went to cos5

[BACKinBLACK]

Well guys i finally found the time to make the switch to cos 5. I went through all the tutorials, and merged my 2000 os with the corresponding 2002 os. Well i made all the switches and everything and got it all into the car and it starts and runs... very happy with that. BUT after all the time i spent merging the files the dang thing wont idle worth a crap now.

Before i did the merge i got the car to where it would start up and idle perfect. It would go strait to the correct rpm and never had a hickup, now the thing searches for idle if it starts at all without giving it some gas to keep her alive. Once again i went through the cos tutorial and made all the changes it requires. The files i were using were in SD mode, running mafless, it was setup to where i was autoVE'ing it everytime i drove it. I copied everything almost exactly where it could be , so i thought :nixweiss:

My thought maybe that since the 2002 tun has so many different maps compared to a 2000 , and some didnt correspond, that may be part of the problem....ill post some files....

one is the COS5 file that im using, that starts the best.
the other will be the latest original OS that was idling PERFECT
ill also throw in a screen shot of start up (bad idle, had to give it gas to keep from dying)
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g91/riddlerls1/untitled.jpg

[MSURacing]

Why is your IAT at 158deg? That may have something to do with it

[joecar]

MSURacing,

Welcome to the forum... :cheers:

Good observation.

[macca_779]

just looking at you pic and your actual is reading very lean at 17.56. I opened you tun file and your VE is quite low. Your running around 25% in the idle cells. Try boosting it up 50% initially in the <1200 rpm cells. This should get you idleing. Then do another AutoVE. Abit of smooting wouldn't go astray either. Good luck.

[joecar]

Macca, [belated] welcome to the forum. :cheers:

[dfe1]

Is that a VE table or a topographical map of the Rocky Mountains? You'll find an engine runs much more smoothly and consistently if values in adjacent cells are relatively close to each other. I seriously doubt that at 4400 rpm, any enigne runs at a VE of 60% at 70kPa and 102% at 75 kPa, then dives to 74.9% at 80kPa. You definitely need to do some smoothing. Can you give us some enigne specs-- displacement, cam other mods?

[BACKinBLACK]

sorry guys ive been outta touch. I understand what you are saying about how its so high in one spot and then ridiculous in the next. But each time i log my Bens take me right back to there.
the reason the iat was so high is because i just got done driving the car and let it set for a few minutes so it must have heated up, but when i logged while driving it is consistantly below 100F

as far as it running 17.56 it only does that right after you start the car. it will stay running lean until you drive it, then as soon as you go drive it, the AFR will be right where it is supposed to and so if i changed my VE to 50% it would be WAYY to rich other then when i first started it up. From what i understand the TPSvsRPM table in COS5 is supposed to help that problem.

as far as the car, its a 2000 Camaro SS stock displacement ls1 with F14 cam
.598/.598 232/234 on a 112LSA. I also have fast 90/90 intake and throttle body, headers, off road ypipe. Nitrous dave's plate kit. and other misc. mods.

[dfe1]

as far as it running 17.56 it only does that right after you start the car. it will stay running lean until you drive it, then as soon as you go drive it, the AFR will be right where it is supposed to and so if i changed my VE to 50% it would be WAYY to rich other then when i first started it up. From what i understand the TPSvsRPM table in COS5 is supposed to help that problem.

I haven't looked at your .tun file, but unless you've turned it off, the "smog pump" will run after start-up, and that could explain the 17.56 AFR. Make sure the engine is at normal operating coolant temp before you start data logging, otherwise warm-up enrichment will still be adding fuel and your tuning will be based on incorrect information.

I can never get AutoVE to give me anything I find acceptable for a VE map, so I tune VE using the NonautoVE method. I look at specific areas of the log and make changes based on commanded versus Wideband AFR. Use whatever method works for you, but if you're using AutoVE, be sure to filter out throttle transitions or the data will be skewed.

[BACKinBLACK]

Smog pump is not only disabled but removed. I dont actually log the data as far as autoVE'ing purposes until the Car is completely warmed up, but i just logged this segment when i first started the car so i could see what was going on when the car wouldnt start and idle like it should. Plus the car wasnt dead cold, i had driven it probably 20-30 minutes before that screen shot.

[Doc]

I think your problem is because your are not really in OLSD, but some quasi no man's land. First off, B3618 PE Mod by RPM should all be set to "1" not 1.25 EQ or 11.7 AFR that is in your 0004.tun file . B3647 Open Loop fueling based on RPM is waaaay too lean, read the AutoVE tutorial again and it tells you exactly how to setup this important table. P0101, P0102, P0103 all have to be set to 1 trip. Set C2904, C2906 to "1";
A0016 all to "0"; A0008 is for modifying your initial leaness, enrich here for startup/warm up situations. Completely start over with that VE table/ AutoVE tuning process.

Appendix B of the tuning manual is mandatory reading if you have not already been there. I have found life to be much more argreable since I decided to surrender and recalibrate my mind into "thinking" like the pcm. Once you reorganize your tuning efforts around how the pcm thinks by using the "default units" that it uses/does all of the calculations in the calibrations, tuning will be a breeze with EFI Live.

[BACKinBLACK]

B3647 is setup exactly how the COS tutorial shows it to be. It is complete different map now that i have changed over to COS5. the stock OS map is ECTvsMAP where as COS5 changes it to RPMvsMAP. however i did add some more fuel from 75kpa up to make it follow the old map closer. What EQ should i be running from 20-70kpa , i just had it at 1 like it shows in the COS tutorial and in the autove tutorial.

i went through and made the changes you pointed. Some of those im not quite sure how they got changed. I went back and looked at one of my very first tunes i did and they were where they should have been... interesting.
A0008 i added some fuel down in the colder area, we will see how it helps.

thanks for all your help. I knew if i posted it up you guys would help figure it out.
Thanks again,
ill give this new tune a try next time i play with the car, will probably be late next week b/c its supposed to rain here from now til then.

[Jason S.]

I think your problem is because your are not really in OLSD, but some quasi no man's land. First off, B3618 PE Mod by RPM should all be set to "1" not 1.25 EQ or 11.7 AFR that is in your 0004.tun file . B3647 Open Loop fueling based on RPM is waaaay too lean, read the AutoVE tutorial again and it tells you exactly how to setup this important table. P0101, P0102, P0103 all have to be set to 1 trip. Set C2904, C2906 to "1";
.

B3618 is Power enrichment at high throttle angles (according to the description). So if it is set to an E.Q. of 1...wouldn't it be set to 14.63? When I set my E.Q. to read AFR instead of E.Q. ratio.... where there was a 1 is now 14.63. Am I missing something? Also B3647 is open loop ECT commanded Fuel multiplier, wouldn't you want that at 14.63? When does this table become active? I would think that B3605, and B3618 would over ride B3647???? I think we need a better description of what B3647 does.

This is all waaaay confusing.

Jason.

[Doc]

No problemo,
I stand corrected on the tutorial...I just looked it up and that is exactly like it states. My only real problem with it was the 80-90 MAP cells being set to "1". To me that is too lean. Now the tutorial is just a guide I know but I would richen up those areas a bit.

Have you read Appendix B of the tuning tool tutorial yet? If not, DO IT.

The main idea behind setting your PE multiplier table to "1" EQ which = 14.63 or as defined (for example, on a diesel) is to ensure that the vehicle does not use this low resolution 2-D table for fueling. You see, during WOT the car is in OL, the Narrow band O2's are not used and the pcm will use the richer of the two reference tables (B3618 PE Multi, or (B3647 COS)/(B3605 Normal OS). AutoVE tuning with a Wideband O2 allows you to remap the VE table to account for your modifications. B3647 obviously has more resolution than B3618 so using it exclusively helps aid in any tuners ultimate goal...to be able to get the actual fueling to equal what the commanded fueling is. No magic beans, IFR, PE etc.

[joecar]

Exactly as Doc says...

a. I steeply ramp up my B3647 starting at 70 kPa so that I'm rich enough at 80 kPa to avoid knocking, and this also seems to make engine response quicker;
b. if you universally use EQ units (and learn to think in EQ rather than AFR), you will find it easier to work with the various tables; EQ directly compares your airfuel to stoichiometric, and the multipliers just simply multiply; appendix B explains it.
c. the commanded EQ is determined by the richer of B3618 and B3647(COS)/ B3605(non-COS); this can be observed using the ScanTool-TuneTool pid linking (set the B3618 table to a slightly different EQ than B3647, and log GM.EQIVRATIO).

[BACKinBLACK]

What kinda of changes do i need to make to be able to turn the a/c on without killing it. Im looking at the a/c parameters and just dont know where to start.

[Doc]

B4603 Desired Idle

[BACKinBLACK]

yeah already upped the rpms, it needs some spark correction or fueling correction.

[69camaro5speed]

blackinblack l have the same problem if only i knew what you did to fix yours. my log looks just like yours