My tune is just hosed

[gcross]

hello all

I still need some knowledge.

I've been working with autove maybe you guys can tell me what i'm doing wrong. My idle afr is about 12 with iac steps at 130. When i adjust my ve with the auto ve the car runs like a$$. Or when I adjust the ve and have a good idle AFR 14 and 74 IAC steps, but i hit the gas and the acts like it just fell on its face.

please tell me if this is wrong, a lower number in the VE table give me a better idle but a crap accel. high number in ve gives be good accel but crap idle.

Anythoughts?

Gary

[TAQuickness]

Can you list the mods to your vehicle?

You might need to revisit the AutoVE tutorial and make a smaller global adjustment for the first drive.

[gcross]

ls1 hot cam with spring and rockers, holley 90mm, ls6 intack mod to 90, slp long tube, cat's removed, magnaflow cat back exhaust, stock heads with port and polish, k&N cold air, NGK plugs, that about it for the engine, i have enclosed the current tune of the car. Please feel free to tell me where I am messed up.

Gary

[gcross]

also all egr stuff removed

[TAQuickness]

I'm not quite sure where you got your VE table from to start with. It looks like it started with a 99 or 00. I would start over with the AutoVE tutorial and instead of adding 15%, at 5-7% to the whole VE table.

The first drive will not be perfect by any means. After you make your first corrections to the VE table, you should notice a huge improvement in drivability.

[gcross]

i'l give it a try tomorrow takes, the tune on the was first from thunder racing, i did a mail off pcm thing prior to getting efi live (bad move on my part).

[TAQuickness]

gotcha. Was the mail oder tune supposed to compensate for all the mods you listed above? If so, I would skip the add XX% step to the VE table and go from there.

[RUTAN TA]

Be carefull when you correct your VE with your fuel/pe you will be lean. Looks a little more like a ve table for a low boost car.

[gcross]

Well I gave it a try again today. With little progress. When I do the autoVe in lowers many of my cells which great for idle AFR but no power at all. I'm just thinking out loud here. But with a lower AFR that should mean I have low air flow right? And a higher the VE number the more that flows right? So why high ve number at idle lower AFR.

The mail off tune was cam, but not throtlte body and P&P.

As far as a low boost VE thnaks, I'll save that VE for if I get the STS Turbo kit.

Thanks for all your guys help.

Gary

[TAQuickness]

I'm not sure I'm following you. Can you post a current tune and coresponding log?

[gcross]

enclosed is tunes that i used today trying to auto ve, it get worst as I went.

autove 1-18 00001 goes with sdautve
autove 1-18 00002 goes with sdautove1-18-01
which gave me sdautove1-18-02

Hope this make since, by 1-18-02 top speed of car with 70 and getting there it sounded like cheap

Gary

[TAQuickness]

I'll give them a look this afternoon (don't have my tuning PC with me today).

[SSpdDmon]

Well I gave it a try again today. With little progress. When I do the autoVe in lowers many of my cells which great for idle AFR but no power at all. I'm just thinking out loud here. But with a lower AFR that should mean I have low air flow right? And a higher the VE number the more that flows right? So why high ve number at idle lower AFR.

Think of the VE as a graphical representation of how efficient the engine operates at given RPM's, temperatures, and MAP's. If you show it in it's raw form, it's (Grams*Kelvin)/kPa. The higher the value, the higher the airflow and therefore, the more fuel that will be required. Higher AFR's equal leaner conditions or scenarios where the VE isn't high enough. Lower AFR's equal richer conditions or scenarios where the VE is too high. You want the VE to accurately represent the values required to achieve the AFR seen in your B3601 cell (typically 14.6~14.7). After that, the PCM will command values using that as a base. If you're in open loop and commanding a rich 12.0:1, the PCM will use the VE as a starting point and then add in the additional fuel required on it's own.

Now if you're experiencing power issues with leaner AFR's, the problem may be more associated with timing. What have you done to your timing tables? Did you at least copy the high octane to the low?

[joecar]

Gary,

Your diagnosis "My tune is hosed" is exactly correct (sorry to say)... :)

Your B3605 OLFA table shows EQ 0.85 and 0.88 (which is Lambda 1.17 and 1.13)...

In the tune tool, go Edit->Properties->Commanded Fuel Values->Display In and set this to EQ; click OK and exit the tune tool.

throw away all your AutoVE attempts and start over from the beginning (use your initial starting tune)...

it should work this time...

Cheers
Joe
:cheers:

[VYSSLS1]

im not following as well, :nixweiss:

the higher the number, the more fuel is calcualted to be entering the cylinders.

the lower the number less fuel.

how big is the camsaft, u should be able to get the car in closed loope at idle.

Is it me or does the high end of the ve table look extreamly high, shouldnt really go over 100%

also considering your just starting to tune this car, why not go a cos3 or 5 at least and have dual spark tables.

cos 5 will give u a throttle map as well.

[VYSSLS1]

suggestion...

go to http://www.holdencrazy.com/EFILive/modifiedTunes.php

and have a look through some of these.

or even go back to a standard tune, and start from scratch.

[SSpdDmon]

Gary,

Your diagnosis "My tune is hosed" is exactly correct (sorry to say)... :)

Your B3605 OLFA table shows EQ 0.85 and 0.88 (which is Lambda 1.17 and 1.13)...

In the tune tool, go Edit->Properties->Commanded Fuel Values->Display In and set this to EQ; click OK and exit the tune tool.

throw away all your AutoVE attempts and start over from the beginning (use your initial starting tune)...

it should work this time...

Cheers
Joe
:cheers:

Yeah...make sure you know what your using (EQ vs Lamba) when looking at your fueling tables. Personally, I like to tell the software to show AFR. That way, it figures out the right values that need to go into the tune and I don't have to worry about whether or not an EQ of 1.17 equals an AFR of 12.5. If you do keep EQ or Lambda as your display values, it's very important that you pay attention to which one you use....and use it consistently.

Remember:

EQ=(Stoich/AFR) or (1/Lambda)
Lambda=(AFR/Stoich) or (1/EQ)

[joecar]

Yer, try to avoid Lambda as it can cause too much confusion.

[gcross]

Thanks to all I'll give it a shot

[gcross]

Thanks Joe the turn is working out great, also thanks to everybody else that helped out. All you guys have been a big help. EFI live is starting to all come to me now. Next I think I'll try a custom OS.

[RUTAN TA]

gcross-Did that file help?

[gcross]

yes to start with, thanks again.