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GMPX
May 8th, 2005, 10:53 PM
This is all about giving a more in depth description about the new parameters we have added into our custom operating systems.
As new things are added this list will grow.

For A0000 to A0002 please read this intro.....
GM designed the LS1 PCM with a wonderful feature where the PCM has two main off idle spark maps, the 'High Octane' table and the 'Low Octane' table.
Generally the High Octane table will have timing values reasonably close to the optimum timing values for 'decent' quality fuel (i.e 95 to 98 Octane).
Then there is the Low Octane table which will have much lower timing figures designed to cope with situations where fuel quality maybe poor or a knock sensor failure (MAF failure as well, except EFILive's custom O.S's bypass that check).
The PCM uses a 'scaler' value that varies between 0% - 100%
100% indicates to the PCM to use '100%' of the value in the High Octane table, this scaler value can be reduced towards zero by excessive knock activity. If the PCM detects several knock conditions over a short period (about 3deg of retard) the scaler may drop to about 70 - 80%, this wil have the effect of droping the overall timing down as the PCM will now calculate the final timing figure from a 'mix' of the High Octane table and the 'Low Octane' table.
If the scaler was at 0% this would mean the PCM would only use the timing figures in the Low Octane map.
If the scaler was at 50%, it would do a 1/2 and 1/2 blend of the values in the High Octane table and the values in the Low Octane table.
The system works very well, except it can catch tuners out....here's how.

Lets say you are tuning a car on the dyno and the first run the Octane scaler is at 100%, you run the car up, it has some detonation, so the scaler all of a sudden drops to 91%, you proceed to give the car another run, same thing, there is some detonation and the scaler is bumped down to 78%. At this stage you are now down probably a few degrees of timing on the next run compared to the first run because the octane scaler is doing it's job and reducing the overall timing because the engine is knocking consistantly.
So the next run you decide to add some fuel in, all of a sudden the engine has some extra fuel, but you are still running that reduced timing figure, you might not know it, but you are. You figure it was too lean, that's why it was knocking, so the car comes off the dyno and the customer takes it away.
After giving the car a few hard stabs the customer settles down and drives home normally, by the time they have been driving for about 10 - 15mins the octane scaler has crept back up to 100% because the engine stopped knocking. Then, the driver gives the car a bootfull and it knocks....because all of a sudden the 2 - 3 degrees you lost on the dyno due to the scaler dropping has returned with some normal driving.
So the following parameters were added to enhance the functionality of the Octane scaler and to aid in tuning.

A0000 = Forced Octane Scaler
This option allows you to fix the Octane scaler to a percentage defined by parameter A0001.
This should only be used for tuning/development purposes.
See description for A0001 for further info.

A0001 = Forced Octane Scaler Percentage
Once A0000 is enabled you can now fix the Octane scaler to a percentage that will not change with knock retard.
Possible scenario is you are tuning a car that normally runs on 98 Octane fuel.
You fix the scaler to 100% and tune the High Octane table to it's optimum with good fuel without worrying about knock retard skewing the values as you try different values in the map.
Worth noting, knock retard still functions, it just means your Octane scaler will not move from 100%
Then, the customer states they sometimes run the car on 92 Octane, so you wait until the car has 92 Octane in the tank, set the scaler value to 0% and tune the Low octane table to suit.
Once tuned you can disable the forced scaler and return the PCM back to normal operation knowing the High Octane map is ideal for 98, and the Low Octane map is safe for 92 Octane.
This comes in very handy for the next parameter.

A0002 = Octane Scaler Limiter
This is used to limit the amount the Octane scaler can reach under no knock conditions.
After reading how A0001 works this can now be applied to the following scenario.
A car you tuned on 98 Octane is going on an interstate drive and the customer tells you they are pretty sure 98 Octane is not available, 95 is the best they can get.
Instead of remapping the High Octane map to 95, just set the Octane Scaler limit to say 60%, this will have the effect of dropping the overall timing down, plus allowing the PCM to scale the value down further if knocking continues and once the knock dissapears the scaler will not climb back upto the optimum timing for 98 Octane.

