Perfect 9.9 Deg KR anything over 45% tps

[slopokegtp]

I feel like my mind is overflowing these last 2 weeks. I have tried to read (and understand) everything I can about autove tuning and Kr control.
I have what I belive is False Kr with anything over 45% tps.
I just swapped a 04 LS6 into my 02 C5. I am running pretty much straight exhaust (Borla Stingers) with tps headers so it is VERY loud at those rpms.
I am in the process of doing my autove tune but the KR is a real big issue.
Look at this screen shot and the ramp rate. ALL my Kr is exactly like this.
Ideas?
P.S keep in mind this is my first SD tune.
Thanks in advance,:notacrook:
-Chris

[SSpdDmon]

It would probably require a lot of cutting and pasting of tables. But, did you start from an LS6 tune?

[slopokegtp]

Sure did and it sure was alot of cutting and pasting.
The only thing I kept the same was the MAF as I do not have the "Z06" maf.

[GMPX]

Are you able to monitor the Air/Fuel ratios? It 'might' be super lean.
Either that or just pull 10 degrees of timing off the whole mains spark table (just as a test) and see if the knock goes away.

Cheers,
Ross

[joecar]

Your MAP shows about 28 inHg which equals 94 kPa...
Your TP is 50-70% and your RPM is almost steady (drops a bit too)...
So I would say you're under load...
But your commanded AFR is 14.68 which is too lean for load.

You should probably be able to hear that much knock...

What is your measured AFR...?

[SSpdDmon]

Your MAP shows about 28 inHg which equals 94 kPa...
Your TP is 50-70% and your RPM is almost steady (drops a bit too)...
So I would say you're under load...
But your commanded AFR is 14.68 which is too lean for load.

You should probably be able to hear that much knock...

What is your measured AFR...?
Is the MAP sensor functioning correctly????

[slopokegtp]

Well, answering from bottom up yes, the map is moving all over the place so I am hoping it is working. As for the Air fuel, when I hit KR I am at 12.6 every time. I have removed timing and that does nothing. Kind of funny that I only see 9.9kr and never anything less or more. I know my tune is ALL over the place due to the engine swap.
Injector duty cycle at 70tps is 30%. I am scared to punch it with all this KR.
Keep the ideas coming I really appreciate it.
-Chris

[joecar]

Chris, can you hear it knocking...?

Pull the spark plugs and inspect them for signs of pinging
(I don't have to tell you to wait till the heads have cooled down...);
post pics if you can.

What is the condition of the knock sensors...?

[slopokegtp]

I don't think anyone could hear it pinging in my car with my exhaust the way it is :notacrook:.
The knock sensors as well as pretty much everything else in the car less the alternator (litterly) has 30 miles on it.
When I decided to rebuild I bought all new everything.
I will pull the plugs today. I have NGK tr6's in there gapped at .035.
I tried another flash 30 min ago, I upped the PE enrichment from 3k up 5% to 11.9 to 12.1 and still, at the exact same spot every time 9.9kr.
Tps was 70% a/f was 12.2, I mean at this rich expecially being N/A I should have no KR was so ever. I am still believing that my exhaust is causing the issue as it gets VERY raspy at 3k and above. My Ls1 was never like this so I am thinking about welding in resonators before the borlas.
One last thing, I also put a ton of RTV around the Knock sensors (per the tech pub) during the engine build.
Gas is 93 but, when this tank is almost bone dry I am going to get 5 gallons of 110 and run it. If I still have KR then I know it is false.
1 last thing, I pulled 3 degrees of timing across the board and ensured that my good and bad fuel tables are the same and that did nothing as well. 9.9kr on the dot.
Any other suggestions while I go pull the plugs?
Thanks,
-Chris

[Blacky]

Take a look at tables B6204 and B6205. those tables define the maximum knock retard. It would be interesting to see if the values in those tables are the 9.9 limit that you are seeing.

It won't solve any problems but may point to the fact that the PCMis trying to command massively higher retard but is being limited to those tables.

To verify, change the values in those tables to say, 11 or 12 degrees and see if the knock limits to the new values.

Regards
Paul

[Delco]

Well, answering from bottom up yes, the map is moving all over the place so I am hoping it is working. As for the Air fuel, when I hit KR I am at 12.6 every time. I have removed timing and that does nothing. Kind of funny that I only see 9.9kr and never anything less or more. I know my tune is ALL over the place due to the engine swap.
Injector duty cycle at 70tps is 30%. I am scared to punch it with all this KR.
Keep the ideas coming I really appreciate it.
-Chris

Commanded AFR and actual can be very different things , what are you using to measure the actual AFR.

Looks lean from the log , do you have 02 knock sensors or 06 sensors and in what location , can make a huge difference to the tune

[joecar]

Commanded AFR and actual can be very different things , what are you using to measure the actual AFR.

Looks lean from the log , do you have 02 knock sensors or 06 sensors and in what location , can make a huge difference to the tuneGood point: the tune must match the type of knock sensor.

Ditto: what are you using to measure the actual AFR...?

[slopokegtp]

good info.
I am using a lc1 for my tuning. The knock sensors are KNOCK SENSOR KS116 CHEVROLET CORVETTE 1998-2004 from ebay or course. They are in the top like the stock 04 ls6 not on the side like the ls2
I did find in b6205 Knock Retard Limit When in PE Mode (Degrees)
RPM {link: SAE.RPM} Value
0 0.000000
400 5.998535
800 7.998047
1200 9.997559
1600 9.997559
2000 9.997559
2400 9.997559
2800 9.997559
3200 9.997559
3600 9.997559
4000 9.997559
4400 9.997559
4800 9.997559
5200 9.997559
5600 9.997559
6000 9.997559
6400 9.997559
6800 9.997559
7200 9.997559
7600 9.997559
8000 9.997559
Which is telling me every time I go into PE mode I an seeing max KR. Now I am very confused.

[slopokegtp]

Here is a copy of my initial tune. Essentially a z06 file with an a4 tranny (I think)

[SSpdDmon]

...The knock sensors are KNOCK SENSOR KS116 CHEVROLET CORVETTE 1998-2004 from ebay...

I think we've found your problem. ;)

The fact that you're seeing max KR on a supposedly stock tune is just a little too fishy to me.

[joecar]

Some knock sensor diagnostic procedures:
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/dtcs/DTC%20P0325.htm
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/dtcs/DTC%20P0327.htm
http://www.ls2.com/boggs/dtcs/DTC%20P0332.htm

[slopokegtp]

I think we've found your problem. ;)

The fact that you're seeing max KR on a supposedly stock tune is just a little too fishy to me.

Sad but true you may have a point here.
I also have the SI Suite and have already done most of the KR tests and they pass.
One thing that is killing me is that the 04 corvette z06 has a different OS then the 02 so that made it impossible for me to "compare the alternate tune" (I did not know at that time that you can open multiple copies of the tuner at the same time).
After looking at the 04 vs the 02 ls6 there are tons of suttle differences expecially in spark and fuel. I thought the blocks were pretty much identical less the PVC valley which in 04 is changed, is this true?
I know in the v6 world we would have tons of false KR from transmission noise. One of the fixes was to wrap the knock sensor in dynamat. Since the knock sensor "Should" be getting knock from the water jackets wrapping it made do difference in real knock just eliminated false KR.
My question is do you guys was lsX series motors get false KR from open headers, etc?
I pulled the plugs and they are perfect. No cracking, soot, burnt tips etc.

[joecar]

... I pulled the plugs and they are perfect. No cracking, soot, burnt tips etc.I take it there's no signs of spotting on the ceramic.

[slopokegtp]

are you talking about when a piston starts to pop the little spotting of metal on the plug? If so, no there was none. Nice light black, not brown from running lean or jet black from running rich.