructions. I am looking for this type of setup for my vette (wideband, Roadrunner combination-I already have V2).
I agree... I'm a DIY on a budget, so a package of working proven components helps, and saves money in the long run. :cheers:

Now to work on that budget... :muahaha:

[Whippled 496]

okay, so i have a WB and EFILive commercial. What would it cost me to get going with this new feature? RR looks like it costs about $600, would that be all i need to do?

[Tordne]

You need the following:
1) RoadRunner: $599
2) EFILive Realtime Tuning License: $199

[tazinhawaii]

I know you said the beta will be out in a week, but will a link be posted here? I have roadrunner, wide band, etc. and I can't wait to use this!!! Maybe I won't pull out the rest of my hair trying to tune this thing now.

Derrick

[Tordne]

We'll definitely let you all know when this hit the public in what we anticipate to be a week or two. All the glue that binds this is very solid :)

[GMPX]

Derrick, we will post here in the forum, plus there will be something posted in the news section on the website -
http://www.efilive.com/news.aspx

Cheers,
Ross

[Redline Motorsports]

Timing,timing timing!!! How do we utilize the RTACS to dial in the timing!:nixweiss:

The power is in the timing!!!!!!

Howard

[ScarabEpic22]

So you do have to buy RTT for this to work though, correct? Unfortunately it doesnt apply to me so I dont have to worry...

[Chalky]

I have a few packages that I offer to certain needs of the customer. They contain everything you need to get going, except vehicle specific instructions. That is something we are working on for the future.

Chad: Great promotions. Thanks for the great package and pricing! Now I have to wait from the mailman to come back to work

[Extinct]

This will be huge - real time automated optimization of timing and fuel. With the right PID's you should even be able to use the road dyno.

[5.3]

this is incredible just frigin incredible wooooooowww... just placed an order for the road runner hope there still in stock and not back ordered already sheesh...

im thinking out laud here can this be done without road runner like auto scan/tune then turn car off and upload tune ????

[Black02SS]

Chad: Great promotions. Thanks for the great package and pricing! Now I have to wait from the mailman to come back to work
Thanks!! Gald to see they are working out for people. I have had some nice feedback on the packages.

:cheers:

[redhardsupra]

This will be huge - real time automated optimization of timing and fuel. With the right PID's you should even be able to use the road dyno.

well, only when people in this country learn what inertia dyno is and what it really measures. dynojets and mustangs are precise enough to measure an earthquake, not single misfires and changes in power made by 1* spark adjustments.

[ringram]

When I was dialing in spark the other week, the numbers were going all over, its kind of like trying to read a sheet of newspaper in a hurricane. You can get close, but probably only at a push within 1 deg accuracy, certainly not .1 etc.

[superls1]

Timing,timing timing!!! How do we utilize the RTACS to dial in the timing!:nixweiss:

The power is in the timing!!!!!!

Howard

Is somebody working with one or multiple Dyno manufacturers to provide some sort of standard 0-5V output that can be calibrated (0V = 0 TQ and 5V = 1000 TQ)? If so, that would be great. Otherwise, how is the TQ value from the Dyno going to be input into EFILive? I don't see a PID solving this problem unless your plan is to rely on something like Power at the Wheels (calculated), Delivered Torque, or Delivered Engine Torque.

I would want to know much more about these parameters before basing my spark table off of them (if something like that is the idea):
- how they are determined/calculated
- how modifications affect them
- whether or not they match up to actual dyno output either in actual value (not in my experience) or in general trends (somewhat)
- whether or not they actually peak where cylinder pressure actually peaks
- how sensitive the parameters are vs how sensitive the true torque curve is (there have been some interesting studies done on MBT, TQ curves, etc over the past couple of years; I spent a week at MIT last summer at an IC Engine course)
- etc.

Howard is right though. A/F is not much of challenge nor are its results nearly as rewarding (with regard to power) as timing.

[joecar]

I think they will able to transmit torque/power in digital form thru the serial port on the V2.

[Extinct]

well, only when people in this country learn what inertia dyno is and what it really measures. dynojets and mustangs are precise enough to measure an earthquake, not single misfires and changes in power made by 1* spark adjustments.

Note I said "road" dyno - as in the asphalt !

[superls1]

I think they will able to transmit torque/power in digital form thru the serial port on the V2.

