Rocketman69, look in here for LS2 GTO HO2S connections...

[joecar]

Gib,

I couldn't attach files to the pm I sent you, so here are those attachments...

This is for 2005 GTO.

The HO2S plug is a little different, it has 2 keyways on it, see the pic.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/9524/2005gtonbo2zj3.gif

<o:p></o:p> (file:///E:/2005%20GTO%20engine%20connectors.htm#tab24-1553382)
Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Bank 1 Sensor 1 (file:///E:/2005%20GTO%20engine%20connectors.htm#tab24-1553382)

<o:p> </o:p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width: 100%;" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3" width="100%"> <tbody> <tr style=""> <td colspan="2" style="padding: 0.75pt;">

Connector Part Information<o:p></o:p>

</td> <td colspan="2" style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"> <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"> •
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"> 9723-6897-40
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p> </o:p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable" style="" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"> •
</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"> 4-Way F (GY)
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p></o:p>
</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="bottom">

Pin<o:p></o:p>

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="bottom">

Wire Color<o:p></o:p>

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="bottom">

Circuit No.<o:p></o:p>

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="bottom">

Function<o:p></o:p>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

A

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

BU/BK

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

1664

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"> HO2S Low Signal Bank 1 Sensor 1
</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

B

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

PU

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

1665

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"> HO2S High Signal Bank 1 Sensor 1
</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

C

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

BK/WH

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

1050

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;"> HO2S Bank 1 Sensor 1 Heater Low Control
</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

D

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

PK

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;">

439

</td> <td style="padding: 0.75pt;" valign="top"> Ignition 1 Voltage
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <o:p>
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6973/2005gtoho2swireck3.png
</o:p>

[joecar]

Gib,

You may not be able to power your LC-1 from the HO2S connectors because the PCM controls the heater power, as you can see in the wire diagram;

maybe the PCM switches heater power on and keeps it on, I don't really know... you could test that with a DMM, and if id does keep the heater power on, then you should be ok.

Cheers
Joe

[Rocketman69]

Thanks Joe! That's exactly what I've been looking for.

[Rocketman69]

Gib,

You may not be able to power your LC-1 from the HO2S connectors because the PCM controls the heater power, as you can see in the wire diagram;


So what controls the heater power on the LS1 cars?

[joecar]

So what controls the heater power on the LS1 cars?On F-body LS1, it is controlled by the ignition relay via the ENG SENSOR fuse, so it's direct.

[Rocketman69]

ah....I see. So the heater circuit on the LS1 cars isn't monitored by the PCM at all....I believe we get a code if the heater circuit doesn't read any voltage at the PCM.

[joecar]

ah....I see. So the heater circuit on the LS1 cars isn't monitored by the PCM at all....I believe we get a code if the heater circuit doesn't read any voltage at the PCM.That leads me to believe the PCM possibly just keeps heater power on all the time (and why wouldn't it, it wants feedback from the O2 sensors).

:cheers:

[Gelf VXR]

Gib,

You may not be able to power your LC-1 from the HO2S connectors because the PCM controls the heater power, as you can see in the wire diagram;

maybe the PCM switches heater power on and keeps it on, I don't really know... you could test that with a DMM, and if id does keep the heater power on, then you should be ok.

Cheers
Joe

Hi Joe, another post from the dead, how about this possible issue, was it resolved? How would the PCM control the heater power thru the ground wire?

[joecar]

Hi Joe, another post from the dead, how about this possible issue, was it resolved? How would the PCM control the heater power thru the ground wire?Hi Gelf,

The 4th Gen F-cars powered the NBO2 heater via a relay that come on with key on, and the heater ground goes directly to chassis/battery ground... so trying to power a wideband from here is not a problem (as long as all the wiring and terminal crimps are in good condition, i.e. no voltage drops).

The GTOs on the other hand have the NBO2 heater ground going to the PCM, and we found that the PCM controls heater current/temperature by doing PWM on the heater ground... so trying to power a wideband from the NBO2 connector does not work due to repeated interruption of ground.

[Gelf VXR]

I have a vauxhall monaro, similar/same E40 PCM as the GTO. Ive had the LC-1's wire to the PCM heater and ground since day one, the LC-1s seemed to work fine, never reported any errors, but im sure the grounds must have affected the response and accuracy.

[joecar]

I meant the US GTO's, their wire diagrams show NBO2 heater ground going to the PCM with a text description explaining how the PCM modulates that ground to control heater current... I have not seen the wire diagrams for Holden/Vauxhall.

[Gelf VXR]

Vauxhall import from HSV Australia and re-badge, all the same 2 door coupe base model, same LS2 and E40 PCM as the GTO accept right hand drive, safe to assume the same wiring. Im rewiring in any case :) would you still have the diagrams for the GTO?


I would like to confirm G reference numbers for the ground points in the attached numbered 1 thru 8?



What is the role of SP100 in the wiring diagrams?

[Gelf VXR]

The FSV2 has four analogue connections, so four separate grounds required, the HO2S simulated analogue connections require 2 separate grounds, the led and calibration button require desperate ground, i have four K type to 5v analogue converters need separate grounds and 2 separate grounds for the FSV2 OBD2 connection pins 4 & 5 if this is to be done correctly.

Which ground in the obd2 does FSV2 use? 4 or 5, or both?

Of course blue, white and green if present all individually ground to same position also, wire in the resister to the white wire and place capacitor on the ground side attached to the red 12v supply of the LC-1 as close to the LC-1 as possible. The blue ground and red 12v fused/relay supply for the LC-1 should be 12gague (2.5mm2) all other grounds 0.75mm2

[Gelf VXR]

I would like to confirm G reference numbers for the ground points in the attached numbered 1 thru 8?

What is the role of SP100 in the wiring diagrams?



