Torque Management reduction

[Redline Motorsports]

How much can we reduce torque management tables before we are on the edge but still free the car up from TM? I have a couple 05' A4 goats to tune and would like to firm up the shifts as well as reduce the TM so we can get less spark reduction down low and in the mid range.

I found a table B0515 Torque Reduction by spark option. If this table is set to disable, shouldn't it eliminate all spark related reductions regarding TM? I wonder if this would have less of an impact on the trans as opposed to some of the trans TM tables..

[ScarabEpic22]

I have no idea for the LS2 in the goats, but I know for the I6 you can remove as much as you want b/c the 4L60E should hold all 275/275 the engine can put out. I have almost all of mine gone, I think I have ~15% in each the trans and the engine left as that is what makes my shifts nice and firm. I might play with pulling even more out when summer rolls around and I have a little more free time.

I wouldnt hesitate to pull ~50-70% of it out, but dont the goats have the same 4L60E I have as well? Maybe start with 50% and go from there.

[Redline Motorsports]

Yah I think its still the same 4L60E with a TCM. With the reduction you applied, did you ever log any of the shifts for spark retard?

I also wonder if TM is just at the shifts or is it still present during spool up. The LS2 is a different beast!

[ScarabEpic22]

Torque Management is only during shifts AFAIK, it is used to pull a set degree of timing so the trans doesnt get "overstressed" which is complete BS as GM shouldnt be pairing engines and trans that cant work together.

Just look at the TB SS with the LS2 and the 4L70E. Stock guys are blowing the trans up, and a few of these guys are 100% stock (paper air filter even). Most with less than 10-15K mi. So, GM really missed a beat on this one, it was a bad choice. Should have given them a 6L60E or 6L80E instead with paddle shifters, that would be so badass.

[Rhino79]

The Goat I tuned today was my first LS2. It had headers, different mid-pipes, intake, and thats it. Stock it put down 330hp at the wheels and 325 ft lbs. torque. The tq mgt. seems to only be on upshifts, as the customer requested, I removed 100%. It felt great, I made sure he understood what tq mgt did and what "could" happen, but he wanted it all gone. I went ahead and deleted all the Spark retard and all the Transmission retard tables too...along with a slight increase in line pressure and 0'ing the shift times, it will actually skate the ass end a little on the 1-2 shift.

[ScarabEpic22]

Hahaha, yep I know the 1-2 shift thing ohh so well. Right now my TB I6 spins the rear regardless of weather (wet is a little scarier though). After I got my trans fixed and my Vette servo working, I had to change the line pressure back to stock b/c it was spinning the tires waay to much. Now I get a little kick and the speedo jumps 5mph and I start accelerating in 2nd at 45mph. Now I need to change the WOT shift points back to stock as I wont hit the limiter now and having it shift at 5800 is no fun when it can do it better at 6100-6200. :D

[Redline Motorsports]

The Goat I tuned today was my first LS2. It had headers, different mid-pipes, intake, and thats it. Stock it put down 330hp at the wheels and 325 ft lbs. torque. The tq mgt. seems to only be on upshifts, as the customer requested, I removed 100%. It felt great, I made sure he understood what tq mgt did and what "could" happen, but he wanted it all gone. I went ahead and deleted all the Spark retard and all the Transmission retard tables too...along with a slight increase in line pressure and 0'ing the shift times, it will actually skate the ass end a little on the 1-2 shift.

What did the car make with headers?

You set the shift times to 0?

[ScarabEpic22]

P.S. My shift times are 0 too, except for the firs 2 columns in the 1-2 and 2-3 areas where they are .1. Really firm, positive shifts. Instead of losing ground now b/c so much timing is pulled, I jump a little ahead (really nice for those race-thingys). :D

[Rhino79]

Yeah, I set them to 0, but unlike the LS1's there is another table that leaves adaptive shift learning active even with the shift times at 0. It was nice and firm. He has not gone back to the dyno yet, will see soon how much headers, intake and tune was worth.

Stock he ran 13.6 with a 2.2 60' and with the headers before the tune he ran 13.1 with the same 60'. He will be going back to the track probably within the week or at least by next week.

[LT1WIRING]

so when pulling tqmgt what tables do we alter?

[ScarabEpic22]

I cannot comment on the LSx motors, but the LL8 has 2 different areas where Spark Reduction (aka TM) comes into play. One is in the engine part and the other is in the transmission (its a PCM, not seperate ECM and TCM). Basically for the 4L60E look for a Torque Reduction tree under the trans and 0 out the tables. The engine part for the LL8 is under: engine->spark->Torque Management.

Hope this helps.

[Rhino79]

Same in the LSx stuff too.

[N0DIH]

Is TM on shifts only or off the line too?

I have a Jesse tuned 454 and off the line, I would expect a 3.73 geared 454 to be able to annihilate the tires if I punched it. But it won't even come close. It is hard to spin the tires on wet pavement. It makes great power everywhere else but launch. Not saying it is doggy, but I would just think a tuned 454 would do much better than it does.

[ScarabEpic22]

Yes to both, it does pull spark timing during shifts but it also (at least on the LL8 :) ) doesnt all the throttle to open 100% until like 2500-3000rpm (stock). They are all DBW, its its a cable tb then I have no idea.

[N0DIH]

I have heard the 4L80E doesn't NEED TM, and disabling it is fine to do.

Any thoughts? I am not hard on mine, just a bit annoyed with how it feels off the line. During shifts doesn't bother me much, it is there, but not too bad.

It seems that TM would be a detriment to good mpg, pulling timing out in acceleration times, making the engine work harder just to get the truck moving.

[cmitchell17]

I think TM only works right when it shifts, so while it is shifting no torque is being transfered to the tires while it is shifting. Driving normally around town stock its probably only taking out about 3 or 4 degrees and only druing the shift.

At wot my truck will shift very slow on the 1-2 so I have to have TR its less above about 250+ becuase that is the range where i have max pressure for my shift. Without TR my 1-2 shift would probably feel stock becuase it can't shift hard but with TR it seems like its a little firm but not enough for a chirp.

[Rhino79]

What did the car make with headers?

You set the shift times to 0?

The car just made 360 with an unlocked converter and he picked up .4 with just the tune. 13.6 stock, 13.1 after the headers and CAI, and then 12.7 @ 108mph after the tune. This is a stock auto transmission too, no converter, no different gearing. I thought those were pretty good numbers for an auto GTO.:beer: