Anyone wanna help with surging Files included

[Dirk Diggler]

Log File (http://69.251.81.142/Log_Larry%20Hasty_0012.efi)
Tun File (http://69.251.81.142/Tune_0000_idletry%20learn.tun)


Looking at the logs i can see my iac counts are to low. My afr/ve table is spikey because i havent smoothed it as yet and left it be. The ve tables is results of the log attached in the post and is derived from a calc pid (Actual/Commanded). I appreciate any help I have been fighting with this surging for weeks now and cant seem to get it together. Ive tried everything but to no avail.

All my idle learn params are +4--4 to give the PCM a reasonable window to learn

[John Skiba]

Detailed mod list?

[Dirk Diggler]

Lsx 90/NW 90
230 232 595 585 110 +0
Racetronix 32 lbs/hr injectors
12 bolt 4.33
UD Pulley
Open Loop SD tune (no maf in system)

[bink]

Dirk - did you get the asa file I sent?
Cheers,
joel

[Dirk Diggler]

Yes thanks. I dont have edit edit installed anymore its on a remote drive that isnt hooked up ATM

[bink]

Oh..sorry.

Have you tried idling with stock injectors?? I'm sure you've said so but I can't remember :? ?

[bink]

Where is the timing coming from?

Seems like it falls on it's face when the pcm throws +30* of timing at it - at idle?

EGR Spark ( I know nothing of EGR)??

Your DYNAIR...g/cyl....values show much lower timing values in the general spark tables ( < 30*).

[bink]

Log your DYNAIR g/sec and the IACDES g/sec - they should be close in value for all temp ranges ( see Joe and Nick's Idle Tuning Thread). I think this keeps the Adaptive Idle routines within their limits - I might be wrong.
It's important on YBods/ETC.

Seems like your IAC steps surge/cycle more above 20*C -> exported log.

Mail Sent.

[Dirk Diggler]

Also my tps sensor may be wacked a little. NW commented it wasnt snug on the shaft as it should be maybe this is where the extra timing and stuff is comming from. My tps reads .4% and .4 volts at rest

[Dirk Diggler]

here is my gm/sec iac des @ 177 and 198


8.798338, 8.874839


here is my dyncylair @ 177 and 198


13.808468,13.928712

and here is how i figured out gm/sec using dynclyair


Grams/s = ({GM.DYNCYLAIR_DMA}/15)*{SAE.RPM}

[wait4me]

I havent seen what the idle air hole looks like on that throttle body, but to fix that problem on a bbk or simular, you need to make that hole going to the iac motor larger to allow it to flow more air when the motor needs it. Then to allow the car to learn its idle better, In asa we turned up the long term idle trims way up to 8.
your stock one is set to .5 max, and the min is -3.00 Changing that limit to be larger allows for the Car to learn its idle to be what it needs for you..

It works well on large cams as well as cams with less that 110 ls...
THere are tables for both park and drive. So all would need set..
All we have to do is give the computer more permission to do what it wants, and it does a good job.. Also, if you are having a surging problem at cruising, you may want to back off all your throttle follower table to 0 and watch the problem go away, If the throttle follower table is higher than the iac can produce it will make it do that also.

[GMPX]

Dirk,

At idle, the RPM's are all over the place, also look what that is doing to the timing, it jumps from 24 that you have set in {B5915} to 30 or so.
I 'personally' would lower your min timing table {B5915} down to 10 or so.
Granted, this timing isn't going to cause your problem all by itself but you need to eliminate the spark influence on idle too until you get the rest sorted. For now zero out {B5935} and {B5936}.

Also, I noticed table {B4403} has had some major changes, I messed with this myself, and 'small' amounts made a big difference.
Can I ask why the big change?, have you tried restoring that to standard?.
I am pretty sure the result of having the table as you do will mean the IAC will not move far enough to correct over/under idle speeds.
Look at the steps at about 550RPM, you only have 36, then at 1300RPM you have 13 or so, it's basically doing nothing really.
I think all the surging etc is probably the mixtures causing it, but only because the IAC appears to have no control.

To set my IAC up this is what I did (non ETC).
Connect to PCM and command the IAC to 0 steps, go out and unplug the IAC.
Now mess with the IAC screw to get the thing to at least idle (you usually need to hold your foot down to get it started then ease off).
'If' you can get the car to idle without the IAC then you are pretty much there.
I aimed to get the engine to Idle (without the IAC) about 100 RPM below my desired Idle RPM.
That way, the IAC and spark should easily catch a stall before it happens.
Then, reconnect the IAC and see what happens.

Cheers,
Ross

[Dirk Diggler]

Dirk,

At idle, the RPM's are all over the place, also look what that is doing to the timing, it jumps from 24 that you have set in {B5915} to 30 or so.
I 'personally' would lower your min timing table {B5915} down to 10 or so.
Granted, this timing isn't going to cause your problem all by itself but you need to eliminate the spark influence on idle too until you get the rest sorted. For now zero out {B5935} and {B5936}.


Done



Also, I noticed table {B4403} has had some major changes, I messed with this myself, and 'small' amounts made a big difference.
Can I ask why the big change?, have you tried restoring that to standard?.I am pretty sure the result of having the table as you do will mean the IAC will not move far enough to correct over/under idle speeds.
Look at the steps at about 550RPM, you only have 36, then at 1300RPM you have 13 or so, it's basically doing nothing really.
I think all the surging etc is probably the mixtures causing it, but only because the IAC appears to have no control.



I just shifted the cells down to see if it would help per recommedation on ls1tech about this table and bigger TB's. It is now back to stock... For a 90 MM tb do you have any suggestions




To set my IAC up this is what I did (non ETC).
Connect to PCM and command the IAC to 0 steps, go out and unplug the IAC.
Now mess with the IAC screw to get the thing to at least idle (you usually need to hold your foot down to get it started then ease off).
'If' you can get the car to idle without the IAC then you are pretty much there.
I aimed to get the engine to Idle (without the IAC) about 100 RPM below my desired Idle RPM.
That way, the IAC and spark should easily catch a stall before it happens.
Then, reconnect the IAC and see what happens.

Cheers,
Ross


Thanks I will give this a try today if the rain holds out.


wait4me I wasnt aware you could move the lern limits to 8 i will give that a try. THanks

[Dirk Diggler]

LABELS Selection
Parameters Value
Max Speed for Idle Mode 0.000000 MPH
Max Throttle for Idle Mode 0.000000 %
Default IAC Motor Park Position 310.000000 steps
Maximum IAC Steps 365.000000 steps
Throttle Cracker enable speed 1.000000 MPH
Throttle Cracker disable speed 2.000000 MPH
Throttle Follower TPS change 0.996094 %
Idle Learn Enable Temp 176.000000 F
Idle Learn Disable Temp 233.585938 F
Idle Learn P/N Limit High 8.000000 Grams/Second
Idle Learn P/N Limit Low -8.000000 Grams/Second
Idle Learn P/N A/C On Limit High 8.000000 Grams/Second
Idle Learn P/N A/C On Limit Low -8.000000 Grams/Second
Idle Learn Drive Limit High 8.000000 Grams/Second
Idle Learn Drive Limit Low -8.000000 Grams/Second
Idle Learn Drive A/C On Limit High 8.000000 Grams/Second
Idle Learn Drive A/C On Limit Low -8.000000 Grams/Second
Fan #1 IAC Correction 0.150391 Grams/Second
Fan #2 IAC Correction 0.370117 Grams/Second
Max Idle RPM in Gear 1200.000000 RPM
Max Idle RPM in P/N 0.000000 RPM



Hows that look

[wait4me]

Yah, then you can set up the computer to be closer to what it needs also alot faster if you see where it takes you too from the 8, then you can adjust the table called idle adaptive airflow max stratigy verse engine coolant temp. You move it up or down depending on your needs to let it start out closer to what it wants. You know if the table needs adjusted because it will idle ruff or crappy at first, and then gets better as time goes on..

[Dirk Diggler]

Yah, then you can set up the computer to be closer to what it needs also alot faster if you see where it takes you too from the 8, then you can adjust the table called idle adaptive airflow max stratigy verse engine coolant temp. You move it up or down depending on your needs to let it start out closer to what it wants. You know if the table needs adjusted because it will idle ruff or crappy at first, and then gets better as time goes on..

That must not be in the pre release 7.1.9 version ;)

[Dirk Diggler]

Ok i unplugged the IAC motor after setting it to 0 and after cracking the tb to about 13% the car stayed on and idles but still hunted. I started adding timing and got all teh way to 34* at idle before the car would stabilize and even then it hunted just a little. I added another .1 of a gm to the raf table to see if that will help but need to let the laptop recharge in order to log and use bidi controls


Isnt 35* kinda high. To me this sounds like Gen 1 SB territory

[Dirk Diggler]

As a last ditch effort i am gonna re-flash my full calibration to an 01 and start from scratch

[Dirk Diggler]

seems lkike a full reflash to a stock cal has cured my ailments. i need more testing to be sure though

[GMPX]

Yah, then you can set up the computer to be closer to what it needs also alot faster if you see where it takes you too from the 8, then you can adjust the table called idle adaptive airflow max stratigy verse engine coolant temp. You move it up or down depending on your needs to let it start out closer to what it wants. You know if the table needs adjusted because it will idle ruff or crappy at first, and then gets better as time goes on..

That must not be in the pre release 7.1.9 version ;)

It's not in 'my' version either :shock:

[GMPX]

Ok i unplugged the IAC motor after setting it to 0 and after cracking the tb to about 13% the car stayed on and idles but still hunted. I started adding timing and got all teh way to 34* at idle before the car would stabilize and even then it hunted just a little. I added another .1 of a gm to the raf table to see if that will help but need to let the laptop recharge in order to log and use bidi controls


Isnt 35* kinda high. To me this sounds like Gen 1 SB territory

Yeah, 35 is too high IMHO, you also don't want that much timing in the base table as that will not help if you end up with the cruise control effect when cruising.

Cheers,
Ross

[bink]

Dirk- How is it going with the stock reflash???

[Black02SS]

I talked to him last night and he was stoked to say the least. It appears that the stock re-flash has done it all for him. I have tried to get ahold of him several times today, but it appears he is out.

[bink]

I talked to him last night and he was stoked to say the least. It appears that the stock re-flash has done it all for him. I have tried to get ahold of him several times today, but it appears he is out.

Thanks, man. :)
Hey Dirk! Is it holding up??

joel

[Dirk Diggler]

Its doing better way better. I gues i just needed to go back to the basics ;)