87gmc
May 9th, 2005, 01:19 AM
8)

bink
May 9th, 2005, 04:24 AM
8)
I'll second that!!
Thanks Guys!

Cheers,
joel

FastFieros
May 9th, 2005, 04:28 AM
I really wish you guys would do some V6 3800SC stuff.... PLEASE !...

Loyde

AllCammedUp
May 9th, 2005, 09:17 AM
Freaking awesome! 8)

GMPX
May 10th, 2005, 09:41 AM
I really wish you guys would do some V6 3800SC stuff.... PLEASE !...

Loyde

With DHP and HPT battling it out there 'I' can't see the benefit for us to invest so much time into them, sorry, but my 14 hours days dedicated to the V8's is more than enough right now :(

Appreciate the suggestion none the less.

Cheers,
Ross

FastFieros
May 10th, 2005, 02:36 PM
I really wish you guys would do some V6 3800SC stuff.... PLEASE !...

Loyde

With DHP and HPT battling it out there 'I' can't see the benefit for us to invest so much time into them, sorry, but my 14 hours days dedicated to the V8's is more than enough right now :(

Appreciate the suggestion none the less.

Cheers,
Ross

I think it is more about demand actually.

LS1Edit V8
HPT V8
TunerCat OBDII V8
EFILiveFlash V8

I see the V8 market is alot larger overall... HOWEVER.... The Pontiac Grand Prix GXP just released this month with the E04 PCM. This PCM is the same structure and still on VPW as the 3800SC Series III in the 04 and 05 model Grand Prix. You know you want to supply that V8 market and hopefully supply the 3800SC S3 since the code should be somewhat close.

Loyde

joecar
May 11th, 2005, 07:38 AM
I really wish you guys would do some V6 3800SC stuff.... PLEASE !...
Loyde
Drop in a crate LS1 or LS6...
You Fiero people are very resourceful (...I'm amazed...) so I'm sure you can make it fit nicely.
8)

87gmc
May 11th, 2005, 07:52 AM
I really wish you guys would do some V6 3800SC stuff.... PLEASE !...
Loyde
Drop in a crate LS1 or LS6...
You Fiero people are very resourceful (...I'm amazed...) so I'm sure you can make it fit nicely.
8)

With a 250 Shot HEHE 8)

joecar
May 11th, 2005, 07:58 AM
I really wish you guys would do some V6 3800SC stuff.... PLEASE !...
Loyde
Drop in a crate LS1 or LS6...
You Fiero people are very resourceful (...I'm amazed...) so I'm sure you can make it fit nicely.
8)

With a 250 Shot HEHE 8)
... And twin turbos at 30 psi.... he he he (...maniacal laughter echoing...)

John Skiba
May 11th, 2005, 07:59 AM
:D 450RWHP Fiero. Joe, what do you think that thing would like like launching with a set slicks on it. :) Didn't someone stuff a northstar V8 in their Fiero already?

joecar
May 11th, 2005, 08:39 AM
:D 450RWHP Fiero. Joe, what do you think that thing would like like launching with a set slicks on it. :) Didn't someone stuff a northstar V8 in their Fiero already?

John,

the power:weight ratio would be VERY advantageous :D :D .
I think I heard that someone dropped in a Northstar, and also probably a SBC 350.

Fiero groups are very resourceful (sometime in the 80's I ran into one group that were designing and fitting their Fieros with a home-made fuel injection system (they were building their own microprocessor hardware and writing their own embedded software).

My hat goes off to these guys.

8)

daveb
May 11th, 2005, 06:33 PM
will there be a PID or someway to log what this spark scaler is?

Tordne
May 11th, 2005, 07:23 PM
Under the Spark section there is a pid called 'High/Low Octane Adaptive Spark Scaler {GM.ASPARK}'

This is in version 7.2.2 Patch 001 at least. Just went looking for this today also...

daveb
May 11th, 2005, 08:25 PM
thanks

FastFieros
May 12th, 2005, 02:31 AM
:D 450RWHP Fiero. Joe, what do you think that thing would like like launching with a set slicks on it. :) Didn't someone stuff a northstar V8 in their Fiero already?

Installs already done to the Fiero

3800SC Series I, II, and III (any transmission)
NorthStars 93-01 (any transmission)
SBC (any transmission)
LT1 (any transmission)
LS1 manual only

In developement today here at FastFieros is the LS1/LS6 on a 4T65eHD with complete OBDII system.

http://www.fastfieros.com/CGP/ls1project4.jpg

This is one reason for the need of the EFILive Flash. A custom OS may need to be designed for this. I have my thoughts on how I will approach this already using the truck product line PCM's.

This was the Series III 3800SC I installed last September

http://www.fastfieros.com/CGP/3800_loyde035a.jpg

Please visit my website if you want to see several of my Fiero projects.

http://www.fastfieros.com/projects

Loyde

87gmc
May 12th, 2005, 02:47 AM
:shock:

Black LS1 T/A
November 6th, 2005, 03:04 AM
I got my son a red 1985 Fiero GT for his 17th birthday. I wanted him to learn to do some mechanic’ing, but I initially gave it to a "professional" to solve whatever immediate issues it had.

What a mistake.

To make a long story short... he kept it for almost two weeks trying to fix a whiny electrical sounding noise (the fuel pump). I ended up taking it back to my house to troubleshoot myself I (very little time on my hands these days).

He had installed the pump and left the left the fuel strainer/sock off. :x He nor a "electrical specialist" he had come over couldn't figure out why the pump was running all the time... even with the ignition off. By now we'd both checked the actual wiring inside the tank, and I traced up the harness to inside the car... looked good.

I replaced the relays (heard they are good to replace when they are old anyway, and they are cheap). The pump ran even with the new relay out... only by removing the fuse for the pump would it stop. OK... there MUST be an alternate current route.

After one afternoon of troubleshooting I figured out from the wiring diagram that the oil pressure switch is a backup power route for the pump in case the relay fails. I removed the oil press sw and voila, the pump stopped running. I replaced it ($32) and now that works fine.

But, when the mechanic thought the whining noise was the alternator :roll: , he had me buy one and replaced that.
You can't run the car 10 minutes before it's chewing the last rib to the outside.

I took the old alternator to be checked and, as I suspected, it produced 15+ volts. I'm gonna take the new alternator off and put the old one back on for now (the bushings are kinda loose, but I know it won't eat belts) and see what they did wrong while I take it off.

BTW... Autozone had to give me a OP Switch for an '86 to get the right one (3 conductor). When I asked for an '85, it called for a 2 or 1 conductor option. :? I wonder if it's just the wrong alternator, too. It looks like a slight alignment problem. Any alternate :wink: :lol: issues you can suggest to me would be helpful.

Thanks!

ws6togo
January 9th, 2006, 12:50 PM
... And twin turbos at 30 psi.... he he he (...maniacal laughter echoing...)
dont forget the can muffler and the neon lights underneath...those help with the aerodynamics.

joecar
January 9th, 2006, 01:14 PM
dont forget the can muffler and the neon lights underneath...those help with the aerodynamics. And GT stripes are also good for 10 HP... :banana::banana::banana::cucumber:

No, seriously, a Fiero is a light car, and stuffing in an LS1 will make it haul
(let alone putting on a turbo or two as well).

These Fiero guys are pretty serious and do good engineering; see photos above.

ws6togo
January 9th, 2006, 05:18 PM
Good call Joe....and going down hill with the wind with all the other bolt-ons they should be able to pickup AT LEAST 1MPH in the quarter.:notacrook: