Idle timing tables

[1000HP]

:help2: I need a few more idle timing tables. In gear and out of gear changes idle timng. We already have one of the tables which is in neutral or park now all I need is the table that controls idle timing under 1 mph in gear. I think there is one for the pilot too. Not for sure yet.

[killerbee]

Agreed. I have tried to address this with Ross, to eliminate surging/leaping. Maybe now we can finally fix this.

[GMPX]

Without going back over all my LLY stuff, is B0942 - B0944 only functional in P/N?

Cheers,
Ross

[killerbee]

here is an email I sent way back.

"...Now I am finding that idle timing appears to be fixed. I cannot change it. It appears to be independent of B0910 and B0944.

I finally went and loaded the old stock tun, and I got the same idle timing as all the rest of my attempts (to change it), 2 degrees BTDC (140 F ECT)

Is there perhaps some dependency/trigger I am missing, or that was overlooked? I think it possible to quiet the truck with some retard, but no luck changing it, ...."

It seems to be when you put the truck in gear, neither table is valid. -3 or -4 degrees, until put in gear. Then goes to +2. The advance creates added noise, perhaps the timing change is load related.

[1000HP]

Without going back over all my LLY stuff, is B0942 - B0944 only functional in P/N?

Cheers,
Ross
Yes,
main injection pulse idle timing b0944 and pilot injection idle timing b0937 both only function in neutral or park. There are three tables I need for both pilot and main injection pulses. We have the ones that function in park and neutral (bo944), (b0937) and we also have the ones that function above 2kmh main injection timing C (b0910) and injection timing after pilot d (b0929).

If i could have the timing tables that come into play in gear stopped or under 2 kmh it would help so much. I want to see lower egts in stop and go traffic conditions and this would help tremendously. The more I play with these 10 hole nozzles, the more I wish I would have stuck with a 7 hole.

Thanks Ross.

[Lennart]

I checked just a few minutes ago.....mine does not seem to miss any tables.
Are you sure you are not getting the difference in timing from the higher injection quantity?

[1000HP]

Yes, I am sure!

[GMPX]

I had another look today and nothing really stands out :frown: , but, it still smells of gasoline inthe office right now.....the smell of Diesel should return soon enough and I'll take a REALLY hard look for this infamous timing table.

Cheers,
Ross

[1000HP]

I am positive that these tables are there. If you want I can send some logs going from park to drive stopped and then to drive rolling.

Thanks for taking a look at it Ross!

[Lennart]

I did some siginificant changes to my idle timing table and as soon as you shift into gear the timing is defined by a different table. Need to do further adjustments to the main timing table to see whether that table is used or not.

[1000HP]

I am glad I'm not the only person who noticed it.

[Chalky]

This will not look good on a resume!

[1000HP]

This will not look good on a resume!
???

[Chalky]

???

Joke!

[killerbee]

I have noticed this for some time. Whenever I would hit a drivethru, I would shift into park to quiet the motor down so I could hear the speaker better.

After logging it, most apparent was the timing advance of shifting to drive, making her more noisy. So perhaps it is a load timing adjustment table (guess) that is missing.

[1000HP]

Any news yet?

[GMPX]

No, it will be after SEMA, I recently got inspired to revisit LB7/LLY so I'll get to it after that.

Cheers,
Ross

[1000HP]

Thanks Ross!

[Lennart]

Ross,

this will be extremely helpful as the fuel I am currently burning does not like to burn as nice with the -3° timing I get when in gear at idle.

[1000HP]

Ross,

Any update on these parameters? Thanks.

[GMPX]

I did make quite a number of additions to the LB7 / LLY tables (as promised) after SEMA. However there is something odd going on with the LB7 / LLY cals at the moment that I have not been able to figure out.
The problem is the 3D tables are showing up as 2D only, it's only affecting some users and some OS's though.
I'm away at the moment (I'll be back on Monday), I'll post up the cals in here for you all to try, you might be lucky and everything will look fine.

Cheers,
Ross

[1000HP]

Thanks Ross!

[GMPX]

It's only been a year in the making :rolleyes:

[Cougar281]

How close to release are the beta cals for the 5sp Allison TCM? Are you planning on posting them up when you get back too?

[1000HP]

Any files ready for us yet Ross?

[GMPX]

See here -
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=7097

However, I have not found the specific P/N to Gear idle tables (if there is some). I think what it is might be the commanded fuel rate is causing the problem. Eg, too much difference between P/N and In Gear therefore the commanded mm3 used in the timing lookups varies greatly.

Cheers,
Ross

[Lennart]

See here -
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=7097

However, I have not found the specific P/N to Gear idle tables (if there is some). I think what it is might be the commanded fuel rate is causing the problem. Eg, too much difference between P/N and In Gear therefore the commanded mm3 used in the timing lookups varies greatly.

Cheers,
Ross

Ross,

this is very unlikely as I get a timing that is nowhere near any number in the entire timing table. Timing drops to e.g. -5° and all table values are positive. I can send you a tune and a log file if you like.

Lennart

[killerbee]

x2,

the -5.1 (warm) seems to be prevalent. It is higher (and noisier) when cold IIRC.

One thing that changes when changing gears from P, to D....is LOAD.


Ross did you get my unrelated email a week ago? Sent a copy to Paul.

[GMPX]

Lennart, a log would be great thanks.
Killerbee, I don't recall getting anything (or being forwarded anything from Paul). Mind you, I have my spam filter turned up way high now, it might have got junked.

Cheers,
Ross

[Lennart]

It might be possible that we are not looking for a big table, so far the typical numbers from 0°C to 62°C are 8.0 or 9.0 deg and then from 71°C up -4.0 or -5.0 deg.
Not sure where the exact temp is when it switches from high to low.
Will hook up a pot and simulate ECT while the truck is in drive to get the full scale to you.

[killerbee]

..., so far the typical numbers from 0°C to 62°C are 8.0 or 9.0 deg ...


I have not seen anything that high...strange

[Lennart]

Could be due to the fact that my injection quantity especially when cold is a lot higher than it would be on #2!
Right after startup I see up to 70mm² just to maintain idle!!
Even need to adjust several limiting tables just to get the engine to rev !

[killerbee]

hmmm, ok. That sounds like an interesting tune!

[GMPX]

Lennart, make your bio-diesel from Taco bell left overs, not left over oil from Gedadschde.

Cheers,
Ross

[Lennart]

Lennart, make your bio-diesel from Taco bell left overs, not left over oil from Gedadschde.

Cheers,
Ross
I am not running BioDiesel, I am running canola oil AS IT IS!
I go straight from step 1 to step 14.

Here is the BioDiesel Process:

http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/howitsmade/images/Making_Biodiesel.gif

[stacks04]

hey guys just for another with timing, i am having a low stop/brake apply, to brake off barely rolling stumble, it is tune related but i have been monitoring timing at idle and once warm always have -5 main timing. no where in my tables can i find why this is. my main inj timing is set for -3.2 at that range but still i see -5. not sure why. but i have to do the same thing at a drive thru.

[1000HP]

hey guys just for another with timing, i am having a low stop/brake apply, to brake off barely rolling stumble, it is tune related but i have been monitoring timing at idle and once warm always have -5 main timing. no where in my tables can i find why this is. my main inj timing is set for -3.2 at that range but still i see -5. not sure why. but i have to do the same thing at a drive thru. I touched on this in my first post. Ross has found one of the tables (B0950) Not sure What this one controls yet nothing affected in my logs by this table yet. Here is the breakdown of what I have figured out.

B0908, B909, B910, B0926-B0929, in factory form are all used above 3.13%TPS(B0938), 1MPH(B0939), 975RPM(B0940). B0938-B0940 are the change over points that control what tables are used when the truck is in gear, rolling or stopped. We still need the tables that control timing for pilot and main in gear stopped which are controlled or switched over by B0938-B0940. B0942-B0944 Control timing in P/N. I think B0950 Is a start up table for lower engine operating temps.

Hope this helps Ross.

Thanks

[Lennart]

I have played with B0590 in hopes it would be "the" table but so far I have not been able to find its use either.

[1000HP]

Lennart,

If you want to have total control temorarily until we find another solution, you can fill in the value 0 for B0938-B0940. Then you only have to adjust absolute timing values from B0908, B909, B910, B0926-B0929 and B0942-B0944. This works. I have been runing this patch tuning for a while.

[lakingslayer]

I haven't seen any resolution posts on this -5deg idle timing. Does anyone have a clue? Looks like it is based on temperature going from a positive number of around 4.0 to 5.0 deg at 87 deg F at startup to the negative number when above the mid 160degF range and only in gear.

[killerbee]

Never did crack this one. :)

[KB3MMX]

Never did crack this one. :)

Any updates since May last year?

[killerbee]

Nope.