V2 AD1 voltage adjustments?

[Redline Motorsports]

I am having an issue with getting FS to read the correct output voltage from the WB. I had all this working a few weeks ago and it seems like since I have done a few updates something is screwed up. The voltage that FS is reporting is off almost 2 volts from what is being outputed by the WB.

Stumbled across the FS Control Panel with show some voltage calibrations but I am not sure if that is what's needed or not.

Trying to get a car tuned right now and this is pissing me off!

Need some ideas!

Thanks

Howard

[Tordne]

If you are sure the voltages are being read incorrectly then the voltage calibration is what will be required...

[Redline Motorsports]

If you are sure the voltages are being read incorrectly then the voltage calibration is what will be required...

I measured the output voltage coming out of the WB and going to AD1. Its different then what the PID for AD1 is showing.

[Tordne]

After you calibrate the voltages for the FlashScan V2 the PID should match what is measured by volt meter.

[joecar]

More info: showthread.php?t=4593&highlight=calibration (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4593&highlight=calibration)

[Redline Motorsports]

Joe,

Do you really need an external voltage generator to calibrate this? What if you can't make your WB produce a solid 1v?? I read the link, which helped to understand what is happening.

Is this step for adjusting fine Mv differentials only? Is a 2+volt spread something else or is this the issue?

Thanks

Howard

[joecar]

Joe,

Do you really need an external voltage generator to calibrate this? What if you can't make your WB produce a solid 1v?? I read the link, which helped to understand what is happening.

Is this step for adjusting fine Mv differentials only? Is a 2+volt spread something else or is this the issue?

Thanks

HowardHoward,

Yes, use the WB to output 1V... see the red parts in post #2 in the above link... showpost.php?p=43056&postcount=2 (http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.php?p=43056&postcount=2)

I believe the AD calibrate can handle a 2V spread.

Sanity check: make sure you're using the correct AFR calc pid.

Cheers
Joe

[Redline Motorsports]

Joe,

The oddest part of this is that I had all this worked out a few weeks back. I actual sat there with the voltmeter and observed the AFR's which I then made a spreadsheet for to double back the calc pid formula. Bottom line is not such much that the FS AFR is off (which by the way is off exactly by 10!) but the voltage being measure going into the FS is not what it is showing under the AD1 pid. This to me at this point is a issue with the way the V2 is handling it.

Just out of curiosity; where can I buy a 0-5 volt power supply that allows me to vary the voltage to any value within that range. Not a must for this by I have some other projects that it would come in handy as well as this!

Thanks Joe!

Howard

[joecar]

If it was working and now it doesn't, something may have broken or changed... :bawl:

Radio Shack online may have something.

[Redline Motorsports]

I am just wondering if the firmware updates and/or updates changed anything. I'll figure it out..

[JezzaB]

Funny you mention this as mine did the exact same thing a week ago. It was reading way off but was working before. I was starting to think the latest (beta) firmware and software freaked it out or something so I flash back to the last one but it didnt fix it. I also had problems with the scanner becoming 3-5 second delayed which it had never done before. Ive re-installed the old firmware and software and everything seems to be fine. Weird

I got a 12v DC to DC transformer that outputs 1.5, 3, 4.5v etc and used that to calibrate it. Seem good now.

Jez

[joecar]

Jez, after back-revving the firmware, if you now recalibrate does it show the correct voltage...?

[JezzaB]

Ok, I recalibrated it on the newest firmware (V2.04.52) and newest software (7.3.4) and eventually got it to go. I went back to the previous FW (V2.04.47) after I found flashscan to be going a little laggy after a few minutes, but this still didnt fix it. I re installed all of the old version (7.3.3) and it was fine.

Just seemed coincidental that after I installed the beta software and firmware that the BEN's were all out and someone tipped my off to look at the AD voltage and I found it to be completely off

Im not a beta tester but I like to play with the latest software or pre-releases if I can get them. The pre release software and firmware I got from here :
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4585

I suppose I could try updating the firmware and software again to see if I can replicate the problem if you would like.

Hope this helps,
Jez

[Garry]

Just out of curiosity; where can I buy a 0-5 volt power supply that allows me to vary the voltage to any value within that range.
Ebay should work ... or any local electronics shop ...

