A question for professional tuners.

[johnsZ06]

How do you guys handle accountability issues, i.e. you tune a guys car and it blows up a month later?

Has anyone ever had that happen? :nixweiss:

[Redline Motorsports]

Thats a wide topic to narrow down to blame. There are many factors that can cause damage that are mechanical that tuners get blamed for.

What was your problem?

[dfe1]

In my experience most "professional" tuners aren't. I've found there are a bunch of people who know how to operate tuning software, and can change things like timing, fuel and idle speed, but don't really understand internal combustion engines. I've heard of quite a few tuners who have had engines meet their makers on the dyno, and of course, it's never their fault. On the other hand, I've seen quite a few customers who expect a tuner to get maximum horsepower from an engine that's old and tired, or with mechanical problems. I don't think theres a single answer that's correct as to whether a tuner should assume responsibility for engine damage. It will depend on the individual circumstances of a situation. The bottom line is that any "professional" tuner should never use calibrations that are aggressive enough to push things to the point that engine damage is a possibility-- unless they're intimately acquainted with a vehicle's owner. We all know how depressingly shallow the gene pool has become, and if you give an unknown customer a tune that's on the edge, you can pretty well bet he'll go over the end of it-- as in, "I didn't know I had to run premium gas." Or, "I wondered what that knocking sound was, but I figured it was okay to keep my foot on the floor."

That may sound ridiculous, but I've had some experiences that aren't too far removed from those examples.

[johnsZ06]

Thanks for the replies. I kind of figured as well but I wanted to hear it from the pros.

I haven't run into any problems...yet. But seeing how I tuned my 6th car yesterday that scenario creeped into my head. So far no problems, but I tune on the conservative side, mild timing and fuel changes. Most of the guys are happy to eliminate CAGS and have their fans set. A few Z06's that were pretty much stock reported the best SOTP performance, so it makes me feel good that they feel good.

[slowhawk]

Thats a good question. Luckilly we've never been blamed for a problem and thats after 250+ cars tuned throughout the years.I do take the time to explain tuning and if we tune for max power/on the edge that it can hurt the motor quickly.They ussually listen to me.

Now, we have been asked to check tune's to see if the shop doing the tuning could of caused the problems.I was very surprised on what we found on a few of these cars.1 that really sticks out is a 03 Vette that the high octain timing table was programmed for 36 degree's of timing at WOT. Hids motor was wrecked with broken ring lands with only headers and 4k total miles on the car. BTW-this was a well respected tuner too that I read alot of people ussing.

So,if your serious write up a paper for them to sign to avoid liability.

[minytrker]

I have a waiver I have every customer sign before I even download there stock tune. I also let people know what the safe limits are and what I reccomend. I also save several copies of all my tunes and log files from the tuning process. I can go back and show there a/f and timing or whatever and show them it was safe. Sometime people listen sometimes they dont. I had one h/c car that I tuned for all motor. The owner called me months later and said he wanted to spray a 200 shot, I explained to him he had to much timing and his tune (26 deg) wasnt for n2o to bring the car by and we could retune it for free for n20. A year later he hasnt came back by and has been spraying all the time. Im amazed it hasnt blew up, guess the pcm is pulling timing or he is just lucky.

[oztracktuning]

People can blow their motors just by running the wrong fuel at WOT or spending lots of time on the rev limiter.

[The Alchemist]

yes it certainly is an interesting question. We have had a couple of "redo's" lately from un happy customers who have tried the expensive shops, or one in particular, in Auckland and the initial download of the modified tune showed up some interesting changes. The most significant was that the full load timing from 2400rpm to 6500rpm was simply set at 24 degrees, ie: a flat line. Bring on the days of "total timing" distributors :) I have seen this on 3 cars so far. Needless to say the knock retard was going nuts between 4000 to 5000rpm. VE changes were minimal and crudely done. I COULD GO ON !
I guess people need to do the usual background checks that any consumer does before purchasing an item to satisfy themselves that the item or service they are buying represents good value and a good standard.

Mike

[slowhawk]

yes it certainly is an interesting question. We have had a couple of "redo's" lately from un happy customers who have tried the expensive shops, or one in particular, in Auckland and the initial download of the modified tune showed up some interesting changes. The most significant was that the full load timing from 2400rpm to 6500rpm was simply set at 24 degrees, ie: a flat line. Bring on the days of "total timing" distributors :) I have seen this on 3 cars so far. Needless to say the knock retard was going nuts between 4000 to 5000rpm. VE changes were minimal and crudely done. I COULD GO ON !
I guess people need to do the usual background checks that any consumer does before purchasing an item to satisfy themselves that the item or service they are buying represents good value and a good standard.

Mike

Thats not bad at 24 degree's. We have local well known tuner that has a habit of running 32 degree's of timing on everyone's car.

[johnsZ06]

Sounds like too many "old school" Chevy guys getting their hands on tuning software. :bash:

[VT LS1 NZ]

Sounds like too many "old school" Chevy guys getting their hands on tuning software. :bash:

In this case thats not correct but I understand what your saying with todays engine management there's a better way to do it.

We laugh about this tuner here in AK in fact on some recent drag meets his tuned cars run slower than the back yard EFILive tuner a twin Turbo LS1 couldn't do better than 13 .4 and there was no traction problems.Enough said thats Good for business Mike except the poor customer has to pay twice.

Anyway back on topic I personally don't have an issue with accountability if it breaks due to my negligence then I'll fix it. And it hasn't happened yet in 20 years.

[Alvin]

I've been doing this professionally since 2001. I swear its my hobby first and job last and I love doing.

I do feel like I work non-stop. For instance today I did a 9:30am to 10:20pm day It is worth it when a guy gives you some credit or feedback on a message board or when someone calls you the next day to tell you how happy they are with the new tune.

I swear I think the trick is to keep yourself from getting too much work. In a way this is a type of art. By that I mean you can't do it if your wore out and tired. You have to stay sharp, awake, and inventive.

[slowhawk]

I've been doing this professionally since 2001. I swear its my hobby first and job last and I love doing.

I do feel like I work non-stop. For instance today I did a 9:30am to 10:20pm day It is worth it when a guy gives you some credit or feedback on a message board or when someone calls you the next day to tell you how happy they are with the new tune.

I swear I think the trick is to keep yourself from getting too much work. In a way this is a type of art. By that I mean you can't do it if your wore out and tired. You have to stay sharp, awake, and inventive.

I feel ya. My problem is that the whole car is built and tuned by myself.So,like yesterday I did a clutch,headers,fuel system and Procharger setup on a F-body.Then I have to tune it. The busy stuff gets old.Right now we are booked 4 weeks in advance and it's not really spring yet. On top of this I work a 50hr job at nights.

I really like the tuning part when it goes right.The biggest problem is that most of the big builds are 1998 cars which the tuning sucks for.

[98SS2836]

The biggest problem is that most of the big builds are 1998 cars which the tuning sucks for.

I hear you there:bash: :bawl: