02 Z06 D1SC tune questions....

[JET LEE]

I was looking for guidance/suggestions on tuning my 02 Z06 for the following mods:

D1SC Stage II Procharger 5" pulley (6 psi, I hope)
60 lb Motrons
MTI R1 Cam 232 236 .585 .575 114 LSA
1 7/8" long tube headers, 3" X pipe, 6" GHL Bullits

I know I should adjust the IFR table for the injectors. Should I then bump up my VE table and ease into the boost while autotuning?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
-Jet

[JET LEE]

Anyone???

[joecar]

Jet,

Not having tuned a boosted application, I will start off an answer to your question, and hopefully others will chime in... :)

Calculate the IFR table using the spreadsheet floating around;

Follow the Auto VE tutorial for non-boost;

Install COS5 by following the COS3 tutorial and the COS5 thread in the forum;
then dial in the boost VE table (using Auto VE...) and boost timing table.

Cheers,
Joe

[JET LEE]

As always...thanks joecar.

I'm still going to run with the MAF since my boost level is going to be low (6psi). When I add methanol in the future and more boost I'll go SD 2 bar. Can I run with the MAF in COS5?

Thanks
-Jet

[joecar]

Jet,

Yes, you can run a MAF with COS5.

First, you would dial in the main VE and boost VE tables in OLSD...
then you would dial in the MAF table.

Oh, and I assume you're going to install a 2 bar MAP sensor... the COS has a scaling table for it.

BTW: what fuel pressure regulator will you use (MAP/vac/boost-referenced or unreferenced)...?
This will determine whether the IFR table is flat or sloped.
You calculate the IFR table based on your injector rating and measured fuel pressure.

Joe

[JET LEE]

So...Your MAP ultimately determines your fuel pressure at the rail? I saw the tutorial about installing a fuel pressure sensor on the fuel rail. I guess you could log this against MAP and use the spreadsheet accordingly to determine your IFR at a certian MAP? Is this something that I need to do or is there another way to get these values?

I have about 2 more hours of work to do on my car before I can crank it. I was hoping to crank it soon to hear the lope from the new cam and the whistle from the supercharger. I was planning to just set up the IFR table and scale up the VE table. Would this be enough to get it cranked, since I'll just be pulling vac at idle?

Thanks
-Jet

[joecar]

You can measure rail pressure with a screw in pressure guage tool, with engine running; if you have the stock regulator, you will see approx 58 psi.

Do you have an aftermarket MAP-referenced regulator or the stock unreferenced regulator...?

If you have the stock regulator, then use the spreadsheet to calculate IFR for your injectors.

MAP-referenced regulator uses MAP "assistance" (via air hose from manifold) to vary the fuel rail pressure to keep the pressure difference across any injector constant (to keep the flow rate constant).

Unreferenced regulator just keeps the fuel rail pressure constant (as best as it can within a few %), but the pressure difference across any injector now varies as MAP varies (or rather as MANVAC varies)... so the PCM needs a lookup table (the IFR table) to know the flow rate at any manifold vacuum (unfortunately MANVAC range of IFR table is 0-80kPa).

Yes, set the IFR table and bump up the VE table (...I don't know by how much for boost, see the AVE/COS tutorials and get opionions on the forum...).

[JET LEE]

Yes....stock regulator.

Wow...you really know your stuff!

Thanks for helping me out. Maybe I can work something up and flash. I hope to crank it tomorrow!

Thanks
-Jet

[joecar]

Thanks, you're welcome. :cheers:

[joecar]

IFR spreadsheet available from here: http://allmod.net/hpt/InjectorsVE.xls

Other interesting info from that site: http://redhardsupra.blogspot.com

Courtesy of Marcin (RedHardSupra on this and other forums).

[dc_justin]

Unreferenced regulator just keeps the fuel rail pressure constant (as best as it can within a few %), but the pressure difference across any injector now varies as MAP varies (or rather as MANVAC varies)... so the PCM needs a lookup table (the IFR table) to know the flow rate at any manifold vacuum (unfortunately MANVAC range of IFR table is 0-80kPa).


And that inherently will introduce problems with an unreferenced regulator in boost. PCM thinks fuel pressure differential is static, yet 6 psi of boost yields 6psi lower differential fuel pressure than a N/A vehicle. On a set of Mototron 60s (63.2# at 43.5psi, 72.3# at 58psi), the PCM will think you're flowing 72.3# (0kPa MANVAC), when in reality, at 6psi of boost, they flow 68.5# or so, yielding lower than needed pulse widths and a leaner mixture...

[JET LEE]

dc justin
What would you do in my situation? What would you suggest?
Thanks
-Jet

[dc_justin]

2-bar from the get go. You can account for the changes in fuel pressure differential very easily. Your VE table won't technically be correct (but nothing can be in this case), but your end-result fueling will be.

[JET LEE]

THANKS!
Would this be the correct 2 bar?
GM 12569241 (AC-Delco #213-1520)

[dc_justin]

I think the correct one is 12580698, or some combination of those numbers. :)

[SSpdDmon]

Is it more troublesome to redesign the fuel system with a vacuum/boost referenced fuel pressure regulator? I would think a few companies out there (someone like Racetronix) would have thought about an easy to install system so we wouldn't have these problems. Then, we could set the IRF accordingly (flat) and have accurate values with the right fueling system.

[dc_justin]

Is it more troublesome to redesign the fuel system with a vacuum/boost referenced fuel pressure regulator? I would think a few companies out their (someone like Racetronix) would have thought about an easy to install system so we wouldn't have these problems. Then, we could set the IRF accordingly (flat) and have accurate values with the right fueling system.

That would be definitely be ideal.

[JET LEE]

Thanks for all the help guys.

So:
1. Get a 2 bar MAP sensor
2. Reflash with COS5
3. Set IFR for 60 lb mototrons (60@43.5psi w/ rail press @58 psi)
4. Bump up MainVE by ~15%
5. AutotuneVE

Do I need to do anything other than listed in the Autotune tutorial to get it running good and dependable?

Thanks again for everyone's help, you guys are a wealth of information!

[dc_justin]

Thanks for all the help guys.

So:
1. Get a 2 bar MAP sensor
2. Reflash with COS5
3. Set IFR for 60 lb mototrons (60@43.5psi w/ rail press @58 psi)
4. Bump up MainVE by ~15%
5. AutotuneVE

Do I need to do anything other than listed in the Autotune tutorial to get it running good and dependable?

Thanks again for everyone's help, you guys are a wealth of information!

3. 60Lb Mototrons are actually 63.2# at 43.5psi (http://www.racetronix.com/L107.html look at the static flow rate section)

4. Also fill out the boost VE table (instructions are in the COS doc).

6. Disable MAF sensor.

[JET LEE]

Thanks DC Justin,
I'll track down a 2 bar map and try my hand at tuning.

[joecar]

There are aftermarket MAP-referenced regulator/pump kits that install a new fuel line and use the existing fuel line as a return...

I've seen references to these on various forums and websites.

[JET LEE]

Could someone please help me out and tell me where I went wrong?

1. Reflashed my pcm from OS 12593358 to 02040003 OS.
2. Did a recalibration flash of my stock tune on the new OS.
3. Followed the 2/3 bar OS tutorial, recalibrated the 2 bar to 195 to read 29.8 as my 1 bar read.
4. Set up an AutoVE tune.

When I crank the car, it will run and idle 45 sec to a 1 min and will die (rich 12.5ish in reduced power mode). Then will will not restart, the engine turns over but it doesn't start. I let it set for a couple of hours and it would start again and then die and not restart again until some time later. I get MAF and MAP errors relating to throttle position.
I did get a low voltage DTC the last time I tried to crank it so I jumped it off and it ran for about 45 seconds and died again. It did turn over after it died but did not crank. I walked away.....
Any Ideas?


Thanks
-Jet

[joecar]

Jet,

I'm travelling (with my Mrs) at the moment, so I don't have the means to view your tun file (...internet cafe...)...

Exactly what DTC's do you get...?

MAF and MAp errors... you may have to increase the ETC, MAF, MAP rationality tables (located under Engine Diagnostics).

Are you using a 2 bar MAP sensor...?

When it dies, and you try cranking, do you get fuel (can you detect injectors firing) and spark (can you detect plugs firing)...?

Joe

[JET LEE]

Thanks Joe.
I will check those things today.
I wish that I would have had time to get the cam dialed in before I installed the bigger injectors and supercharger in. I cranked it a couple of times with cam only and it would run and die unless I kept in the throttle a good bit. The cam spec is 232 236 .585 .575 114 LSA.

Also...I am running 02040003 OS, where can I find COS5 for my car? When I open the tune I have posted above it says that A0001 and A0002 are out of range.

I am running a 2 bar MAP, I'll try increasing those tables.
Thanks,
-Jet

[joecar]

Jet,

COS5 is from here, see posts #167 and #168 on page 17: showthread.php?t=2599 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=2599)

Which OS did you start from... you may have to copy your calibration table-by-table if you didn't start with 12212156, but that only takes about 1 hour... might need a second opinion here...

You may be requiring some idle tuning... there's a few idle tuning threads.

Cheers,
Joe

[JET LEE]

Thanks Joe,
1. My stock OS was 12593358, I upgraded it to 02040003.
Could I do a Full reflash with COS5 and then do a Calibration only reflash with COS3?
Or do I need to start over with 12212256?

EDIT: Nevermind....figured #1 out.

2. I started over with my original back up of the COS3 before making any changes for autoVE.

3. I made changes to some of the injector tables to mimic those found on this thread http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4311

4. I copied the mainVE table and some idle parameters from a tune found on holdencrazy of a car with a similar cam.

5. I maxed out C6101, in hopes not to go into reduced power mode.

6. I cranked the car, it idled great with AFR ossilating around 14.7. It ran for about 30-45 sec and went dead and displayed reduced power mode on the DTC.

7. I pulled the following codes:
P0102 "Mass Air Flow Sensor Circuit Low"
P0106 "Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Performance"
P1514 "MAP/MAF - Throttle Position Correlation"

I tracked those codes back and verified that I had done what the tutorial had suggested to disable the MAF. I noticed that my C2904 is set to 1300, should it be 1? My MAF is a 5 wire one with the IAT sensor built in, I cut the yellow wire that sends the signal to the pcm.

8. This is a question I should probably ask after I get my car running, but I'll go ahead and do it. If I choose method 2 in the tutorial to enable PE mode for the boost levels to richen the AFR, what should are some good numbers to enter into B3608, B3610-13, B3643-45 and how do you make sure that your PCM doesn't drop out of PE mode?

Thanks for everyones help!

[JET LEE]

Wow....there's quite a learning curve to this tuning stuff...

I think I've read this entire forum now and everything tuning related on ls1tech and redhardsupra's blog site and a couple other references.

After doing that, I reverted back to my engineering background and made flow charts of what affected what and then I did log after log after log changing paramaters and logging more. Finally, it paid off...my car runs awesome! Getting it dyno'ed this weekend to see where my numbers are.

Special thanks to EFILIVE for this awesome forum and to Joecar and DC_Justin, hope I didn't bug you guys too much :)

Lessons learned....
Don't start off with someones else's tune.
A procharged, cammed Z06 isn't probably a good car to start your tuning career on.
I need to upgrade my fuel system....a better flowing pump and a map referenced regulator is in my near future :)

[JET LEE]

Dyno'd at 595 rwhp 508 rwtq with 5.5 psi at Triple X Motorsports. We went back to the stock OS, but pegged the MAF out in the process. He tunes with EFILive too and is a great tuner!

EFILive is awesome!

[joecar]

Jet,

Good job mate, power/torque rules... :cheers:

I agree, RHS has some good info on his blog site. :cheers:

You didn't bug us at all (...I'm taking the liberty of speaking for Justin...), we're happy to help; I'm still travelling (my Mrs. wanted to extend our little vacation) so I still haven't been able to look at all your attachments, sorry about that.

You're right, the learning curve is a steep mountain, and when you think you're approaching the top, you see a whole bunch of "peaks" (and "holes") all over the top of the mountain... ;)

How does it idle...?

C2904... I can't remember what table that is (I have no way of looking at it till Friday...)...?

Cheers
Joe
:cheers:

[dc_justin]

You didn't bug us at all (...I'm taking the liberty of speaking for Justin...),

Yep, not a bother at all. I wish I could have helped more, but just didn't have the time to get to it. :frown: