LC-1 and FlashScan

[BowlingSS]

Has anyone used an LC-1 WB with FlashScan yet? Has anyone seen a write up on the best way to hook it up. I just got mine today and after looking at the directions I can tell Innovate does not have a very good Tech Writer. I also want to do the SD tuning and already have a program setup to start it as soon as I get it installed.

Thanks,
Bill
:D

[GMPX]

Has anyone used an LC-1 WB with FlashScan yet? Has anyone seen a write up on the best way to hook it up. I just got mine today and after looking at the directions I can tell Innovate does not have a very good Tech Writer. I also want to do the SD tuning and already have a program setup to start it as soon as I get it installed.

Thanks,
Bill
:D

You managed to get one!!, looks like the are B.O'd until mid June :cry:
If the manual comes in a pdf file or something then please forward it onto myself or Paul so we can take a look.

Cheers,
Ross

[BowlingSS]

You managed to get one!!, looks like the are B.O'd until mid June :cry:
If the manual comes in a pdf file or something then please forward it onto myself or Paul so we can take a look.

Cheers,
Ross

They do not send the doc on a pdf, just a hard copy. I can fax it to you on Tueasday if you send me your fax number.

Just checked their web site and they do have a manual on pdf. Here is the link:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/download.php


Bill
:D

[GMPX]

Just checked their web site and they do have a manual on pdf. Here is the link:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/download.php


Bill
:D

The link was just fine, thanks Bill.

Cheers,
Ross

[thegreenmachine79]

I just ordered a flashscan and a LC-1, I would be intrested in seeing any info on this combo.

[BowlingSS]

Any news yet? Do I use the LM-1 PID?

Bill

[Blacky]

According to the PDF document on the LC-1, the factory programmed settings for the second A/D output (the first is a narrow band simulator) is as follows:

less tha 0.5 volts is while the LC-1 is warming up or error condition
0.5V = 7.35 AFR
5.0V = 22.3881 AFR

So the formula you need to use in the calc_pids.txt file is:
AFR = (({EXT.AD1}-0.5)*3.3418)+7.35

If you can confirm that those settings work correctly with your LC-1, then we will add them permanently into EFILive.

To use your LC-1, your calc_pids.txt file should look like this:

# ================================================== ============================
# File details
# ------------
#
# This section defines various details about the file format.

*FILE

#Parameter Value Description
#---------- ---------------- ---------------------------------------------------
VERSION 7.1.1 File version
DECSEP . Decimal separator used in this file

# ================================================== ============================
# Units
# -------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *UNITS section

*UNITS

#Code System Abbr Description
#-------- ---------- -------- --------------------------------------------------

# ================================================== ============================
# Add slot definitions here
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on "SLOT" formats
#
#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- ---------------------------------
*CLC-00-001
V 0.0 5.00 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 18.0 .2 "(({EXT.AD1}-0.5)*3.3418)+7.35"
*CLC-00-002
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC11}/{GM.AFR}"


*CLC-00-003
V 0.0 5.00 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 18.0 .2 "(({EXT.AD2}-0.5)*3.3418)+7.35"
*CLC-00-004
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC12}/{GM.AFR}"

# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ---------------------------------
CALC.AFR_LC11 F001 CLC-00-001 "V,AFR" Fuel "Wide Band AFR 1 - LC-1"
CALC.BEN_Lc11 F002 CLC-00-002 factor Fuel "Base Efficiency Numerator 1 - LC-1"
CALC.AFR_LC12 F003 CLC-00-003 "V,AFR" Fuel "Wide Band AFR 2 - LC-1"
CALC.BEN_LC12 F004 CLC-00-004 factor Fuel "Base Efficiency Numerator 2 - LC-1"

[mistermike]

I've got a pair of LC-1's on the way and the bungs are going in next week. If someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll compare the results to the LogWorks indication.

[ace68]

# ================================================== ============================
# File details
# ------------
#
# This section defines various details about the file format.

*FILE

#Parameter Value Description
#---------- ---------------- ---------------------------------------------------
VERSION 7.1.1 File version
DECSEP . Decimal separator used in this file

# ================================================== ============================
# Units
# -------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *UNITS section

*UNITS

#Code System Abbr Description
#-------- ---------- -------- --------------------------------------------------

# ================================================== ============================
# Add slot definitions here
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on "SLOT" formats
#
#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- ---------------------------------
*CLC-00-001
V 0.0 5.00 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 18.0 .2 "(({EXT.AD1}-0.5)*3.3418)+7.35"
*CLC-00-002
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC11}/{GM.AFR}"


*CLC-00-003
V 0.0 5.00 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 18.0 .2 "(({EXT.AD2}-0.5)*3.3418)+7.35"
*CLC-00-004
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC12}/{GM.AFR}"

# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ---------------------------------
CALC.AFR_LC11 F001 CLC-00-001 "V,AFR" Fuel "Wide Band AFR 1 - LC-1"
CALC.BEN_Lc11 F002 CLC-00-002 factor Fuel "Base Efficiency Numerator 1 - LC-1"
CALC.AFR_LC12 F003 CLC-00-003 "V,AFR" Fuel "Wide Band AFR 2 - LC-1"
CALC.BEN_LC12 F004 CLC-00-004 factor Fuel "Base Efficiency Numerator 2 - LC-1"


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That is what I was looking for I knew the cut and past job I did earlier was wrong.

I will try it tomorrow and let you know how I make out.

[ace68]

WOW! That’s awesome thanks man I just cut and pasted your PID info into the user-pid and bam, info came right up. However, you must use the second analog output from the LC-1 not the first one the correct 0-5 volt rang is on the second output. On my unit it was the green wire to the flashscan neg. connection and the brown LC1-1 out wire to the positive side on the flashscan.

[BowlingSS]

WOW! That’s awesome thanks man I just cut and pasted your PID info into the user-pid and bam, info came right up. However, you must use the second analog output from the LC-1 not the first one the correct 0-5 volt rang is on the second output. On my unit it was the green wire to the flashscan neg. connection and the brown LC1-1 out wire to the positive side on the flashscan.

How did you run your wires to the inside the car? Did you have to drill any holes?
Thanks,
Bill

[ace68]

No I didn't drill any holes, there are three points you can go in from under the car. First you can run the wires under the ac into a rubber plug on the firewall just under the PCM. Second, there is a drain plug in the passenger front seat floorboard. Finnaly, you can run the wires up from the drain plug in the rear passenger seat.
I prefer the plug under the PCM on the firewall I ran the wires with heat shilding tape past the coverter, it's far enough away and wire tied to the body of the car. I like the fact the wires are contained under the pannel under the dash and the LED can be seen from the driver seat.

[BowlingSS]

No I didn't drill any holes, there are three points you can go in from under the car. First you can run the wires under the ac into a rubber plug on the firewall just under the PCM. Second, there is a drain plug in the passenger front seat floorboard. Finnaly, you can run the wires up from the drain plug in the rear passenger seat.
I prefer the plug under the PCM on the firewall I ran the wires with heat shilding tape past the coverter, it's far enough away and wire tied to the body of the car. I like the fact the wires are contained under the pannel under the dash and the LED can be seen from the driver seat.

Thanks for the info. WHERE DID YOU GET THE POWER FROM?

Bill :D :D

[Z16DNA]

This is great guys. My LC-1 arrives in a couple days. You have saved me soooo much time. Thank you,

Kevin

[ace68]

I spliced into a line that I had previously ran for a tire pressure monitoring system I installed, my first mod, it’s a 20 amp line off the Batt. I used a 15 amp fuse on the WB.

[BowlingSS]

Has anyone else used a certain power wire to connect to? I think you want one that only has power when the key is on.

Thanks,
Bill

[BowlingSS]

According to the PDF document on the LC-1, the factory programmed settings for the second A/D output (the first is a narrow band simulator) is as follows:

less tha 0.5 volts is while the LC-1 is warming up or error condition
0.5V = 7.35 AFR
5.0V = 22.3881 AFR

So the formula you need to use in the calc_pids.txt file is:
AFR = (({EXT.AD1}-0.5)*3.3418)+7.35

If you can confirm that those settings work correctly with your LC-1, then we will add them permanently into EFILive.

To use your LC-1, your calc_pids.txt file should look like this:

# ================================================== ============================
# File details
# ------------
#
# This section defines various details about the file format.

*FILE

#Parameter Value Description
#---------- ---------------- ---------------------------------------------------
VERSION 7.1.1 File version
DECSEP . Decimal separator used in this file

# ================================================== ============================
# Units
# -------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *UNITS section

*UNITS

#Code System Abbr Description
#-------- ---------- -------- --------------------------------------------------

# ================================================== ============================
# Add slot definitions here
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on "SLOT" formats
#
#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------------- ------------- ---- ---------------------------------
*CLC-00-001
V 0.0 5.00 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 18.0 .2 "(({EXT.AD1}-0.5)*3.3418)+7.35"
*CLC-00-002
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC11}/{GM.AFR}"


*CLC-00-003
V 0.0 5.00 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 18.0 .2 "(({EXT.AD2}-0.5)*3.3418)+7.35"
*CLC-00-004
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC12}/{GM.AFR}"

# ================================================== ============================
*PRN - Parameter Reference Numbers
# --------------------------------
# See sae_generic.txt for more information on the *PRN section
#
#Code PRN SLOT Units System Description
#------------------------- ---- ------------ ---------------- ---------------- ---------------------------------
CALC.AFR_LC11 F001 CLC-00-001 "V,AFR" Fuel "Wide Band AFR 1 - LC-1"
CALC.BEN_Lc11 F002 CLC-00-002 factor Fuel "Base Efficiency Numerator 1 - LC-1"
CALC.AFR_LC12 F003 CLC-00-003 "V,AFR" Fuel "Wide Band AFR 2 - LC-1"
CALC.BEN_LC12 F004 CLC-00-004 factor Fuel "Base Efficiency Numerator 2 - LC-1"

Is the above still correct for the LC-1? I used the above and it seems to work fine. I would hate to have to do the AutoTune again.
Thanks,
Bill

[mistermike]

Above is incorrect. The LC-1 outputs 0V @ 7.35 AFR not 0.5 V as originally thought.

[BowlingSS]

Above is incorrect. The LC-1 outputs 0V @ 7.35 AFT not 0.5 V as originally thought.

I just found that out. I have the new sae file now.

Thanks,
Bill

[BowlingSS]

It looks like this setting for the LC-1 is in the calc_pids file and the sae_generic file. Do both file have to be the same? Which one does it use first? I can change the calc_pids file but will I need to do the AutoTune over?

Bill

[TAQuickness]

if you were using the wrong calc, you should re-do the autotune.

[BowlingSS]

I brough my wires up through the plug on the drivers side. I then spliced into the pink wire that runs right by the drivers seat. I also used the ground that is right in front left of the drivers seat. I used a 5 amp fuse for the power. I then ran my wires back through the slit in the carpet under the driver seat. If you have a power seat you will see the power connection for the seat. I connected my FlashScan under the seat and brought the USB connection to the pass seat to connect to my notebook. It works OK right now. I might try to run the wires into the dash later.

Bill

[SSpdDmon]

I brough my wires up through the plug on the drivers side. I then spliced into the pink wire that runs right by the drivers seat. I also used the ground that is right in front left of the drivers seat. I used a 5 amp fuse for the power. I then ran my wires back through the slit in the carpet under the driver seat. If you have a power seat you will see the power connection for the seat. I connected my FlashScan under the seat and brought the USB connection to the pass seat to connect to my notebook. It works OK right now. I might try to run the wires into the dash later.

Bill

But, isn't that a full-time power source if you tap into the power seat? I was under the impression you need a "switched" 12v source that only works with the key in the run position. Otherwise, your O2 heater is constantly powered, which can affect the life of the sensor and may drain your battery faster. Am I off on this one?

[joecar]

I brough my wires up through the plug on the drivers side. I then spliced into the pink wire that runs right by the drivers seat. I also used the ground that is right in front left of the drivers seat. I used a 5 amp fuse for the power. I then ran my wires back through the slit in the carpet under the driver seat. If you have a power seat you will see the power connection for the seat. I connected my FlashScan under the seat and brought the USB connection to the pass seat to connect to my notebook. It works OK right now. I might try to run the wires into the dash later.

Bill

But, isn't that a full-time power source if you tap into the power seat? I was under the impression you need a "switched" 12v source that only works with the key in the run position. Otherwise, your O2 heater is constantly powered, which can affect the life of the sensor and may drain your battery faster. Am I off on this one?

