RPM limit

[IdahoRob]

My 07 LBZ has a 3500 RPM limit on it. Anyone know where to play with the tunes to remove this or raise it.

Thanks,
Rob

[GMPX]

B1122 is more than likely the problem, it will limit the fuel amounts to 30mm3 at and above 3500RPM, though, because of the table interpolation the limiting will probably start to kick in at around 3300 - 3400RPM.
If you raise the values in that table at the higher RPM the value will be carried through to higher RPM's (the table ends at 3500). You also need to look at B1117, B1118 & B1119.

Cheers,
Ross

[IdahoRob]

I figured those tables would be the ticket. I'll try adjusting those today and testing.

I was also looking at the "pedal pos. to desired torque" table. Torque starts falling off at 3250rpm's and goes to 0 at 3550rpm

Ross, what is the difference between B1118 and B1119?

Thanks,
Rob

[IdahoRob]

OK, a little update.

I modded the B1118 and B1119 and still hit the 3500rpm limiter. I then modded those as well as "pedal pos. to desired torque" table and still have the RPM limiter.

I logged the runs, but haven't had time to look at them.

I'm not sure where to go from here.

EDIT: Dooouuuh, I forgot to mod the B1122 also. I'll do that and see.

Thanks,
Rob

[IdahoRob]

Well even with the B1122, B1118, B1119 modded I still have the 3500rpm limit.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

[GMPX]

Some logs would help if possible Rob, I'd like to see what the Main mm3 is dropping to if possible.

Cheers,
Ross

[IdahoRob]

Ross,

I sent a couple logs. Hope it went to the right place (support@efilive)

Looks like the main flow rate drops a bunch and the turbo vane position goes to 0 for a bit. Any way to mod the flow rate and duration like the old platform?

Thanks a bunch,
Rob

[GMPX]

Thanks Rob, I got the logs.
I forgot to ask, did you change the upper RPM cols in B1115 & B1116? I only ask because on a stock LBZ the desired torque figures plumet between 3250 and 3500 RPM (which will drop the main mm3 numbers), just like your commanded fuel drops from around 80mm3 down to 28mm3 over a similar RPM span.

Cheers,
Ross

[IdahoRob]

Thanks Rob, I got the logs.
I forgot to ask, did you change the upper RPM cols in B1115 & B1116? I only ask because on a stock LBZ the desired torque figures plumet between 3250 and 3500 RPM (which will drop the main mm3 numbers), just like your commanded fuel drops from around 80mm3 down to 28mm3 over a similar RPM span.

Cheers,
Ross

I did change B1115 and B1116 Ross. Thats what is bugging me. I can't seem to control it with any of the available tables.

Thanks for your help.

[GMPX]

I can't seem to control it with any of the available tables.

Thanks for your help.

Well, that's what you get for trying to rev it like a gasser ;) .
Did you notice if the logged torque value also dropped?
I'll keep looking I guess.

Cheers,
Ross

[IdahoRob]

Well, that's what you get for trying to rev it like a gasser ;) .
Did you notice if the logged torque value also dropped?
I'll keep looking I guess.

Cheers,
Ross

Sled pullers will need this removed. Hopefully I won't have to worry about going over 3500rpm. Truck does start pulling power before this it seems.:bash:

Torque value drops to 340's, rail pressure drops to 19k, flow rate drops, pulse time drops, turbo vane position goes to 0, etc.....

[GMPX]

I have no doubt it is a limiter based on reducing desired torque, which then has the flow on effect to all the other things you noted.

Cheers,
Ross

[GMPX]

It might be a TCM issue, if anyone has a manual transmission they can test the limit on that would be great.

Cheers,
Ross

[IdahoRob]

It might be a TCM issue, if anyone has a manual transmission they can test the limit on that would be great.

Cheers,
Ross
I'm not sure if it matters Ross, but in neutral or park it still limits it. I guess the tcm could still be in control. This is starting to hurt the performance on the truck as I amp up tunes.

[JoshH]

Rob, when you say this is hurting performance, is that because you are defueling at the top of a gear before it shifts. My truck has been doing this and I thought it was because of the stock transmission (which it may still be part of the problem) and I was hoping the co-pilot would help, but I got it all installed the other day and it didn't fix the problem. I get to the top of second gear and hit 3500 RPM and it defuels hard. That's where it does it worse, but it does it in all the gears to a smaller degree.

[IdahoRob]

Rob, when you say this is hurting performance, is that because you are defueling at the top of a gear before it shifts. My truck has been doing this and I thought it was because of the stock transmission (which it may still be part of the problem) and I was hoping the co-pilot would help, but I got it all installed the other day and it didn't fix the problem. I get to the top of second gear and hit 3500 RPM and it defuels hard. That's where it does it worse, but it does it in all the gears to a smaller degree.
Exactly Josh, at first I also thought a transmiision slip causing defuel. I don't believe this is the case. On shift under 3350rpm, the things shifts and tears the tires up. Watch a log when RPM gets over 3400 and the thing just falls on it's face. If the tranny isn't defueling at 3350, it sure shouldn't at 3400+.

[mrrattle]

Did you try turning off torque limiting?
Engine Operation > Torque reference > parameters >B1124 enable/disable

and also verify B1115 last two columns adjusted

[IdahoRob]

Did you try turning off torque limiting?
Engine Operation > Torque reference > parameters >B1124 enable/disable

and also verify B1115 last two columns adjusted

Yes torque limiting disabled and B1115 adjusted, still no go. Don't think it's possible with current software. But keep up the suggestions.:rockon:

[IdahoRob]

Looks like the PPE tuner on an allison LBZ has it removed, :bawl:

[GMPX]

Are you trying to inspire me or annoy me with that comment? ;)

Also, I cannot find the tun file you sent me with all the things you have been trying, can you please send it to me again? ross at efilive dot com.

Thanks,
Ross

[IdahoRob]

Are you trying to inspire me or annoy me with that comment? ;)

Also, I cannot find the tun file you sent me with all the things you have been trying, can you please send it to me again? ross at efilive dot com.

Thanks,
Ross

Inspire, inspire, and only inspire:D I'll send the tune file. I only sent the logs showing when the problem was happening.

Thanks Ross,
Rob

[GMPX]

Shows how bad my memory is, I thought you had sent me a .tun file!
Anyway, see how it goes with the one I sent back, I'm sure others following this thread will be interested.

Cheers,
Ross

[IdahoRob]

Shows how bad my memory is, I thought you had sent me a .tun file!
Anyway, see how it goes with the one I sent back, I'm sure others following this thread will be interested.

Cheers,
Ross

I'll load it up tomorrow and let you guys know. Thanks Ross.:notacrook:

[JoshH]

Anyway, see how it goes with the one I sent back, I'm sure others following this thread will be interested.
Yes they will!

[IdahoRob]

After looking at the changes Ross made, I had my doubts anything would be different. Well, I'm wrong again:bash:

Not sure why it worked, but the truck now revs at least up to 4000rpm's. The truck still pulls power over 3500, but not nearly as bad as hitting that 3500 wall.

I'll continue to try modding the tune to see if I can overcome the defuel, but thanks to Ross we're headed in the right direction.:rockon:

Thanks Ross, I guess I need to take my foot out of my mouth now.:D You guys have a great product and support.

[JoshH]

Okay, so what changes were made? I need to get this figured out before next weekend.

[GMPX]

Nothing super secret, it's all in there already.
Just make sure tables B1115 & B1116 have 'normal' values from 3500+ as well. Easiest way to do that is copy the column at 3000RPM and paste it in to every column up to 4000RPM.
Next, fill B1117 with 200mm3 all the way.
Then fill B1118 & B1119 with big numbers all the way to the end too.
Lastly, do the same as B1115/B1116 to B1122 (copy the column from say 2400RPM into all columns up to 3500).

That should do the trick.

Cheers,
Ross

[JoshH]

Thanks Ross. I just modded my tune so I'll get it loaded this afternoon and let you know how it works.

[IdahoRob]

What had me fooled was I went past 3500rpm with them all to no avail., just not all the way out to 4k. All except B1116 which shouldn't seem to matter. I think I might change back the four changes one at a time and see which one is the culprit.:D

[JoshH]

I think it's 1115 because I had all of them adjusted already, but I only carried 1115 and 1116 out to 3500 and at 4000 it dropped off. 1116 should only apply when in low range so I'm guessing 1115 is what was causing my problems.

[IdahoRob]

I don't think so Josh. I already had B1115 maxed out to 4k.:nixweiss: and Ross didn't change that one one my tune. I'd guess it was b1119, looks like I only had that out to the 3550rpm, I'm a dummy. Although if you had B1119 maxed out, maybe it is B1116 for some strange reason.

[JoshH]

Well, I don't know what it is. I just loaded the adjusted tune in my truck and it did nothing for the RPM limit. It still hits a wall at 3500. What am I missing? I did everything you said to do Ross.

[Cobra#3747]

I still hit the wall too. It will go past but defuels hard when it goes over 3500. I can get it to 3800 or so, but it has no power

Now my B1122 table I have set to 200, this wouldnt throw it off would it?

[IdahoRob]

Well, I don't know what it is. I just loaded the adjusted tune in my truck and it did nothing for the RPM limit. It still hits a wall at 3500. What am I missing? I did everything you said to do Ross.

Josh send me your tune and I'll look at it. You to snake, if you want. robcoddens@msn.com not that I know anything, but mine is working, but still defuels.

[Cobra#3747]

sent

[IdahoRob]

I don't know snake, the tables that Ross modded on my tune you've already modded on yours(maxed out the same). Our tunes have a different O.S. so I opened in two windows to compare. I don't see why yours doesn't run like mine, maybe it does.

I was just trying to get past 3500, now I can, but still pulls power pretty hard. We might be in the same boat....or truck.:nixweiss:

[Cobra#3747]

yea, sounds like it. I can get it to go past holding it in gear, just nothing there for power. I let off around 3800. Gotta be something in the TCM.

[IdahoRob]

yea, sounds like it. I can get it to go past holding it in gear, just nothing there for power. I let off around 3800. Gotta be something in the TCM.
Maybe we can get that stick LBZ at the place to see how his runs above 3500. That would at least rule out the TCM.

[Cobra#3747]

Here is another idea I have been kicking around, just havnt gotten around to it, but if we unplug the TCM it will default to 3rd gear (if I remember right) As long as it dosnt put the PCM in some limp mode that we cant control.

[Cobra#3747]

Just was thinking about it, I remember running LB7 with the TCM unplugged, it didnt limp the engine

[JoshH]

Rob, I'll send you my tune and you can check it out to see if you can figure anything out. Mine doesn't pull past 3500 at all. It pulls hard all the way up to it and then stops completely.

[GMPX]

Josh, feel free to send it to me too -
ross at efilive dot com

Cheers,
Ross

[JoshH]

It's on it's way. I know you guys are busy so if you don't have time to look at it I understand. Thanks.

[GMPX]

I made some more changes to B1122, see if that helps.

Cheers,
Ross

[JoshH]

Ross, I got that tune loaded up this afternoon and it is still not revving past 3500. I got another version from Rob that I'm going to load up later and see if it will do anything for me.

[Trippin]

I'm willing to take a look if you wish.

[GMPX]

Josh, that is weird considering it seems to have cured Rob's problem?
I need to get the torque factor DMA PID in, that would give us a better understanding.

Cheers,
Ross

[JoshH]

Thanks Trippin. Do you have an email address I could send it to?

I don't know what the deal is. Rob tried modifying my tune too and it didn't work either.

[Cobra#3747]

Well robs and mine will go over 3500, but the truck has no power at all doing it. Anything over 3500 is not a useable range still.

[GMPX]

OK, time for a DMA PID to show the torque reduction factor values used by B1122, B1123 etc. There may be other tables using this.

Cheers,
Ross

[Trippin]

send it to "socaldiesel at earthlink.net"

[1DURAMAX1]

How are the defueling issues coming guy's? I'm trying to get geared up for my first pull this weekend I'm just wondering how this is gonna effect me.Thanks Jason

[IdahoRob]

How are the defueling issues coming guy's? I'm trying to get geared up for my first pull this weekend I'm just wondering how this is gonna effect me.Thanks Jason

No luck so far. I can get mine up to 4k(at least) but no power there.

With my built trans and racing, I don't have to worry about it now because it shifts around 3200-3300rpm.

Good luck at the pulls, might want to keep it in a gear where you won't see 3400, even though it hard to pull that way.

[1DURAMAX1]

No luck so far. I can get mine up to 4k(at least) but no power there.

With my built trans and racing, I don't have to worry about it now because it shifts around 3200-3300rpm.

Good luck at the pulls, might want to keep it in a gear where you won't see 3400, even though it hard to pull that way.


I'll be pulling in 3rd gear with 315's I will probably top out around 3500rpm's. That's a complete guess since it will be my first hook with this truck. Thanks for the help Rob. Jason

[Cobra#3747]

You will probably be ok with turning up all the tables mentioned. I pulled with mine, tach sitting on 3400-3500, never sounded or felt like it went to defuel, or if it was, just enough to keep the rpms at 3400-3500.

I really should have logged the pull, just a suggestion, helps set you up for the next one a little better.

[gman]

Bump. Any new news on this issue?

[GMPX]

Just today released an updated Beta version with 6spd TCM reading/flashing (that worked!!). Should have some news shortly.

Cheers,
Ross

[Cobra#3747]

Is that part of the beta release that is up today or is that a new beta release to your beta testers?

I didnt see any note of the 6spd in the post for the beta that was released today.

[GMPX]

Is that part of the beta release that is up today or is that a new beta release to your beta testers?

I didnt see any note of the 6spd in the post for the beta that was released today.

In Pauls post in the beta section he does say that it includes the Allison update.

Cheers,
Ross

[Cobra#3747]

must have missed it...Thanks again

[JoshH]

Any idea when this will be available to the non cool kids? I sure would like to have my truck shifting before I leave it for 6 months.

[carcrafter22]

thats what I was wondering too. but the post says about 2 weeks

[GMPX]

So far no issues reported with the TCM programming, so it should be released before two weeks (as the prior post states).

Cheers,
Ross

[JoshH]

Good news. Thanks Ross.

[Tazman10]

I know everyone is working hard but we had some issues this weekend and I figured I would share them. Last weekend we pulled at a local event and pulled 3700RPM under load. It's still defueling in certain areas but it's hard to pin it down where. This weekend at Indy, I loaded the latest version of EFI and made a few changes to my original tune up then reinstalled it with the new version. It reset the parameters for boost , map, and EGR all back to factory specs which caused the truck to defuel on Saturday during qualifying. We were on the bubble and we got in for Sunday. Trippin and I worked on the tune up until 2:00AM on Sunday and got it some what fixed. Were were able to get to 3700RPM and got to 7th place in the finals. The truck will pull 4000RPM on the street but not on the pulling track.

[Tazman10]

I know everyone is working hard but we had some issues this weekend and I figured I would share them. Last weekend we pulled at a local event and pulled 3700RPM under load. It's still defueling in certain areas but it's hard to pin it down where. This weekend at Indy, I loaded the latest version of EFI and made a few changes to my original tune up then reinstalled it with the new version. It reset the parameters for boost , MAP, and EGR all back to factory specs which caused the truck to defuel on Saturday during qualifying. We were on the bubble and we got in for Sunday. Trippin and I worked on the tune up until 2:00AM on Sunday and got it some what fixed. Were were able to get to 3700RPM and got to 7th place in the finals. The truck will pull 4000RPM on the street but not on the pulling track. IF you watch the video you can see it still defueling under certain loads. There is no way we can win with out the RPM being raised.

We have to get this figured out so we can get these things running but it all seems to revolve around the requested torque tables. I helped a few guys this weekend to straighten out their LBZ's but I will say the LBZ is getting a bit frustrating for us all. Ross and Paul, we all appreciate your hard work but if you could make this a priority, you would be my (and many) hero!

[Cobra#3747]

I skipped a pull this weekend, really need to get rid of my defuel, not much point on beating on the truck if its not all there.

But I am not in pulling for anything but fun, so not a big deal to miss one or two pulls

[Cobra#3747]

Software is public release today, in case someone didnt notice

[Slowride]

Taz,
yhpm

[ratlover]

Any headway? :nixweiss:

[Cobra#3747]

I havnt even messed with it since hearing that the trans release didnt take care of it. I need to get some time to play again. Hopefully someone will find the table thats killing us.

[GMPX]

Once I get the E67 gas controller cals done I'll be hunting this darn thing down again. Most annoying to say the least.

Cheers,
Ross

[Cobra#3747]

Nothing like a challenge for motivation :D

[GMPX]

I've even tried holding the Bosch ECM in the air and calling it every name under the sun.....this interrogation method did not provide any further information, it was rather satisfying though :D

Cheers,
Ross

[Doc]

I've even tried holding the Bosch ECM in the air and calling it every name under the sun.....this interrogation method did not provide any further information, it was rather satisfying though :D

Cheers,
Ross

I always like the look on my dogs faces when I employ this scientific method.

;)

[Trippin]

I've even tried holding the Bosch ECM in the air and calling it every name under the sun.....this interrogation method did not provide any further information, it was rather satisfying though :D

Cheers,
Ross

Many years ago I spent a full day trying to diagnose a computer problem that was eventually tracked down to a new but defective CD drive. This was in the Windows 3.1 era. :Eyecrazy:

My workload at the time was such that I didn't have a full day to throw away. The drive was promptly removed from the computer and subjected to rapid and repeated blows with a very large hammer. :eek:

I then boxed up the drive and miscellaneous springs and pieces and shipped it to the manufacturer as defective. :D

While I don't suggest this with the Bosch ECU, fell free to read it this story or set it on a table next to a very large hammer and see if it responds a little better to your wishes. :D :D

[floriduramax1]

bump!

[tinman22]

i'd like to re bump this. I was working on a tune i'm making for my truck and discovered b0992 and b0993. out of curiosity, since the table stops at 3600... what happens after that? since some tables will go as far as 5200, but these stop at 3600.

[Slowride]

N/t

[Samdogmx]

i'd like to re bump this. I was working on a tune i'm making for my truck and discovered b0992 and b0993. out of curiosity, since the table stops at 3600... what happens after that? since some tables will go as far as 5200, but these stop at 3600.


thats a good question, what happens after 3600 RPM?

[GMPX]

I tried altering the table axis beyond what the limits are set to and it made no difference. Trust me, a lot has been tried.
Of interest, I read the thing on the Banks website on the Sidewinder D-Max Type R project. It didn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling to read they had a Bosch engineer from Germany out where they say he had to alter the ECM software to allow the boost and engine speed limitations to be lifted. Does this mean the problem is in the OS itself ? I hope not.

Cheers,
Ross

[dr.diesel]

I wonder at what RPM the ECM runs out of "CPU Speed/Power" or the injector open/closure duration becomes an issue?

[GMPX]

Being a PowerPC based ECM I think the CPU could keep up if it needed to. There might be some limitation though with the circuits that fire the injectors, these have some big capacitors that might not charge fully at high RPM, but I don't know that for sure.

[Leadfoot]

Any furthur update on this?

What have the LBZ guys been turning for R's this pulling season?

I am not ready for more R's (I had a tune sent to me, but was afraid to use it until I get a built motor), but when I get the motor done, would like to turn it up for pulling....

Thanks.

[JoshH]

Any furthur update on this?

What have the LBZ guys been turning for R's this pulling season?

I am not ready for more R's (I had a tune sent to me, but was afraid to use it until I get a built motor), but when I get the motor done, would like to turn it up for pulling....

Thanks.I've had mine up over 4500 a time or two.

[jckleewein]

Has anybody found a solution to this problem. I am currently have this issue with my truck. Any updates would be great. The log shows that the mm3 falls to about 30 mm3 around 3375 and up. The mm3 has a trickaling affect on all other tables. :help2:

LMM
GT4094R

[GMPX]

Has anybody found a solution to this problem. I am currently have this issue with my truck. Any updates would be great. The log shows that the mm3 falls to about 30 mm3 around 3375 and up. The mm3 has a trickaling affect on all other tables. :help2:

LMM
GT4094R

Given that JoshH above says he is turning 4500 RPM then yes the solution is found. You will need to go over the many mm3 limiter tables in the ECM.

Cheers,
Ross

[Danville Performance]

Got one for you, OS#12628594 for neww LMM's is the new fix from GM but now have no control of rpm over 3200rpm(defuels when gets to 3200rpm even when in manual mode). Has anyone else seen this yet? Before the update truck would turn 5,000rpm with no issue at all, now since update from GM, I can't control RPM even though I have all the same values in tables????

[GMPX]

Now that is interesting, it's something they have put in to (or changed) in the latest update. Thanks, that gives us something to work on....

Cheers,
Ross

[Danville Performance]

I will email you both tunes from the truck before and after and maybe that will help you find the issue.

[GMPX]

Thanks, that will certainly assist.

Cheers,
Ross

[jckleewein]

That is exactly the problem that I am seeing!!!!!!!!!!!!!