808 Ecm

[limited cv8r]

Can an 808 ecm in an early holden vn/vp be modified to output 8192-baud instead of 160-baud or do you need to upgrade to a vr/vs manual ecm? Are any of the US ecm's compatible?

[MICK]

A 165 has 8192 I think from mem.

That would be the USA version of a 808.

Worth having a look...:)

[Biggsy]

A 165 has 8192 I think from mem.

That would be the USA version of a 808.

Worth having a look...:)

Correct.

[limited cv8r]

what about a "ECM COMPUTER # 1227727", is this compatible

[MICK]

If I was heading in that direction I go for the VR man ECM 16183082 / 16206305 (http://www.geocities.com/memcals/comps.html#16183082).

They are supported and it's just a upgrade really.

Most of the wires should even be the same colour.

Craig does a nice little GP3 Switcher that will allow you to have some fun.

You could even put a Ostrich in it and pick up a little real time.....:)

[limited cv8r]

doesn't seem to be a lot of manual VR ECM's around,lots of autos. Do you know where I can locate one in AUS. There's a 165 on EBAY http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CHEV-ECM-COMPUTER-1227165-SUIT-CORVETTE-CAMARO-TPI-MAF_W0QQitemZ160125838096QQihZ006QQcategoryZ32067Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
starting at $120 but 4days to go.

[Biggsy]

what about a "ECM COMPUTER # 1227727", is this compatible

It's NOT compatible

[Biggsy]

Another note, if you run the vn/p memcal in the vr/vs manual PCM, I'm pretty sure (from memory I tried it) that you wont get the higher communication rate for logging. Its determined in the code of the memcal.

[limited cv8r]

I've got a moates autoprom and chips etc so I should be able to run any BIN file, I assume. It's just trying to find an ECM that's a pain.

[Biggsy]

I've got a moates autoprom and chips etc so I should be able to run any BIN file, I assume. It's just trying to find an ECM that's a pain.

as long as the bin file suits a model that supports 8192. I have run a VR manual bin (cleared security) in a vn before to get the higher rate, unfortunately, if you are running an auto trans, you loose TCC lockup and ingear idle up etc..

cheers,

[limited cv8r]

did you run that in an 808 or an ECM upgrade. I'm starting to get confused:Eyecrazy:

[Biggsy]

did you run that in an 808 or an ECM upgrade. I'm starting to get confused:Eyecrazy:

Sorry, was late and I had "sandy" eyes

VN commodore
VR manual computer
VR manual memcal (VATS disabled)

Cheers,

[MICK]

I have a 082, but the reason I have it is because it may need repair.

Their is a fella down the road that offers a exchange service.

If you have no luck send me a pm and we can have a chat.

mick

[GMPX]

808 is missing the 8192 baud chip (16064096 from memory) plus some passives.
082's are like finding rocking horse s**t
Beware the 165's were built about the same time the dreadful run of 808's happened.
You still need to run VR+ Memcal to get 8192 baud. VN Memcal & 082 will still only give 160 baud.

Cheers,
Ross

[limited cv8r]

ok, so in a nutshell i will need a 082 ECM and run at least a VR bin file. Does this apply to emulation as well with the autoprom. Sorry about all the questions, I thought it would be a lot simpler. What are my limitations with the 808 compared to the 082 in regards to tuning apart from the baud rate?

[Biggsy]

ok, so in a nutshell i will need a 082 ECM and run at least a VR bin file. Does this apply to emulation as well with the autoprom. Sorry about all the questions, I thought it would be a lot simpler. What are my limitations with the 808 compared to the 082 in regards to tuning apart from the baud rate?

The tuning part would be a quick update as far as the emulator goes but its the logging speed at 160 that will kill you with an 808
I can get my hands on a vr man ecm but its not cheap (over $400):Eyecrazy:

[limited cv8r]

:cheers: cheers, I'll let you know how I get on.

[MICK]

You will need to run a vr man memcal just to get the right resistor network.

The Chip side of things you got sorted.