SSpdDmon is correct -> battery'll drain overnite unless your 02S heater source is switched.

[BowlingSS]

I brough my wires up through the plug on the drivers side. I then spliced into the pink wire that runs right by the drivers seat. I also used the ground that is right in front left of the drivers seat. I used a 5 amp fuse for the power. I then ran my wires back through the slit in the carpet under the driver seat. If you have a power seat you will see the power connection for the seat. I connected my FlashScan under the seat and brought the USB connection to the pass seat to connect to my notebook. It works OK right now. I might try to run the wires into the dash later.

Bill

But, isn't that a full-time power source if you tap into the power seat? I was under the impression you need a "switched" 12v source that only works with the key in the run position. Otherwise, your O2 heater is constantly powered, which can affect the life of the sensor and may drain your battery faster. Am I off on this one?

The wire I used was switched. I did not use the power seat power wire. The wire I used was in the wiring harness that went by the seat.

Bill

[TAQuickness]

you can also use the wiring harness off an old O2 sensor, plug it in to the rear O2 connector, and use the switched 12VDC power from there.

HOWEVER, do not use the ground from that location - Only the power!

[SSpdDmon]

you can also use the wiring harness off an old O2 sensor, plug it in to the rear O2 connector, and use the switched 12VDC power from there.

HOWEVER, do not use the ground from that location - Only the power!

Why not? It goes to a central ground...the same one all four NBO2's go to. To date, I haven't had issues with it. Should I be concerned??

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/392000-392999/392531_120_full.jpg

[TAQuickness]

you can also use the wiring harness off an old O2 sensor, plug it in to the rear O2 connector, and use the switched 12VDC power from there.

HOWEVER, do not use the ground from that location - Only the power!

Why not? It goes to a central ground...the same one all four NBO2's go to. To date, I haven't had issues with it. Should I be concerned??

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/392000-392999/392531_120_full.jpg

If your's is working, I'd say that's AWESOME... My LC1 didn't care for it. Once I the white and blue wire tied to chassis ground, everything fell into place.

[Chunx]

If your's is working, I'd say that's AWESOME... My LC1 didn't care for it. Once I the white and blue wire tied to chassis ground, everything fell into place.Thank you for the ground idea.
I thought I had a bad sensor, had tried heater cal and free air several times.
Could not get a solid glow from the led.
It would set a 2 or 4 error, and sometimes it would blink very erratic

I then read all the LC-1 stuff on here, found this thread.
unplugged the ground from the narrowband heater ground
hooked it to a glovebox screw for a quick check
and BAM, blinking for warm-up then solid

thanks alot for your post

[WicketMike]

Above is incorrect. The LC-1 outputs 0V @ 7.35 AFR not 0.5 V as originally thought.


What are the correct numbers to put in the sae_generic file?

i searched and im finding different results

Is it 0v-5v and 10-18afr or 7.35-18afr? or something different and is the calculation still -5}*3.3418)+7.35 ?

thanks

[SSbaby]

The latest LC-1 manual describes the outputs as follows:


As factory programmed the first output simulates a typical narrow band oxygen sensor. The second output is programmed to output between 0 V for an AFR of 7.35 (gasoline) and 5.0V for an AFR of 22.39. Other curves of course are easily programmable

Therefore, based on the above statement, I end up with the following new formula...

AFR = (({EXT.AD1})*3.008 )+7.35

***Note: 3.008 is derived by obtaining the gradient: (22.39 - 7.35)/(5 - 0) = 3.008 ***

[Black02SS]

I get the exact same as you for a formula using
0=7.35
5=22.39

[SSbaby]

I get the exact same as you for a formula using
0=7.35
5=22.39

It's all rather belated... the sae_generic.txt file in the latest version of FS already uses the correct settings...


# Innovate LC-1 WBO2
# ========================
*CLC-00-932
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .2 "({EXT.AD1}*3)+7.35"
*CLC-00-933
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LC11.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"

*CLC-00-934
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .2 "({EXT.AD2}*3)+7.35"
*CLC-00-935

[mtnman]

so will


The second output is programmed to output between 0 V for an AFR of 7.35 (gasoline) and 5.0V for an AFR of 22.39

So will setting the LC-1 values to those above using the LM1 programmer, be correct for EFI Live (WB02 and EFILive calibrated)? :bash: