Could you guys look at my tune Please.........

[FreddyG]

Hi Guys,

I just had an A&A Vortech SQ V2 S-trim blower put on my 2001 Corvette and was wondering if you guys could look at my tune to see if there is anything that could be done to help my gas mileage go up or any tables that could use tweaking to help it run better. I know that it sounds weird that I'm looking for better gas mileage on a car that has 500+ rwhp, but at $3 a gallon for petrol, every little bit helps. It went from getting 30 mpg to 21 mpg (and that's with my foot out of it). When my foot goes in it, my DIC (Driver Info Center) just does this :Eyecrazy: and displays "Are you Crazy"!

The car has a built vacuum modulated FLP Level IV trans with a Yank SY3500 converter and a 3.42 gear in the back if that helps. Fuel system upgrades include MotoTron 60 pound injectors, RaceTronix fuel pump and harness, and a Kenne Bell Boosta Pump.

My Current_Vortech_Tune............. (http://members.aol.com/onebadassc5/Current_SC_Tune.tun)

I read that DFCO helped with gas mileage and have used the search here and google to read up on anything that I could find concerning it. I understand what it does, but don't feel comfortable enough to get in there and change the settings because I'm afraid I'll do something wrong.

Could you Guys Please give me some advice/help on anyhing that might be missing or could be updated/tweaked. I'm a newbie and would Definitely Appreciate the help!

Thank You in Advance!

[dfe1]

File won't open in 7.4. Causes program to hang.

[FreddyG]

Thanks for trying! :cheers:

How can I fix that?

[joecar]

You could try to reread the tune from the PCM using 7.4.

[dfe1]

That shouldn't be an issue should it? I have a number of files that were done with 7.3.whatever, and they all open fine in 7.4.

[joecar]

I agree, they should open just fine...
but in the meantime he needs us to see his tune...
:cheers:

[FreddyG]

So what can I do so that you guys can look at my tune?

I've downloaded 7.4, but haven't installed it yet. I'll do it tonight and upload the new file. I wouldn't think that it'd make a difference though, but what do I know?

[FreddyG]

Would you guys try the file again Please? It may have become corrupted when I uploaded it. I saved it in a different place and it seems to work better now. Please tell me what you think. I'm sorry about that!

Thanks again!

[mr.prick]

i would think you would need more fuel with a blower.
your ve table looks stock except that one spot.
i wonder if your running lean now.


1498

[FreddyG]

Thanks for the reply!

It was tuned on a Mustang Dyno and it runs fine on the street. Of course with the weather here, I haven't had a chance to log in on the street that much.

He commanded the AFR at 12:1, but I'm going to put an alky kit on it, which should make the AFR about 11.5:1 when it kicks in (starts to ramp on at 3 pounds of boost according to a 2 bar MAP sensor). I'm using that as insurance against a lean out.

What should I do and what should I log to see if it's lean or not? The part that's circled in the picture, what does that show? I'm sorry, but I'm still a newbie with this and am just starting to really pick it up.

Thank You for your help! :cheers:

[Doc]

Hi Freddy,
Your VE table does look rather odd indeed. I think the reason why is your IFR table. Do you have a Fuel Pressure reading to at least be in the ball park. I would think that you would be above the normal expected stock 58 psi at idle and above. Short of that, not having a Fuel Pressure sensor-Good Tutorial in the Help section of the Tuning Tool, the reason why I say your VE table "Looks Odd" is because down low in the idle, low load range it has been drastically increased but at where I would expect you to have greater demand the table looks relatively untouched. Was the car put into OLSD and autotuned? Not to be an arse but for the peanut gallery...It obviously has not. You Freddy, with the help of this forum and the proper instrumentation could do better than this attempt at tuning your car.

For starters I would ditch this first generation 01 operating system you have and move up to a Custom Operating System, hey it's free! Therein lies control of your spark tables, extended VE ranges, Valet Mode, N20 just to name a few. The tutorials and the Wiki along with a wideband and your commitment, I gurantee you satisfaction. Are you "across the pond?"
What version of EFI Live do you have? Do you have a WBO2? If you are in the UK how would you like a once in a lifetime opportunity? I am in Madrid on business until saturday.