[joecar]

Ok, I recalibrated it on the newest firmware (V2.04.52) and newest software (7.3.4) and eventually got it to go. I went back to the previous FW (V2.04.47) after I found flashscan to be going a little laggy after a few minutes, but this still didnt fix it. I re installed all of the old version (7.3.3) and it was fine.

Just seemed coincidental that after I installed the beta software and firmware that the BEN's were all out and someone tipped my off to look at the AD voltage and I found it to be completely off

Im not a beta tester but I like to play with the latest software or pre-releases if I can get them. The pre release software and firmware I got from here :
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4585

I suppose I could try updating the firmware and software again to see if I can replicate the problem if you would like.

Hope this helps,
Jez So you saw:
V2.04.47 + 7.3.4 = FlashScan laggy
V2.04.47 + 7.3.3 = FlashScan ok

What happens with this:
V2.04.52 + 7.3.4 = ?

Is anyone else seeing this sort of thing...?

[Redline Motorsports]

Well I just ordered a digital variable voltage supply that will produce an output from 0-15 volts. In the mean time I am trying to calibrate the unit with items in the shop.

Please clarify this;

First step is that you need to produce a voltage between .5 and 2 volts. As soon as you have a stable voltage hit Initialize

The produce a stable voltage between 3 and 4.5 volts. Then hit calibrate.

Is this it? It should matter where you get the voltage source as long as it records the 1st and 2nd voltage which it must calculate the difference and then convert into the AD counts.

I'm I understanding this correctly?

[Redline Motorsports]

:bash: thats all I can say!

I just spent the last three hours jerking with this setup! What am I doing wrong?

I started by setting the LM-1 to 1.200 volts for both the high and low scale. Saved it to the LM-1. Next I checked the voltage prior to the V2 by using a voltmeter and pulling it from the set screw pins. Once the voltage was stabilzed I hit the intialize botton.

I then returned back to the LM-1 programming and set the voltage values to 3.200 volts. Save it and rechecked the voltage. Once stabilized I hit the calibrate button. That should be it..........no?

I then spooled up FS with the wideband hooked up. The voltage looked closer. I logged a few seconds of AD1 voltage vs. AFR and it still seems off. If I am not mistaken the math for the LM-1 pid is (AD1*4)+7.35...the math is not working..

My living room looks like an electrical nightmare as I have all this stuff hooked up! LOL!! I really need some help! Need to get this behind me!:master:

Thanks

Howard

[mr.prick]

if you are using your wide band 02 sensor to calibrate the ad inputs
you need to wait a few seconds or reboot the wide bands power before it will put out the new voltage. use the test button to watch for the changes in the voltage readings before you initialize and calibrate

[Redline Motorsports]

Only problem with what you state is that I confirmed the voltage just prior to the V2 with a voltmeter.

[joecar]

Well I just ordered a digital variable voltage supply that will produce an output from 0-15 volts. In the mean time I am trying to calibrate the unit with items in the shop.

Please clarify this;

First step is that you need to produce a voltage between .5 and 2 volts. As soon as you have a stable voltage hit Initialize

The produce a stable voltage between 3 and 4.5 volts. Then hit calibrate.

Is this it? It should matter where you get the voltage source as long as it records the 1st and 2nd voltage which it must calculate the difference and then convert into the AD counts.

I'm I understanding this correctly?That looks correct, but use the WB to generate the voltage.

[joecar]

:bash: thats all I can say!

I just spent the last three hours jerking with this setup! What am I doing wrong?

I started by setting the LM-1 to 1.200 volts for both the high and low scale. Saved it to the LM-1. Next I checked the voltage prior to the V2 by using a voltmeter and pulling it from the set screw pins. Once the voltage was stabilzed I hit the intialize botton.

I then returned back to the LM-1 programming and set the voltage values to 3.200 volts. Save it and rechecked the voltage. Once stabilized I hit the calibrate button. That should be it..........no?

I then spooled up FS with the wideband hooked up. The voltage looked closer. I logged a few seconds of AD1 voltage vs. AFR and it still seems off. If I am not mistaken the math for the LM-1 pid is (AD1*4)+7.35...the math is not working..

My living room looks like an electrical nightmare as I have all this stuff hooked up! LOL!! I really need some help! Need to get this behind me!:master:

Thanks

HowardYes, first voltage initialize.... seconds voltage calibrate.... that should be it, that's what I do.

If the LM-1 is programmed as follows, then that calc pid should be correct:

0V = 7.35 AFR
5V = 27.35 AFR

[JezzaB]

Only problem with what you state is that I confirmed the voltage just prior to the V2 with a voltmeter.

I feel your pain mate, I had mine in a death grip screaming "Whats wrong with you!!!" not a couple of days ago.

I had a similar problem with mine. I have a PLX SM-AFR so I couldnt use it to output the 2 reference voltages. I used a 12v DC transformer and set it up. I tried 4 different voltage outputs when it was re-calibrated and it was reading correctly.

As soon as I put the WBO2 connections on it would read a bit out to what I was seeing on the multimeter. I found that if I removed the ground wire (AD1 - terminal wire) it would read very very close. Dont know what it was but had something to do with the ground wire throwing it out.

Goodluck with it mate,
Jez

[Biggsy]

I used a 12v DC transformer .....

WOW! where do you get one of them from???;)

Cheers,

[JezzaB]

WOW! where do you get one of them from???;)

Cheers,

Sorry a 12v DC to DC variable power supply. Better :nixweiss:

[Biggsy]

lol :cheers:

[joecar]

Howard,

Try this revised procedure (see red ink): showpost.php?p=43056&postcount=2 (http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.php?p=43056&postcount=2)

Joe

[joecar]

Otherwise try connecting a 10MegOhm resistor in-line with the AD+ input...

[dc_justin]

Yes, first voltage initialize.... seconds voltage calibrate.... that should be it, that's what I do.

If the LM-1 is programmed as follows, then that calc pid should be correct:

0V = 7.35 AFR
5V = 27.35 AFR

Yep, me too. But I don't use anything as fancy as a variable voltage power supply. AA batteries are rock solid on their output. Use one for the initialization (measured with a voltmeter) and two for the calibration. :D

[Redline Motorsports]

Ok. Got most of it working!

Voltage is with .01+/-!

Now figure this out....

The voltage at the AD1 input is bang on. I confirmed this by using both the LM-1 and LC-1 pids

At 1.59 volts the LM1- pid was at 15.9 (EXT.AD1)*10
0 volts=10.1
5 volts=30.1

At 1.59 volts the LC-1 pid was at 12.12 (EXT.AD1*3)+7.35
0 volts=10.1
5 volts=20.1


BUT the Autronics pid (which I need from the dyno) was showing 14.3 when it should be 16.36!:bash: I checked the pid calc in the generic folder and was wondering why if the range is;

0 volts=10.1 and 5 volts=30.1 why the pid should not be the same as the LM-1? Its all relative to voltage input isn't it? The formula is (EXT.AD1*4)+10

Almost back to where I was!

Thanks guys!

Howard

[joecar]

Ok. Got most of it working!

Voltage is with .01+/-!

Now figure this out....

The voltage at the AD1 input is bang on. I confirmed this by using both the LM-1 and LC-1 pids

At 1.59 volts the LM1- pid was at 15.9 (EXT.AD1)*10
0 volts=10.1
5 volts=30.1

At 1.59 volts the LC-1 pid was at 12.12 (EXT.AD1*3)+7.35
0 volts=10.1
5 volts=20.1


BUT the Autronics pid (which I need from the dyno) was showing 14.3 when it should be 16.36!:bash: I checked the pid calc in the generic folder and was wondering why if the range is;

0 volts=10.1 and 5 volts=30.1 why the pid should not be the same as the LM-1? Its all relative to voltage input isn't it? The formula is (EXT.AD1*4)+10

Almost back to where I was!

Thanks guys!

HowardHoward,

You got voltage read from AD1 matching the voltage going into it... :cheers:

Did you have to do anything special or different from the procedure...?

At steps 3 and 6, did you disconnect the analog signal when you measured it, or did you leave it connected...?


Hmmm...
Those aren't the AFR-voltage points for the LM-1 and LC-1... they look like the display range of the calc pid (when you create a chart/gauge for it, those are the lower/upper values on the gauge/chart), and they don't match what the calc pid emits for 0V and 5V... :nixweiss:

Joe
:)

[Black02SS]

Hmmm...
Those aren't the AFR-voltage points for the LM-1 and LC-1... they look like the display range of the calc pid (when you create a chart/gauge for it, those are the lower/upper values on the gauge/chart), and they don't match what the calc pid emits for 0V and 5V... :nixweiss:

Joe
:)
You are correct Joe. According to the data presented above, his values do not match the calculations for any of the PIDs. Here is an example Howard from what you have listed.

For the LM1 if the output voltage is set to 1v=10 and 2v=20, then yes 1.59 would equal 15.9 according to the calculation. You have 0v=10 and 5v=30. With those outputs on the LM1, the calculation would be:
{AFR=(4*V)+10}. So if you have a output of 1.59, the AFR should read 16.36.

Same goes with the LC1. According to the values you have listed, the PID should be {AFR=2*V)+10}. 1.59v with that calculation would result in a AFR of 13.18.

[Redline Motorsports]

I guess since the voltage is on, I'll let the PID calc do its job......

I'll see what happens when I use the Autronics WB.

Thanks guys for the clarifications!

Howard

[Redline Motorsports]

DONE!

Back to where I was! Everything is working!

Damn voltage offsets!:bash:

Thanks for everyones direction.

HT

[pkincy]

Yep, me too. But I don't use anything as fancy as a variable voltage power supply. AA batteries are rock solid on their output. Use one for the initialization (measured with a voltmeter) and two for the calibration. :D

That is precisely what I was thinking as I was reading the thread. Grab a DVM and measure a couple of batteries from the misc battery drawer and you are good to go. Low tech but seems foolproof.

Perry

[Redline Motorsports]

Here we go AGAIN!

Today I was doing a AutoVE tune and all was working well with WB inputs. I stopped to let the car cool down and do something else for a half hour. When I started to resume the tune, the AFR in FS was way off. Here is the screwed up part.

I had bought an adjustable digital power supply. We set the voltage to 1.5 volts and tapped it into AD1. FS reported 1.5 volts. I then tapped a DVM to the WB output (0-5 volt) and which showed a voltage of 1.120 and FS showed 2. something!! WTF! I went and checked the 1.120 volts in a spreadsheet I made for my WB and the 1.120 volts matched the reading in AFR on the WB. Something screwy is going on and its driving me nuts. I am wondering if there is some ground issues going on. I am confident the voltage offset is perfect. When it was working earlier it was spot on..........

[Garry]

Can you configure your WBO2 to output specific fixed values? If so, try to do the tune with that ... maybe the voltage base of your O2 is just off ...

Btw, I think your Signature is a bit off, too:
99\' C5 422 (538 RWFT/530 RWFT N/A)
538 RWFT? Guess that's HP ... nice numbers though ;)

[Redline Motorsports]

Can you configure your WBO2 to output specific fixed values? If so, try to do the tune with that ... maybe the voltage base of your O2 is just off ...

Btw, I think your Signature is a bit off, too:
99\' C5 422 (538 RWFT/530 RWFT N/A)
538 RWFT? Guess that's HP ... nice numbers though ;)

I went through all this BS a couple weeks ago and everything has been working. This original post started as a voltage offset calibration issue. This problem today makes no sense. I had the voltage within .01 volts of accuracy and tuned half the day as is.

Thanks for pointing out the sig! Never noticed that!

Howard

[JezzaB]

I went through all this BS a couple weeks ago and everything has been working. This original post started as a voltage offset calibration issue. This problem today makes no sense. I had the voltage within .01 volts of accuracy and tuned half the day as is.

Thanks for pointing out the sig! Never noticed that!

Howard

Did you update to the newest firmware 2.4.55? Ive been having some issues with mine again... *sigh*

Jez

[Redline Motorsports]

Hmm.....good point..........I don't remember a fireware update in the last release. Going to check.

EDIT: I see the .55 update that is dated 3/29. Maybe this is part of the problem.

[Redline Motorsports]

Fixed the problem......

The car is a 1994 Impala............with a 2002 LS1 and 6 speed. Apparently what happened was that somewhere during the morning we lost a ground that was needed to properly ground the WB with the FS. I ended up running a wire from the two black grounds behind the ALDL to the negative side of AD1. This took care of 98 % of the problem and a little tweak with the pid calc took care of the rest.

Kind of makes sense based upon the nature of the car and how the customer had it wired. As stated I didn't have this issue any any of the "production" GEN3/4 cars.

Another lesson learned.

Howard

[Blacky]

You'll all be pleased to know that we will soon have digital support for widebands that support digital/serial output.
No more analog voltages, no more calibrating - just a serial connection from the wide band directly into FlashScan.

Regards
Paul

[Redline Motorsports]

You'll all be pleased to know that we will soon have digital support for widebands that support digital/serial output.
No more analog voltages, no more calibrating - just a serial connection from the wide band directly into FlashScan.

Regards
Paul

Paul,

That should cut down on a lot of this crap. Who is coming out with a digital output WB? Don't remember seeing one on the market.

[Blacky]

Paul,

That should cut down on a lot of this crap. Who is coming out with a digital output WB? Don't remember seeing one on the market.

A lot of them already do.
LC-1 does and I think the LM-1 does.

Regards
Paul

[pkincy]

You'll all be pleased to know that we will soon have digital support for widebands that support digital/serial output.
No more analog voltages, no more calibrating - just a serial connection from the wide band directly into FlashScan.

Regards
Paul

Aargh! I read this 2 hours after I have taken apart my Tech Edge Display and cut off the RS232 leads and soldered on wires for Grnd and Vout.

But I definitely support making this interface with FS easier.

I did note that my display reads correctly after soldering on the new wires, but will read a 1/2 AFR low when I am logging the data into the V2. I suppose that the logging connection draws down the voltage a bit.

Perry

[Garry]

So, for the LC1 it would then just go to the "head phone" connector instead of the analog lines ... nice :)

[Bruce Melton]

You can use your desktop PC power supply for DC power supply.
I used that and one of those gator PSs to come up with the two voltages.
A real pain.

[oztracktuning]

So is this right. The firmware being updated changed the voltage calibration - mine seems to be out by 0.3 afr since updating to FSProg_V2_4_55.ffw

I need to get my afrs right for a big meet on the weekend in V2 and also make sure my V1 blackbox data agrees. So that i can log at the track with it and flash make adjustments.

Does anyone know what size capacitor is best across the plug as a filter. I have lost mine again!

[Blacky]

The firmware update should make no difference to the A/D voltages. The A/D calibration was not changed during the update.

To make sure the V2 is calibrated you need to supply two known voltages as per the instructions in the calibration window in the Scan Tool software.

We have been looking at ways to make the A/D inputs less dependant on external calibration and more accurate even under non-ideal voltage supplies and grounds. The update is currently being tested. It is a hardware modification that we expect will be made available to the EFILive user community as soon as (and if) we determine that the changes are worth making. We have not determined the cost of the hardware upgrade yet.

Regards
Paul

[oztracktuning]

I noticed also that the V2 doesnt seem to need the earthwire. It makes no difference to the value in my situation. Should this be the case - i guess its still worth using so that the capacitor can filter any interfence via the earth wire.??

[Blacky]

I noticed also that the V2 doesnt seem to need the earthwire. It makes no difference to the value in my situation. Should this be the case - i guess its still worth using so that the capacitor can filter any interfence via the earth wire.??

Internally the A/Ds' earth pins are the same* as the OBDII chassis ground pin - so it will (should) make no difference only if the device you are measuring has the same signal ground as the OBDII chassis ground pin.

*As far as I'm aware FlashScan's CPU ground (chassis ground) and the A/D grounds are connected internally in some way.

Regards
Paul

[dc_justin]

We have been looking at ways to make the A/D inputs less dependant on external calibration and more accurate even under non-ideal voltage supplies and grounds. The update is currently being tested. It is a hardware modification that we expect will be made available to the EFILive user community as soon as (and if) we determine that the changes are worth making. We have not determined the cost of the hardware upgrade yet.


If you need a real-world V2 guinea pig for this hardware modification, I nominate myself. :D I'm using a V1 for WB input right now because I can't get my V2 to calibrate properly. Will read a max of 5.15V one day, 5.35V the next, max of 5V being sent to it (verified).

[ChipsByAl]

This might be a little off topic, but here goes. I found it necessary to recalibrate my V2 recently. It seemed to be working just fine, but I thought the update rate appeared sluggish. My click happy self stumbled upon the FlashScan V2 control panel and clicked for the heck of it. Needless to say it was necessary to recalibrate all four channels. Since this Icon is easy to hit and possibly not too difficult to click the "calibrate" button, could the default screen have all of the checkboxes "unchecked." This way it would take at least one more active step to screw up the V2's calibration. It might save the next click happy tuner.
Al