This is a VR .bin I pulled from a 082 HSV GTS 6 speed man build 129.

Mask is $3c. $12 will let you look around and change a few things.

Worth a look.

[Biggsy]

You will need to run a vr man memcal just to get the right resistor network.

The Chip side of things you got sorted.

This is a VR .bin I pulled from a 082 HSV GTS 6 speed man build 129.

Mask is $3c. $12 will let you look around and change a few things.

Worth a look.

Resistor packs on vr are the same as vn/p. Only changes between 4, v6, v8
ie, use a v8 memcal if you are runnin a v8 and v6 memcal in a v6.
Also, vr/s manual use 256k eprom where as vn/p uses 128k.

It is possible to use a vn/p memcal for vr/s manual program as long as you resolder a larger eprom to it. Have done this many times and the 'limp home' works fine too.

Cheers,

[limited cv8r]

has anyone had anything to do with the COME racing dual table chips that come with thier cam upgrades? Is there any special way needed to read these chips? Are they a 256 chip with 2 x 128 images on the same chip.

[Biggsy]

I have seen a VR V6 auto one, they didn't use two images on one chip.
The code has been rewritten to use extra tables (much like COS in EFILVE)

Cheers,

[Delco]

I have seen a VR V6 auto one, they didn't use two images on one chip.
The code has been rewritten to use extra tables (much like COS in EFILVE)

Cheers,

Come use a special version of kalmaker , 2nd maps are accessed through a a switch to the ECM

[limited cv8r]

Was quite a few years ago now when I fitted it to my WB ute, but COME told me which pin nmber on the ECM needed to be grounded for the 2nd tables. Can you still read these chips and edit the bin file or do they only work with kalmaker. I have read the bin of the chip but can not get any tables to make sense with any definition files. The chip was for an VN V8 Auto. There is a COME label on the chip which says HSV89ocs.

[Delco]

Was quite a few years ago now when I fitted it to my WB ute, but COME told me which pin nmber on the ECM needed to be grounded for the 2nd tables. Can you still read these chips and edit the bin file or do they only work with kalmaker. I have read the bin of the chip but can not get any tables to make sense with any definition files. The chip was for an VN V8 Auto. There is a COME label on the chip which says HSV89ocs.

You could edit it if you created a definition file and found the 4 checksums , not worth the effort really.

[limited cv8r]

thanks for the replies fella's. Here is the COME bin file if anyone is interested.

[MICK]

Resistor packs on vr are the same as vn/p. Only changes between 4, v6, v8
ie, use a v8 memcal if you are runnin a v8 and v6 memcal in a v6.
Also, vr/s manual use 256k eprom where as vn/p uses 128k.

It is possible to use a vn/p memcal for vr/s manual program as long as you resolder a larger eprom to it. Have done this many times and the 'limp home' works fine too.

Cheers,

Thanks Dave,

Whats the story with the white board hanging over the top of the resistor network.

It's been a while, from what I remember this is a knock filter?

Whats the go when interchanging these types.

Cheers

Mick

[GMPX]

Wow, this is like a time warp back to the DIY-EFI Email group days....

[Delco]

Wow, this is like a time warp back to the DIY-EFI Email group days....

Not enough geekyness yet Ross :)


Speaking of the old forum , Grumpy passed away a few weeks back :master: , bet hes giving the bloke upstairs hell

[MICK]

Shame about Bruce, He sure did leave his mark.

Hay Ross, Why did'nt you guy's get into the OBD1 tuning side of things? I am just scratching me head a little on this?

I see that nobody has really given up the $A6 Vt definition, yet.

I have really noticed the numbers gathering of late and I think it's long over due.....:)

Cheers

[Biggsy]

Wow, this is like a time warp back to the DIY-EFI Email group days....

LOL, those were the days...........

[Biggsy]

Shame about Bruce, He sure did leave his mark.

Hay Ross, Why did'nt you guy's get into the OBD1 tuning side of things? I am just scratching me head a little on this?

I see that nobody has really given up the $A6 Vt definition, yet.

I have really noticed the numbers gathering of late and I think it's long over due.....:)

Cheers

Or the VS V6 definition.....

[Biggsy]

Thanks Dave,

Whats the story with the white board hanging over the top of the resistor network.

It's been a while, from what I remember this is a knock filter?

Whats the go when interchanging these types.

Cheers

Mick

It is a knock filter.
I have a few V8 ones lying around somewhere. There is a difference between the 6's and 8's ones (different resonance knock frequency between the blocks)
I have used the v6 ones on v8's before.

Cheers,

[MICK]

Or the VS V6 definition.....


There has been a little going on with the $51 for the V6 of late.

I think it will open the door for the rest.

cheers

[GMPX]

Speaking of the old forum , Grumpy passed away a few weeks back :master: , bet hes giving the bloke upstairs hell

Oh that's a shame to hear, I remember back then he was pretty sick, I guess he's been battling on since. The other one I wonder about is Ludis Langen, I wonder whatever happened to him? He's web page still exists HERE (http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/), remember he used to trace the PCB's out by hand :Eyecrazy: :Eyecrazy: , yes those were the days, before stupid PowerPC processors found their way into cars and calibrations took up as much space in a ROM as this post :) .
But, I've forgotten all that HC11 stuff now (as I bet you have too Daniel).

Cheers,
Ross

[GMPX]

It is a knock filter.
I have a few V8 ones lying around somewhere. There is a difference between the 6's and 8's ones (different resonance knock frequency between the blocks)
I have used the v6 ones on v8's before.

Cheers,

How does Kalmaker get along with this?, do they have a bunch of old Memcals or must you use your own for the real time conversion?

Cheers,
Ross

[Biggsy]

How does Kalmaker get along with this?, do they have a bunch of old Memcals or must you use your own for the real time conversion?

Cheers,
Ross

They have a realtime conversion board which plugs in place of the memcal.

On it is a nonvolatile ram (replaces eprom)

A security PAL (Kalmaker has rewritten the code in the bin file so it checks for this onboard chip is in place to enable use of the calibration) $280 each mind you!


A bunch of resistors (Limp home resistors)


A removable resistor pack (4cyl, 6cyl, V8 selection)


There isnt a position on the RT board for the knock filter.
The only way to use a knockfilter is to modify a memcal to have a PAL fitted but you lose the RT tuning!

Cheers,

[GMPX]

Sorry, I was unclear in my post, I understood what Kalmaker did for the real time, but for guys with HSV's what about the knock filter?

Cheers,
Ross

[Biggsy]

Sorry, I was unclear in my post, I understood what Kalmaker did for the real time, but for guys with HSV's what about the knock filter?

Cheers,
Ross

Turn knock sensing off when they use the RT board (no spot to install it) and turn it on when program is written to an eprom on a memcal

The RT board usually isn't left in the PCM when programming is finished.

[Delco]

All my realtime boards have knock filters attached , the space is on the board to unsolder a std knock board and fit it.


I have nearly forgotten 68HC11 coding completely , I am not sure if I still even have all that old VS code we played with years ago Ross.

What do you guys needs for the $A6 code , I may still have some old notes laying around , at one stage we had it fully disassembled

[MICK]

Dan,

Any info on the $A6 is good info, as when you look back through all the old forums and archives it seems to stop at the VS.

Does anybody know what processor the early Holden VT V8 uses for the $A6?

Any info you could dig up Dan would be greatly appreicate.

Cheers

Mick

[Delco]

Dan,

Any info on the $A6 is good info, as when you look back through all the old forums and archives it seems to stop at the VS.

Does anybody know what processor the early Holden VT V8 uses for the $A6?

Any info you could dig up Dan would be greatly appreicate.

Cheers

Mick

Still motorola 68HC11 I believe , well same coding anyway to dissasemble

[GMPX]

Dan,

Any info on the $A6 is good info, as when you look back through all the old forums and archives it seems to stop at the VS.

Does anybody know what processor the early Holden VT V8 uses for the $A6?

Any info you could dig up Dan would be greatly appreicate.

Cheers

Mick

Holden really cheaped out on the VT PCM's, the US V6's had flash type PCM's since about 1996, also running the 3800!

Cheers,
Ross

[MICK]

I seem to see a change in the code from VS V6 on.

With the intro of the 27C010 memcal the code looks alot more busy.

There looks like there is alot more 16 bit code?

The disassembler Iam playing with will not load the 128kb bin files I want to play with and I have not had any drama hitting on the early bin files.

Iam thinking that either the software Iam using has a buffer issue with the size of the file....or Hummmmm not sure.

I have had a play with the free version of IDA Pro, but by default the free version does not support motorola 68hc11.

Hummmm it's just got me a little interested....:)

[Biggsy]

Anything to do with the application of MAF from VS V6?

[GMPX]

Mick, the 27C010 PCM's need the ROM split in two, the HC11 can't access an address space of 128K so they use bank switching (64K & 64K), makes disassembly a nightmare because the PCM will often switch between banks for various tasks, you need to try to keep track of when that happens.

Cheers,
Ross

[MICK]

Anything to do with the application of MAF from VS V6?


I would have to say yep, that and sequential injection.

I am sure there will be other extra goodies in there as well.

cheers

[MICK]

Mick, the 27C010 PCM's need the ROM split in two, the HC11 can't access an address space of 128K so they use bank switching (64K & 64K), makes disassembly a nightmare because the PCM will often switch between banks for various tasks, you need to try to keep track of when that happens.

Cheers,
Ross

Thanks Ross!

Thats the key I was looking for.

See, you do remember......:)

cheers

Mick

[MICK]

Once again, Thanks Ross, you were right on the money.

Attached is a disassembley and bin of a Holden VT V8 HSV File mask id = A6.

I broke it into 2 blocks as you mentioned and all was good.

When I was checking it out in the editor I noticed the stop end code at FFFF and it all fell together.

Cheers

Mick

[GMPX]

Thanks Ross!

Thats the key I was looking for.

See, you do remember......:)

cheers

Mick

Yes, but LDA's and STA's are all a bit foreign now.

Cheers,
Ross

[MICK]

Well, Hummmm, I'm not finished yet,

Does anybody have any info on the memory mapping on these 27c010 chips that they could share with me?

I was having a look around V4 scan tool and seen that in the VR/SV6/8 ALDL definition file there was two things that interested me.

1: ECM ram request (dump memcal).

2: ECM ram request (LTFC values).

I see in the later definitions for the VS and VT, that use the 010 chips are lacking the same sort of support in the definitions.

Firstly I was wondering if it was possible to setup the same type of ECM requests?

I was also interested in the ECM request for LTFT cell data and how this data is displayed in the EFI V4 software?

I went for a test run logging data on a VT V6 and found that the logging session ended at 9998 frames. Is this a limit set into the V4 software?

My last and finial question: Not putting any acid on anybody, Paul mentioned that V4 possibly would be incorporated into the all new V8 software, I was just interested in the time line on this to ascertain weather or not it would be worth pursuing these options?

I know I ask to much..:help2:

Cheers

Mick

[GMPX]

1: ECM ram request (dump memcal).
Here's the problem with that, depending on the time the request was received depends on which bank of ROM dump you get, for dumping out 128K it is useless as you get a mix and match of both banks. From memory it is limited to a 2 byte address, it needs to be 3 (or something like that)


I see in the later definitions for the VS and VT, that use the 010 chips are lacking the same sort of support in the definitions.
I think we moved on to LS1 by then ;)


My last and finial question: Not putting any acid on anybody, Paul mentioned that V4 possibly would be incorporated into the all new V8 software, I was just interested in the time line on this to ascertain weather or not it would be worth pursuing these options?
We were hoping V8 would be in beta by now :eek: , obviously that is not the case so I am not even going to guesstimate a time frame. But yes, V8 will have full ALDL functionality.

Cheers,
Ross