[joecar]

I agree with above comments...

Your VE table does look odd and kind of low for forced induction, and your timing may be a little high (but I'm willing to be corrected on what I just said).

As Doc said, check the following:
- does the IFR table match the injectors, regulator and measured rail pressure...?
- is the VE table based on wideband O2 correction (AutoVE tuned)...?
- if you're going to run with MAF sensor, has the MAF table been corrected (it shows a squiggle in the middle)...?

These 3 are the starting points to both better performance and better economy.

I agree, you will definitely benefit from running COS5, you will have better control of the AFR thru-out the RPM/MAP range... but only if your IFR, VE, MAF tables are correct.

[FreddyG]

Hi Freddy,
Your VE table does look rather odd indeed. I think the reason why is your IFR table. Do you have a Fuel Pressure reading to at least be in the ball park. I would think that you would be above the normal expected stock 58 psi at idle and above. Short of that, not having a Fuel Pressure sensor-Good Tutorial in the Help section of the Tuning Tool, the reason why I say your VE table "Looks Odd" is because down low in the idle, low load range it has been drastically increased but at where I would expect you to have greater demand the table looks relatively untouched. Was the car put into OLSD and autotuned? Not to be an arse but for the peanut gallery...It obviously has not. You Freddy, with the help of this forum and the proper instrumentation could do better than this attempt at tuning your car.

For starters I would ditch this first generation 01 operating system you have and move up to a Custom Operating System, hey it's free! Therein lies control of your spark tables, extended VE ranges, Valet Mode, N20 just to name a few. The tutorials and the Wiki along with a wideband and your commitment, I gurantee you satisfaction. Are you "across the pond?"
What version of EFI Live do you have? Do you have a WBO2? If you are in the UK how would you like a once in a lifetime opportunity? I am in Madrid on business until saturday.

Hi Doc! :wave:

I REALLY Appreciate you looking at my tune and dissecting it. That's the kind of help that I need. Right now, I don't have a WB02 but when the weather gets nicer here, I might see if Chad (black02SS) can set me up with one.

I'm in Illinois but if I were across the pond, I'd Very Happily take you up on your offer. That was Very Nice of you to offer and I Thank You :cheers:

Actually my fuel pressure is around 70 pounds at idle and drops to around 60 pounds at full boost (10 lbs.). What can I do to the IFR to check it? What do I log? I'm not sure if he put it in OLSD and did an SD tune. Would I have to upgrade my V1 to the Commercial version to get the COS5? If so, it'd be no big deal because it's only $50 now isn't it? Would COS5 make it harder for a newbie like me to tune my car because I could really get in there and give it a thorough tune?


I agree with above comments...

Your VE table does look odd and kind of low for forced induction, and your timing may be a little high (but I'm willing to be corrected on what I just said).

As Doc said, check the following:
- does the IFR table match the injectors, regulator and measured rail pressure...?
- is the VE table based on wideband O2 correction (AutoVE tuned)...?
- if you're going to run with MAF sensor, has the MAF table been corrected (it shows a squiggle in the middle)...?

These 3 are the starting points to both better performance and better economy.

I agree, you will definitely benefit from running COS5, you will have better control of the AFR thru-out the RPM/MAP range... but only if your IFR, VE, MAF tables are correct.

Thanks JoeCar! I also Appreciate your help, as you have also bailed me out in the past! :cheers:

He might not have put it in OLSD when he tuned under 4k rpm, because I don't think that he had a wb02 in it, but I'm not sure. I'll have to call him about that one. He might've been reading off the NB's until he tuned it over 4k. Once again, I'll check with him. While I'm asking questions, what other ones should I bring up?

How can I check the IFR table and compare them to what I should have? Would I use Marcin's (RedHardSupra's) spreadsheet or is there another way to do it?

I'm going add a meth kit to my car just for the safety factor and then probably keep the timing where it's at. Can you Please tell me what you mean by a squiggle and where do I find that?

The tuner had tried to bump a bit more timing into my car too but had gotten quite a bit of kr, so he bumped it back a bit. He tried 19°, and then got kr and set it back to 16°. It seems to run fine, but the tires hate it! ;)

Sorry for all of the newbie questions, but I guess that's expected from a newbie!

Thank You Guys again!

[Doc]

No problemo dude,
The only reason why I suspected you were from accross the pond was the 3 dollar a gallon gas reference. What method or test equipment, apparatus are you determining your fuel pressure from/by? Marcin's newest spreadsheet with the adaptation for FP will serve you well. When I guestimated your FP by your aforementioned mods the numbers I got seemed low which may in fact account for some of the "High" low end, low load VE numbers that are in your tune. The "tuner" may have arbitrarily jacked some IFR numbers and then jacked the idle area VE numbers and for a finale jacked the MAF's numbers to guarantee Tony Soprano type counciling for your car.

Start with the acuisition of the WBO2 and Commercial version, I am sure Chad or Jesse can hook up with that.

Get the COS setup. Feel free to ask any questions whenever, that is why we are here.

[joecar]

Varying fuel pressure can be a problem (makes it difficult to calculate the IFR) unless you have a MAP-referenced regulator (IFR now becomes flat); if you could plot rail pressure at various MAP values, you could calculate the IFR at each value...

but I'm wondering if the drop in rail pressure is directly correlated to change in MAP or to something else...?

If remember correctly (it's on my other PC at home), looking at your MAF table, it had a ripple somewhere in the middle that didn't look quite right... (...or I may have been looking at someone else's tune...).

With timing, just make sure that knock is not occuring...
If it is, then check both your actual AFR (requires a wideband) and timing advance.

[mr.prick]

do you have a wideband o2 sensor?

[FreddyG]

No problemo dude,
The only reason why I suspected you were from accross the pond was the 3 dollar a gallon gas reference. What method or test equipment, apparatus are you determining your fuel pressure from/by? Marcin's newest spreadsheet with the adaptation for FP will serve you well. When I guestimated your FP by your aforementioned mods the numbers I got seemed low which may in fact account for some of the "High" low end, low load VE numbers that are in your tune. The "tuner" may have arbitrarily jacked some IFR numbers and then jacked the idle area VE numbers and for a finale jacked the MAF's numbers to guarantee Tony Soprano type counciling for your car.

Start with the acuisition of the WBO2 and Commercial version, I am sure Chad or Jesse can hook up with that.

Get the COS setup. Feel free to ask any questions whenever, that is why we are here.

Hi Doc,

I'm getting my fuel pressure readings from my fuel rail mounted pressure gauge(I have a pillar pod with boost and fuel pressure in it).

What is Tony Soprano counseling? I dropped the idle on it after the tune because he had it too high. I dropped it to 100 rpm over stock. Would that effect anything. What effect would all of that "jacking" that the tuner did have on my car?

I'll have to get either an LC1 from Chad or a PLX WB02 and definitely upgrade to the Commercial license. I figure, what the heck with gas prices the way they are now, $50 barely fills the tank! I might as well put that money to some good use and get the Commercial upgrade!:D



Varying fuel pressure can be a problem (makes it difficult to calculate the IFR) unless you have a MAP-referenced regulator (IFR now becomes flat); if you could plot rail pressure at various MAP values, you could calculate the IFR at each value...

but I'm wondering if the drop in rail pressure is directly correlated to change in MAP or to something else...?

If remember correctly (it's on my other PC at home), looking at your MAF table, it had a ripple somewhere in the middle that didn't look quite right... (...or I may have been looking at someone else's tune...).

With timing, just make sure that knock is not occuring...
If it is, then check both your actual AFR (requires a wideband) and timing advance.

Thank You! :cheers: I've got no knock anywhere now and it runs good, but it never hurts have someone (you Guys) double check and give me some pointers to improve upon my tune and hopefully longevity and if I'm lucky, driveability too! Not asking for much am I? :D



do you have a wideband o2 sensor?

Not yet, but it's going to be in there soon. :cheers:

[joecar]

This is your MAF table B5001, see the kink in the middle...

[FreddyG]

Yes Sir, I see it. What does that mean and how does that effect my tune?

Can I just adjust that to follow the slope?

Thanks! :cheers:

[joecar]

You won't be able to do anything until you get a wideband and get the IFR and VE tables corrected.

I can't image the MAF flow characteristics just changing like that... the MAF flow usually follows a 3rd or 4th order polynomial and looks smooth...

You really can't just smooth it, because:
a. you don't know if the tuner is tweaking the MAF table to achieve some AFR;
b. you don't know if the rest of the curve has also been moved up/down;
c. you don't know if it came this way from the factory (but that's not a reason to not change it)
d. some other reason...

The kink is small, and it may not make much difference... but it just looks strange (it says that this table may have been altered to compensate for some other tables not being close enough).

Edit: if it were smoothed, then at around 100 g/s, the kinked curve would be about 10% lower than the smoothed curve... so 10% may be significantly large.

[FreddyG]

You won't be able to do anything until you get a wideband and get the IFR and VE tables corrected.

I can't image the MAF flow characteristics just changing like that... the MAF flow usually follows a 3rd or 4th order polynomial and looks smooth...

You really can't just smooth it, because:
a. you don't know if the tuner is tweaking the MAF table to achieve some AFR;
b. you don't know if the rest of the curve has also been moved up/down;
c. you don't know if it came this way from the factory (but that's not a reason to not change it)
d. some other reason...

The kink is small, and it may not make much difference... but it just looks strange (it says that this table may have been altered to compensate for some other tables not being close enough).

Edit: if it were smoothed, then at around 100 g/s, the kinked curve would be about 10% lower than the smoothed curve... so 10% may be significantly large.

You definitely lost me there (bolded out part), but from the rest of your post, I am starting to understand.

Would the fact that it's Supercharged and maxes out the MAF at around 4800--5000 rpm's have any effect on that table or any other one?

[joecar]

Oh sorry... I was just trying to say it should be smoother than that...

Maxing out the MAF table won't effect the table itself, but it will effect fueling... you now have to "guess" for airflows above the max...
you might consider MAF-less "speed-density" operation using a COS.

[Black02SS]

As others have stated in the thread, a wideband on this type of vehicle is very important. regardless if the car was tuned in SD/MAF, your gas consumption will be dependent on how close the AFR is while cruising around, injector settings, and if they go rich on decel. A log with AFR or even your stock O2's may work on this. From looking at the tune it appears that DFCO is turned off.

Also, do you currently have a 2 Bar MAP in the vehicle and what is your motor setup as well as max boost?

[FreddyG]

As others have stated in the thread, a wideband on this type of vehicle is very important. regardless if the car was tuned in SD/MAF, your gas consumption will be dependent on how close the AFR is while cruising around, injector settings, and if they go rich on decel. A log with AFR or even your stock O2's may work on this. From looking at the tune it appears that DFCO is turned off.

Also, do you currently have a 2 Bar MAP in the vehicle and what is your motor setup as well as max boost?

Thanks Chad!

I pm'ed you on the other forum.

I'm ordering a WB02 tomorrow for it. The tuner might not have turned DFCO back on after tuning it. My tune is with the 2001+ OEM OS, but I might get the Commercial upgrade from you and try the COS. Would I need COS3 or COS5? The only 2 Bar MAP that's in the vehicle would be the one for the Meth kit. The OEM 1 Bar is on the car.

I have a stock motor running on 10 lbs. of boost (with a restrictor plate in to cut top end boost, but give me an extra shot of bottom end).

How do I turn DFCO back on?

Thank You again! :cheers:

[Black02SS]

Replied back to your PM. Just need your email and I'll resend your file back over. :)