Default Trying to choose between the different tuning programs?

[N0DIH]

I am seriously looking to buy a tuning suite in the next 3 weeks.

The primary vehicle is: 1999 K2500 Suburban 454.

Possibly getting into some tuning as a side business.

Candidates are:

EFILive FlashScan v2
TunerCat OBD2/Jet Spectrum Tuner
HPTuners

HPT doesn't support my engine yet. I haven't used any of these directly. I do lots of tuning with TunerCat for the LT1.

Has anyone used the other programs? I can't see any demo of HPT. So I am at a distinct disadvantage there. I do have a demo of TunerCat OBD2/Jet Spectrum Tuner and EFILive. So I can get some clue of what they do, but HPT leaves me high and dry for knowing what it is like.

Can anyone give me some advice on comparisons? How do I know that HPT will be able to do all what I want? What is my satisfaction guarantee with it?

I hate the idea of spending that sort of $$ blind on a product that I don't know will do all of what I want.

I attached a file that the moderator there created on comparing EFILive to HPT. Can someone mark it up with the errors?

Thanks!

(posted also here (http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10807), you can see what HPT guys say about their product and EFILive)

[Black02SS]

Obviously the response you will get on here is going to favor EFILive. One of the reasons for this is several of us own both programs (EFILive/HPT) and see first hand the difference between the two.

Here are a few reasons why I chose Live over HPT.

#1 Customer support. I initally bought LS1 Edit, then switched to HPT. At first the CS wasn't bad. Then after time when I kept finding bugs and other errors, the CS stopped. I was told it was on my end and not theirs. This was in error as I tried it on many different areas and they still didn't want to offer any assistance. Several EFILive vendors offer phone support. You won't find this with HPT. HPT claims to have a bigger user forum. This may be true but you have to factor in you can't download any HPT files without being a member or update your cable. This will add to the user numbers greatly. What you don't see is the number of actual active users. You won't find a more knowledgeable user base then EFILive. Each member participates and offers support like no other. If it is 3am in the morning, you can rest assue that someone is probably online and will be there to help.

#2 The portion of the program that sets EFILive over HPT isn't the tuning tool, yet the scanner. You asked about Excel in your other posts. EFILive has raised the bar with the ability to make custom pids of basically anything you want, plot them on custom made maps/charts, and see exactly what is going on. If HPT had a demo (which SEVERAL of us have asked for) you would see the big difference here.

#3 The tuning tool is IMO a little more advanced then HPT. The layout is easier to read and understand as you can see clearly every description on each table as well as a built in search tool for easy finding of tables you are looking for. You can select between imperial/metic setting within each table to suit your tastes, HPT you have to pick either or for the entire program. Not very user friendly if you are used to looking at KPA and F* at the same time.

I can go on and on about how EFILive is a better choice over HPT. Many have heard me do this already so I won't waste anymore bandwidth doing so again. LOL The choice is ultimately yours, but I can tell you that I am getting more people call me that own HPT wanting to switch. There has to be a reason why HPT won't release a demo when it has been asked for so much... You make the decision as to why a company wouldn't make one so people to could get a feel of the software before you buy. It is like looking at two cars and only being able to drive one and not the other. Personally I would never buy a car I haven't drove. ;)

If you have any questions, feel free to give me a call and I will help you out as much as I can. Heck, I even have a HPT cable here for sale if you are interested, but it doesn't have support for your truck.

[SSpdDmon]

:iamwithstupid:

I swear EFI Live makes me sound smarter than what I am because of those "in-table descriptions." Had I gone the HPT route, I don't think I would have been able to solve the idle problems most people complain about. And, I give a big +1 to the user-friendly layout of the software. If you can use Windows Explorer, you can find pretty much anything to tune in your PCM. It doesn't get much easier than that. You'd be surprised how many people ask me, "You mean there's a table for that in the PCM?"

[joecar]

:iamwithstupid:

I swear EFI Live makes me sound smarter than what I am because of those "in-table descriptions." Had I gone the HPT route, I don't think I would have been able to solve the idle problems most people complain about. And, I give a big +1 to the user-friendly layout of the software. If you can use Windows Explorer, you can find pretty much anything to tune in your PCM. It doesn't get much easier than that. You'd be surprised how many people ask me, "You mean there's a table for that in the PCM?"+1 on that... the "in-table descriptions" explain how the table works and lists other tables that interact with it.

[joecar]

N0DIH, welcome to the forum, good avatar "no rice"... :cheers:

Also, take note of this feature...

The scan tool chart cursor links into the tune tool...

the tune tool places a cursor on the table cell that corresponds to the log chart cursor in the scan tool,
and it moves this cursor from cell to cell in the table as you move the scan tool cursor...

and...

while logging (i.e. in real time), the tune tool moves the cursor to show the current operating cell in that table (in real time)...

(that sentence is too lowly to do justice to that feature)

each table in the tune tool shows the pids required to be logged for this linking to happen... it's very simple to do.

Cheers
Joe
:cheers:

[ScarabEpic22]

I looked hard at both HPTuners and EFILive before I settled on EFILive for tuning my LL8. Reasons: Actually heard back from them about being a beta tester for it and downloaded their software and was able to tweak one of the included tunes. Now, with FlashScan V2 and the upcoming standalone logging/scanning/tuning, IMO EFILive has raised the bar again.

HPT has more vehicle support, I have to say, and they have 98 2Bar OS plus E38/E67 ECM support already with a E40 2Bar OS. Plus, HPT has some I4 car support (Ecotecs), but EFILive has been working hard on other things like finishing FS V2, RTACS (really cool btw), and they are currently working on the E38/E67 stuff now.

HPTuners doesnt support your ride now, so why buy something you cant even use now? Thats my view, and if EFILive didnt support your truck right now I wouldnt recommend waiting for it either.

I know Im going to be biased, and I try not to be, but ultimately it comes down to your preference and who's software/hardware package suites you better.

[ringram]

E40 2Bar is available already. You might just need to PM Ross.

[N0DIH]

Sounds like the 98-00 Vortec Gen 1 support at HPT is coming soon, just not out yet. Yes, I don't want to buy something I can't use the day I get it. I have some immeditate changes I want to do already...

Man this is a lot to digest trying to decide what to go with.

[ScarabEpic22]

E40 2Bar is available already. You might just need to PM Ross.

OK, but officially its still in beta, correct? I dont have any need for it, that is just a huge thing HPT is advertising over EFILive for the LS2 guys.:nixweiss:


Sounds like the 98-00 Vortec Gen 1 support at HPT is coming soon, just not out yet. Yes, I don't want to buy something I can't use the day I get it. I have some immeditate changes I want to do already...

Man this is a lot to digest trying to decide what to go with.

Yea, I think HPT is working on the 98-00 Vortecs now, EFILive can do them now.

As I said before, you are the one going to be paying for it, and while EFILive FlashScan V2 is a little more expensive, just look at what FS V2 will be able to do vs the HPT MVPI Pro here in a couple months with standalong everything!:master: Thats the only reason I upgraded from V1 to V2.:rockon:

[ringram]

OK, but officially its still in beta, correct? I dont have any need for it, that is just a huge thing HPT is advertising over EFILive for the LS2 guys.:nixweiss:


What like Ford and Dodge support?

[N0DIH]

Is HPT or EFILive going to have Ford and Dodge support? If so, when? I am looking at Delta Force for Ford now.

[TAQuickness]

HPTuners doesnt support your ride now, so why buy something you cant even use now? Thats my view, and if EFILive didnt support your truck right now I wouldnt recommend waiting for it either.


Normally I would agree with you on this. One thing I have learned about EFILive, if it's on the list to get done, it's 100% worth the wait. EFILive has consistantly delivered the industries best products and the customer service is second to none.

I finished building my ~500 rwhp 383 LS1 about 6 months before EFILive's tune tool was released (I was in desperate need of a tune!). I had my finger on the trigger to send funds to HPT 3 or 4 times and each time, at the very last minute, HPT's customer service gave me the will power to hold off for EFILive.


I know Im going to be biased, and I try not to be, but ultimately it comes down to your preference and who's software/hardware package suites you better.

I couldn't agree more. It all comes down to how each indvidual thinks his/her money is best spent.

[ScarabEpic22]

What like Ford and Dodge support?

No, I meant that E40 2Bar OS is in beta, while HPT has it public along with E38 ECM capabilities.


Is HPT or EFILive going to have Ford and Dodge support? If so, when? I am looking at Delta Force for Ford now.

HPT says they are looking at Ford/Dodge now, I dont believe EFILive has really looked at it or if they plan to. Ross/Paul?:wave:


Normally I would agree with you on this. One thing I have learned about EFILive, if it's on the list to get done, it's 100% worth the wait. EFILive has consistantly delivered the industries best products and the customer service is second to none.

I finished building my ~500 rwhp 383 LS1 about 6 months before EFILive's tune tool was released (I was in desperate need of a tune!). I had my finger on the trigger to send funds to HPT 3 or 4 times and each time, at the very last minute, HPT's customer service gave me the will power to hold off for EFILive.

I understand, and I can testify to this as well. EFILive said they were going to release more LL8 cals last summer, and they did. Took them a little while, but when we got them, it was well worth it. (Plus, HPT takes like 2min to flash the LL8, EFILive takes 20 sec:D )

Correction:
HPT takes 25-35sec as well, I was provided incorrect information about this. The 2 minute timeframe is when the software reverts to the slower flash mode on both EFILive and HPTuners.

[louis]

I have both hpt and efi and hpt wil be cheaper you think till you try to use it.

Im surprised no one mentioned it here yet but hpt will charge you for every single thing you try to do with it.

Did you read about their credit system? If you want to run a 2 bar 3 bar or anything else you have to pay. Pay pay pay thats all that happens with them. You really need to read about their credit system and how much each item cost to use. Funny the up front cost is cheaper but thats not really the total cost till you buy and find out later.

Louis

[N0DIH]

EFILive and HPT both run an average of $100 to tune a car/truck, more with HPT if you go custom.

Both once you get into it enough start to become cheaper, but are both pretty pricey for someone to get started into tuning.

Overall, the EFILive Tunershop V1 is a good deal, as it does give you a lot, then you can upgrade to V2 when you need it.

EFI costs more out of the box than HPT, and only comes with 2 licenses.
HPT is less and comes with 4 (well, ok, 8 credits). More value out of the box.