OBD2 pin 4 and 5 ultimately ground to G102, but before it looks like some conditioning via SP100?, they both share the ground cable with other devices.

ECM or PCM grounds to both G104 and G105, again it looks like some conditioning via SP100 and shares ground cable with other devices.

Any ideas how or what SP100 is doing at points A, B, C, D, E, F and G?

[Gelf VXR]

Doh, cracked it, nothing so technical lol SP100 is a splice pack on the chassis (G102). Position 23 in the diagram

[joecar]

You can see the difference in NBO2 heater ground in the attached wire diagrams.



19864


19865

[Gelf VXR]

Thanks Joe :)

It looks like the O2 sensor grounds go direct to the PCM also, floating as earlier mentioned.

I'm just wondering about this, connect the yellow wire from the LC-1 to the O2 high side, the LC-1 white or green wire must go to the common ground, then run ground wire from the common ground back to floating O2 lo side? I need to check my current connections.

[Gelf VXR]

I never studied electronics, i can usually grasp the concepts, some time with a little longer time to mull over lol. Which sensor type does the PCM work with? Zirconia generates its on voltage and Titania the PCM sends a reference signal and measures the resistance?

I'm looking this up


I guess the simulated NB can only work if replacing zirconia type, if its titania how do we know how the simulated voltage will work with the PCM reference signal, will connecting it fry the PCM!

[Gelf VXR]

Doh, cracked it, nothing so technical lol SP100 is a splice pack on the chassis (G102). Position 23 in the diagram

Coming back to the grounding looms, it seems that the looms have four ground loops in them, attached to ground in two different places as shown in the attached.

I came across some other info here http://www.w8ji.com/ground_loops.htm and here http://www.w8ji.com/negative_lead_to_battery.htm

They guy reworked the looms to remove the loops, got to be better for the wide band and FSW2, can anyone more qualified here comment?

[joecar]

On my LC-1 installations I used the white wire to feed NBO2 Signal Lo...

i.e. on my F-car:
LC-1 red -> fused/switched +12V battery power (NBO2 heater power, this is ok for F-car)
LC-1 blue -> vehicle/chassis ground (NBO2 heater ground, this is ok for F-car)
LC-1 yellow -> NBO2 signal hi
LC-1 white -> NBO2 signal lo

i.e. the LC-1 white wire goes to only one place (NBO2 signal lo); avoid connecting it directly to ground as this would create a ground loop around the LC-1.

[Gelf VXR]

Which ground in the obd2 does FSV2 use? 4 or 5, or both?



Any clarification on the FSV2 ground connections 4 & 8 to the OBD2 above?

Also are FSV2 4 & 8 connected internally? (Another potential ground loop)

[Gelf VXR]

On my LC-1 installations I used either the white wire to feed NBO2 Signal Lo...

i.e. on my F-car:
LC-1 red -> fused/switched +12V battery power (NBO2 heater power, this is ok for F-car)
LC-1 blue -> vehicle/chassis ground (NBO2 heater ground, this is ok for F-car)
LC-1 yellow -> NBO2 signal hi
LC-1 white -> NBO2 signal lo

i.e. the LC-1 white wire goes to only one place (NBO2 signal lo); avoid connecting it directly to ground as this would create a ground loop around the LC-1.

An interesting email response i received back from Innovate technical support. By the way i forgot you can not use a transformer for DC circuits.

-----------------------------------

I would strongly recommend not replacing factory narrowband sensors as this can have a detrimental effect on not only the way the vehicle runs,

but also potentially damaged the ECU.



From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2016 2:55 PM
To: IM-Support <[email protected]>
Subject: Innovate Website Technical Support Email



Sent Message





Name

Andy Sanders





Message

Hi, I have two LC-1 controllers and I want to use the simulated NB analog output, I do wish to connect directly to the PCM, can you advise a suitable isolation transformer specification up to the task or alternative method? Thanks in advance, your support is much appreciated



-----------------

That seals it for me, NB's back in and seperate bungs for the WB sensors.

[joecar]

I've run the LC-1 narrowband output to my PCM without any problem...

but note the following:
- I do not connect NBO2 socket Signal Lo to ground.
- I do not connect the LC-1 white wire to ground.

i.e. I keep NBO2 socket Signal Lo and LC-1 white wire isolated from ground (whether or not the LC-1 internally grounds the white wire)

( I seem to recall that the LC-1 internally connects the white wire to ground internally via a small resistor, i.e. allows it to float from ground if necessary ).

[joecar]

Coming back to the grounding looms, it seems that the looms have four ground loops in them, attached to ground in two different places as shown in the attached.

I came across some other info here http://www.w8ji.com/ground_loops.htm and here http://www.w8ji.com/negative_lead_to_battery.htm

They guy reworked the looms to remove the loops, got to be better for the wide band and FSW2, can anyone more qualified here comment?Yes, you have ground loops there if you have multiple ground points that are connected by non-trivial lengths of wire.

[Gelf VXR]

I've run the LC-1 narrowband output to my PCM without any problem...

but note the following:
- I do not connect NBO2 socket Signal Lo to ground.
- I do not connect the LC-1 white wire to ground.

i.e. I keep NBO2 socket Signal Lo and LC-1 white wire isolated from ground (whether or not the LC-1 internally grounds the white wire)

( I seem to recall that the LC-1 internally connects the white wire to ground internally via a small resistor, i.e. allows it to float from ground if necessary ).

I replied tech support and asked about the website where it says simulated NB output can be connected to stand alone ECU, contradicting the advise.

[Gelf VXR]

Now it is clear, the response

Meaning if you have a programmable engine management system where you can program things like input voltage and response time.
OEM ECU’s are engineered with a specific O2 sensor. Don’t remove your factory O2 sensors unless you are going to go to a stand alone system.