OK, RAFIG & AutoVe done...STILL LOST...

[808ws6]

OK, this past weekend I had the pleasure of performing some logs and tuning :)

First, I RAFIG map from a cold start and adjusted my Base Airflow Table with the results from the map.

Then I followed the AutoVE tutorial and started to do some logging in SD Open loop.
I did this three times. Most of my adjustments were below 3k rpm.
I re-checked the BEN's aferwards and seemed to be pretty close with BEN #'s in the 1.0 and 1.1 range.

One thing I noiced is I has some rather large peaks in my MAP.

While still SD Open Loop AUtoVE tune, I could see my idle AFR reading very close and steadily @ 14.7 as well as moderate throttle up to 3k rpms.
I was very pleased with the results.

Then I performed the idle tuning adjustments as posted by SSpdmon on another post. I guess because I have a '98 I cannot change the Delay timers to 5 seconds because I do not see those tables B4504 B4505.

I immediately noticed an improvement in the restarts and part throttle operation. I now have a idle hang up at times. I will come to a stop and it will be idling @ 1100 then drop to the desired speed of 950.

After the idle tuning, I decided to put the calibration back to SD Closed Loop.

This when everything started to wreak havoc in my eyes.

All of my AFR's when back to what it was before the AutoVE tune.
I see AFR @ idle in the 16.5 range and driving down the road I see between 15.5 and 16.5.

Just for $hits & giggles, I bumped the MainVE table 6 percent between 400-1200 rpm to see if my idle AFR would go down. No help. Still reads hi. Sometimes I see 17's at idle, starting to scare me.

Is all of this happening because it is in Closed Loop?
I tried making some changes to get it in Open Loop at idle but no success getting to go into open loop at idle.

I considered SSpdmon's suggestion about starting a custom OS but I do not see a useable calibration for my year application: 1998.

Am I going to have it just leave it in Open Loop? If so, How?

Look forward to any suggestions and many thanks in advance!

Gil

[808ws6]

Just in case, here are the specifics on my car:

1998 Ws6 6 spd.
Patriot LS6 243 CNC heads stock valves
FAST 90 intake
Holley 90 TB
Stock 28lb injectors
FAST fuel rails
TSP MS4 cam
PAcesetter headers and ORY
SLP 85 MAF (disconnected)
LS7 lifters
7.4 TSP pushrods
3:73 10bolt

[808ws6]

Here is my current last tune (SD Closed Loop).

[808ws6]

And here is the log file after installing the above tune.

BTW, the AFR is low at the beginning because I forgot to turn on the Lm-1 :bash:

[Doc]

Hello 808,
I am at work right now and don't have the Tuner or Scanner on this computer. I will take a look after I get home. I will be tuning a car with a very similar setup in the next couple of days. Just out of curiosity, what LSA does your MS4 have? Without jumping to any conclusions, this might be a LM-1 sensor issue. I highly recommend you have a known good spare unit just as a failsafe. I have gone down too many rabbit holes chasing smoke-so to speak...the sensors do not last forever and you can pick them up at your local autoparts store. Just tell the pimple popper behind the counter that you have a 01 VW Golf 1.8l and want the forward (pre-cat) sensor. You should get a 1 year warranty and keep that reciept in a book away from the uv light and in 6 months swap out the older sensor. Think of it as a regular maintenance item.

[SSpdDmon]

On the pre-'01 cars, I believe the delay timers are combined under B4519. The factory setting is 1.8 seconds. Just look under Engine>Idle>Learning>Parameters. It's there. :)

Doc makes a good point. The same goes with the other sensors as well. How fresh are your NBO2 sensors? If your WBO2 is saying 14.7 is 14.7, but your NBO2's are saying 16.5 is 14.7, naturally either one (WB/NB) or both sensors are wrong. Regardless of the overlap in your cam, the results should be fairly consistent. If the NBO2's haven't been replaced ever, I'd go after them first as they are approaching 10-years old.

I don't have time to look at the logs/tune right now. However, to address the spikes you see in your map during the AutoVE process, you should be going through and smoothing out (by hand if need be) the sections of the VE where you have significant inconsistencies. If they keep re-appearing, then they're supposed to be there. Otherwise, they're a side effect of the PCM's interpolation of the surrounding cells and need to be cleaned up. The way I like to hand smooth is to find a good group of cells surrounding the "bad" area. Then, work my way in by increasing/decreasing the bad cells by +/- 0.1% until things start to level out.

Hope that helps and glad to hear you got the SD process down. :) :cheers:

[808ws6]

Thanks for the suggestions.

As for the narrowband sensors, I replaced them both about 3 months ago with OEM delco sensors due to some insuff activity dtc's which I later found out were due to the Long Tubes.

I am skeptical the fairly new LM-1 wideband, but I guess anything can be it at this time.
It has been on for about 400 miles.

The AFR input when I am in OPEN Loop appears to be spot on. It is just when I go back to closed loop I experience the lean readings.

Thanks for the wideband replacement tip :rockon:

The LSA on my cam is 111.5 .
Intake .649 lift 239 duration; exhaust .609 lift 242 duration

Any suggestions on skewing the settings to allow open loop at idle?

Am I correct to say I cannot use a CUSTOM OS witha '98 PCM?

Thanks!

P.S. Thanks for the warm welcome DOC!

[Doc]

Unfortuneatly you are correct about nonavailibilty of the COS for the 98s at the present time. Obtw, you have desoldered the "xtra" resistor SLP put in that MAF haven't you? If you plan on going back to Closed loop after AVE then you'll definitely want that sucker gone.

[808ws6]

DOc,

Thanks for confirming my findings. Now how get this to Open Loop at idle.......

[Redline Motorsports]

I have a simliar issue with a 98' that idles at 16:1 until closed loop kicks in. I thought about playing with the VE a bit down in that zone but I figured it would have effected closed loop operation as well. Its not unbearable during warm up but odd non the less. I hate the 98's!"

Howard

[SSpdDmon]

I have a simliar issue with a 98' that idles at 16:1 until closed loop kicks in. I thought about playing with the VE a bit down in that zone but I figured it would have effected closed loop operation as well. Its not unbearable during warm up but odd non the less. I hate the 98's!"

Howard
Why not just up the commanded fueling in open loop table?

[Doc]

DOc,

Thanks for confirming my findings. Now how get this to Open Loop at idle.......

{B3605}; Youv'e got mail.

[808ws6]

Hey Doc,

Thanks for the e-mail and pm!

I'll check them out tonight after work and get working on this.

Thanks a ton!

Gil

[808ws6]

I have a simliar issue with a 98' that idles at 16:1 until closed loop kicks in. I thought about playing with the VE a bit down in that zone but I figured it would have effected closed loop operation as well. Its not unbearable during warm up but odd non the less. I hate the 98's!"

Howard

I am glad to see that I am not the only one losing my mind.

The car does drive fine, just the AFR reading scares the crap out of me.

What AFR value starts melting parts? LOL :muahaha:

[Redline Motorsports]

I am glad to see that I am not the only one losing my mind.

The car does drive fine, just the AFR reading scares the crap out of me.

What AFR value starts melting parts? LOL :muahaha:

At light loads and idle a AFR as lean as 16-17:1 won't hurt the motor. It will probably lean miss at the AFR thought!

As long as it gets under 13.2 at WOT your not going to hurt anything!