Not saying it can't be done. Just wondering how. If it is going to come from the dyno, anybody know which ones we're talking about? I visited just about all of the dyno manufacturers at PRI, and I have used several different dynos both chasis and engine. I can't recall any that have the TQ value as an A/D output available in real time. I am going to check with Superflow tomorrow. They have one of the best software packages (IMO). Their software allows users to build 'custom' tests that can be applied/run. I have never tried (or looked) to see if it could provide TQ as an output. That would be cool. It would be fairly easy to write a couple scripts that would help one run through the spark tables.

[joecar]

If the dyno can "print" TQ/HP as "text" on it's serial output, Paul can program the V2 to parse it's serial input stream.

[ringram]

Some support serial output now... apparently.
Ive asked which ones too. Ill ask my local dyno bod.

[GMPX]

Serial output (or CAN) is how it will be captured.
The serial port on V2 was put there just for this purpose (and the old OBD-I comms).
Just need everyone to play ball with us now :)

Cheers,
Ross

[superls1]

Serial output (or CAN) is how it will be captured.
The serial port on V2 was put there just for this purpose (and the old OBD-I comms).
Just need everyone to play ball with us now :)

Cheers,
Ross

Do any of them of them output the value real time through a serial port currently? I realize we have the ability to print the dyno data, but that is after the fact (i.e. after the data has been captured). Would be nice, or I hope they do decide to play ball. :)

[lplott]

If I understand this correctly, this will basically make AutoVE obsolete...But we will need to buy RoadRunner and an EFILive License, correct?

Lonnie

[Doc]

I would not call AutoVE "obsolete" since the process now promisses to be really "Automated" with the new realtime feedback loop. In order to take advantage of this cool new feature you will need a Licesened RR. Think of this as the difference btw driving a stick and an automatic. In this case you still get the awesome performance of EFI Live only now it can "Shift" for you.

[Redline Motorsports]

Serial output (or CAN) is how it will be captured.
The serial port on V2 was put there just for this purpose (and the old OBD-I comms).
Just need everyone to play ball with us now :)

Cheers,
Ross

PLAY BALL! :notacrook:

Ross, can you give a guestimate on when you will throw the first pitch??

Howard

[Tordne]

First ball thrown - it was a strike :muahaha:

[jsttry]

Can't wait to have a play with this with Delco while he's visiting me next week.

[bink]

WOW!
I just found this thread/announcement. Seems like I walked through a time warp into the future.
Congrats to ALL!!

Cheers,
joel

oh, and Tordne......I'm glad you put the Def of "Tordne" in your avatar. I would bet the cumulative time/energy spent, by all on this site/board, in trying to understand......err...decipher "Tordne" is fairly high. :mrgreen:

[Tordne]

oh, and Tordne......I'm glad you put the Def of "Tordne" in your avatar. I would bet the cumulative time/energy spent, by all on this site/board, in trying to understand......err...decipher "Tordne" is fairly high. :mrgreen:

LOL.. Yeah I figured as much :).. It was all I could think of when I had to think of a handle on the forums :bash:

[lplott]

Will this work with V1 or will I have to buy V2 as well?

Lonnie

[Tordne]

This will work with either FlashScan V1 or V2, as ether tool is able to supply the required scan data stream. The key ingredient is that the RoadRunner Realtime PCM is required.

[ringram]

v1 is fine dude. Its all in the software. RR only supports LS1 PCM's at present anyway. Craig wasnt too keen on LS2 stuff a while back.
I guess he might change his mind eventually. But there is way more variance with the E40 / E38 / E67 all coming out over a short time, whereas LS1 PCM ran 99-05 pretty much.

[jsttry]

Could this be used without a RoadRunner to simply allow you to update your VE table without the extra copy/paste step and then manually flash back in?

[Tordne]

The process will physically work, but it won't really work without the RoadRunner. Here's the simple reason....

What happens with RTACS is that the Scan data comes in (as it normally does) and the Tune Tool now looks at the BEN value (using a simple example). Lets say the BE value is something simple like 1.10. Depending on if your are using 'Fine' or 'Course' control it will update the VE Table with 2% or 10% respectively of the seen scan data. It does this so that it obviously doesn't over shoot etc.

This process is repeated over and over and over. The problem with not having the RoadRunner is simple. Because there is no real time update to the PCM it is never actually changing the value. So again using or simple example. If you had a constant BEN of 1.10 and help the cell on a dyno say, the value in the VE would simple keep being lowered as it is effectively seeing no improvement to the tune. Whereas with the RoadRunner the BEN factor should start getting closer to 1.00.

God, I hope that is readable and makes sense?

[Doc]

Very clear. Any news to report on progress twds release?

[Tordne]

It looking very good. We are working through one issue currently. Paul has changed some code and that is expected to be released to the closed Beta group in the next few days.

Once we are satisfied that this issue is resolved it should be good for public release. That is obviously solely up to Paul/Ross ;)

[ToplessTexan]

Is somebody working with one or multiple Dyno manufacturers to provide some sort of standard 0-5V output that can be calibrated (0V = 0 TQ and 5V = 1000 TQ)? If so, that would be great. Otherwise, how is the TQ value from the Dyno going to be input into EFILive? I don't see a PID solving this problem unless your plan is to rely on something like Power at the Wheels (calculated), Delivered Torque, or Delivered Engine Torque.

Along the same lines, is anybody using pressure sensors in their tuning? I get all hot and bothered thinking about the incorporation of that kind of information in a closed control loop. (I'm an adaptive systems guy in real life.) I know that's a bit spendy (say maybe an order of magnitude beyond a RR setup), but I'm curious how many here might already be using that kind of technology. The folks I've talked too aren't currently involved in any closed loop tuning, but they didn't seem uninterested. I'm always on the lookout for measuring instruments that could be alternatives (or even just augmentations) to dynos. Gas analyzers would be another example.

[dc_justin]

Gas analyzers would be another example.

Seems that would be a great method for optimizing a modified system for an emissions test!

[tazinhawaii]

When is this coming??? I'm getting a little anxious. :Eyecrazy:

[John@SDPC]

Along the same lines, is anybody using pressure sensors in their tuning? I get all hot and bothered thinking about the incorporation of that kind of information in a closed control loop. (I'm an adaptive systems guy in real life.) I know that's a bit spendy (say maybe an order of magnitude beyond a RR setup), but I'm curious how many here might already be using that kind of technology. The folks I've talked too aren't currently involved in any closed loop tuning, but they didn't seem uninterested. I'm always on the lookout for measuring instruments that could be alternatives (or even just augmentations) to dynos. Gas analyzers would be another example.

Right now, cylinder pressure analysis equipment is generally expensive. These guys (http://www.tfxengine.com/) have an affordable dyno setup and a reasonably priced in car setup. Can't wait to get mine. :)

The next best thing and possibly more likely to occur is ion sensing technology. I had the good fortune to test/play with an ion sensing ignition system (http://www.woodward.com/engine/smartfire.cfm?) last summer. Interesting technology. Maybe you won't even need a dyno to determine peak pressure. :) I believe the M5 uses some type of ion sensing for spark management (http://www.europeancarweb.com/features/0501ec_e60_m5_engine/).

After seeing this announcement, I did call some of the dyno manufacturers. SuperFlow will provide you access to their software through an API. You can set it up to provide real-time torque as an output. Still not for sure about getting the data into EFILive, but at least there is some potential.

[TAQuickness]

Hi John - Welcome to the forum! Thanks for posting that information - should be helpfull for more than a few of us ;)

[joecar]

John, welcome to the forum. Interesting info... :cheers:

[oztracktuning]

I would love to know more John about both of these systems. It looks like the way of the future along with the EFILve Roadrunner RTACS system

[ScarabEpic22]

That ion sensing article with the BMW M5 was pretty interesting, I just finished reading it. Sounds like the future of igition systems, the standard spark plug has to advance (well it has already, but more so like the advances in engine management aka PCM/ECM/TCM and EFILive) sooner or later like the rest of engines.

[John@SDPC]

I was able to visit the Woodward facility with EFI University. I am one of their instructors. I think Ben was going to try to integrate the SmartFire ignition system into his weeklong class or create an advanced class using an engine dyno and incorporate it there.

OEM’s are interested in ion sensing (IMO) for improved emissions control. Essentially, the ion feedback is like an EKG. If there is a flat line (no fire), then the ignition system could fire again in attempt to reduce emissions. With enough intelligence, the system should also be able to better determine knock (this may be tricky) and optimal timing.

There are two distinct interactions that occur after the spark fires. One is a chemical reaction and the other is a thermal reaction. The first reaction is of no significance other than indicating the spark did indeed occur, and that there was enough feedback to measure it.

The second reaction is of more importance. This is where the current being returned through the circuit (i.e. current flow across the plug) can indicate where peak pressure is occurring. IIRC, the current is very low, micro amps. The peak of the second reaction is where peak pressure is occurring. Thus, timing could be altered to maximize pressure at the appropriate crank angle. I don’t believe the magnitude of the second reaction is directly related to a specific amount of pressure.

Knock is not as straight forward as determining peak pressure. Significant knock events are easily recognized. Smaller knock events are more difficult to detect because there is significant activity and motion in the chamber during the burn. There are a certain number of inflections (changes in the current) that occur. At some point, the software must determine what is an acceptable amount of inflections and whether or not knock is truly present. I will see if I have some pic’s to upload.

BTW, I did check with the two most widely used dynos. One indicated they had no knowledge of anything being offered in the way of torque as any type of output. The other indicated that while it was not currently in discussion, that it could easily be done either through a serial stream or even a programmable analog 0-5v reference.

[5.7ute]

A friend of mine has an old dyno that measures torque via an arm that pressurises a brake master cylinder. This then uses the brake pressure to run to a guage to get your torque reading.
I was thinking about running a rod from this torque arm to a TPS which could then give a 0-5V reading for torque. Or maybe even a pressure switch like the fuel pressure sender set up.
While this is a bit agricultural I am sure that it would help in getting a reasonable baseline for spark until they release their own output on the dyno.

[joecar]

Ion sensing is very high tech and difficult to do (spark plugs now become "sensors")... it will be interesting to see the OEMs integrate this new tech into daily drivers. :cheers:

[Biggsy]

A friend of mine has an old dyno that measures torque via an arm that pressurises a brake master cylinder. This then uses the brake pressure to run to a guage to get your torque reading.
I was thinking about running a rod from this torque arm to a TPS which could then give a 0-5V reading for torque. Or maybe even a pressure switch like the fuel pressure sender set up.
While this is a bit agricultural I am sure that it would help in getting a reasonable baseline for spark until they release their own output on the dyno.

From what my understanding, the later dyno's use a load cell as an output to calculate torque.

Some digital readout scales use similar load cells to measure weight. They can be calibrated to suit vaious load cells. Some of these digital scales have analogue and digital outputs for remote readouts and recorders.

Some of the setups I see get linked with PLC's which can be quite easily programmed (if you know what yer doing) to give you a 0-5v output

Just having some thoughts out loud:)

[Doc]

Back from the dead. Has anybody ever seen anything like this???

http://www.land-and-sea.com/rotary-shaft-dyno/rotary-shaft-dyno.htm

So, if I get all of this right, with this piece of equipment one could make a calculated PID and bingo, you have a real bonafide 0-5v reading from a real torque transducer???

[dc_justin]

Back from the dead. Has anybody ever seen anything like this???

http://www.land-and-sea.com/rotary-shaft-dyno/rotary-shaft-dyno.htm

So, if I get all of this right, with this piece of equipment one could make a calculated PID and bingo, you have a real bonafide 0-5v reading from a real torque transducer???

Oooooooooo. Good find. :cheers:

[Doc]

I'm changing my shorts...

[Redline Motorsports]

Chad and I where doing some tuning this weekend at my shop and we had this same conversation. Our dyno displays real time torque readings while in "load control" mode. If we could get that value into FS we could somehow come up with a calc pid to find peak cylinder pressure. This would be VERY cool!

Howard

[ringram]

Problem is once you have found pk torque, how do you know timing is at its minimum for the pk torque. For example if 20, 21, 22 and 23 show virtually identical results you would want to use 20*

I dont think a calc pid can keep track of that. Might need some RTAC's intellegence in the software to deal with it.

[Redline Motorsports]

Problem is once you have found pk torque, how do you know timing is at its minimum for the pk torque. For example if 20, 21, 22 and 23 show virtually identical results you would want to use 20*

I dont think a calc pid can keep track of that. Might need some RTAC's intellegence in the software to deal with it.

We'll I agree that its not a slam dunk at that point but if you find a point where torque stops climbing (past peak torque) ands know the timing range that this lack of increase of torque took place, I think it can then figure out a value to deduct to where a "filter" might determine over time.

It might have to cycle the timing up and back down to figure this out. The theory is there but the RTAC will have to figure the rest out!

Howard