autove OLSD good CLSD iffy

[stigmundfreud]

Hi guys

I've been doing my ve table over the past week or so and have got it almost as good as I can with my driving conditions. most cells are 1.00+/- 1 or 2 but a few are 1.07 etc.

Commanded seems close to actual AFR and my logged PE table shows close to commanded (13.1 in PE).

To test it all out I updated the original and got close loop working fine, as in it works switching from OL to CL. However the car is running leaner than in OLSD. The LTFT on both banks seem to be around -10 to -12, STFT all seem between 2 to 5.

Looking at the LC-1 Wideband average AFR map on the OLSD shows most are hovering around 14 for example so running a bit rich (so need more work dialing it in) but using the exact same VE table in CLSD the map shows a lot of cells at 16 = too lean.

My question is can I use the BENs from the closed loop logs to adjust the VE or do I need to return to OLSD to tune the VE table then transfer it back or should I run a while longer to let the ltft to settle down (did an 80 mile run).

In short to get Closed loop working efficiently do I need to tune in Open loop then revert back to closed once I feel my VE table is sorted - or can I modify the VE table after logging in closed loop?

Cheers

[stigmundfreud]

figured my problem out - would delete thread but can't!

[SSpdDmon]

What was it?


Side note about closed loop: The EVAP system will kick on after a fill-up at the pump to normalize the pressure in the fuel tank. Those vapors may swing your fuel trims -10%. Don't tune in closed loop right after a fill-up. ;)

[joecar]

Ditto, what was it...?

[stigmundfreud]

EVAP not sure if its fitted to our models? (UK 04 Monaro)

The issue I think was I had accidentally, due to tiredness, pasted in the ben updates 2 or 3 times to teh VE. So it would be way off as is. Reverted back to OLSD with the last known good tune to the mix up = running much better. Will do more logging in this then try CL again

[joecar]

EVAP not sure if its fitted to our models? (UK 04 Monaro)

The issue I think was I had accidentally, due to tiredness, pasted in the ben updates 2 or 3 times to teh VE. So it would be way off as is. Reverted back to OLSD with the last known good tune to the mix up = running much better. Will do more logging in this then try CL againIf you see a solenoid adjacent to left-side fuel rail with a plastic tube leading to front of intake manifold, then that's it.

[Zfreak]

I just had this happen to me last night! I filled up and all of sudden my logs were all screwy. I assumed it had something to do with the charcoal purge (evap) system so I didn't mess with the tune at all. Sure enough trims are better today.

[stigmundfreud]

I think my problems were not correctly dialed in VE. I've done some more logs and VE updates and now all looks settled nicely I'll try CL but this time give it a while longer to check the trims. If the commanded != close to the actual then I'll go back to tuning it some more.

[stigmundfreud]

ok guys to confuse things....

I did get everything working in OLSD but as soon as I go to CLSD or CLMAF I have problems.

In OLSD the commanded matches the actual AFR

In CLSD/CLMAF the commanded is about 2 below the AFR. EG 14.43 Commanded = 16 actual AFR

What could be causing this? I have tried to use the b5001 map to adjust the B5001 table but this seems to have no real effect - although saying that I could try lowering the b0120 point to 1900.

I have a feeling it is the STFT and LTFT that is causing it as under 4000rpm it should be using the VE table which works in OLSD with both LTFT and STFT turned off

Ultimately I want to use my NB's and my MAF. Not looking for the ultimate power tune but I do want the best possible tune whilst using these

[Doc]

Have you rescaled the MAF yet? I mean, you got OLSD spot on, I didn't see if you said you dialed in the MAF in OL? Sorry, if you did. Just checking before diving into Davy Jones locker.

;)

[stigmundfreud]

Hmm nope I didn't! I tuned SDOL and had the maf unplugged. Now I got SDOL dialed in I enabled STFT and LTFT and plugged the maf back in.

Currently I'm running CLMAF but with DFCO turned off - obviously STFT and LTFT are on. I have been mapping 5001 BENs and done one rescale so far and it has helped. I presume I should revert back to running with no STFT or LTFT, diable CL and just dial the MAF in as I did with the VE table?

Or is it ok to do it with STFT/LTFT and CL?

Cheers doc

[stigmundfreud]

ah Doc I think if I read you right I should go back to OL but let the MAF run?

I've gone back to my OLSD tune and just enabled the MAF - will map that now

[joecar]

Yes, Doc is saying to run OLMAF (OLSD + MAF) and now scale your MAF using B5001 BEN map...

Similar to the AutoVE tune process for dialing in the VE table, dialing in the MAF table requires OL.

I would also set B0120 to 400 RPM.

[stigmundfreud]

cheers Joe,

had seen about b0120 so will do that, I presume I can return it back to 4000 once done?

Another question... MAF doesnt kick in until 4000rpm? So why is it that as soon as it is connected the VE Bens go to about 1.15 (obviously tuning the MAF should sort that) but how/why does hte maf effect things if it isnt supposed to kick in until 4000rpm?

cheers

[joecar]

cheers Joe,

had seen about b0120 so will do that, I presume I can return it back to 4000 once done?

Another question... MAF doesnt kick in until 4000rpm? So why is it that as soon as it is connected the VE Bens go to about 1.15 (obviously tuning the MAF should sort that) but how/why does hte maf effect things if it isnt supposed to kick in until 4000rpm?

cheers Cheers Mike... :)

Yes, once you're happy with the MAF table, you can return B0120 back to 4K.

When does the MAF kick in:
- Below B0120: combination of MAF table (steady state) and/or VE table (transition).
- Above B0120: MAF table.

EDIT: corrected.

So in the BEN map be sure to filter out throttle transitions.


Edit: as Doc reminded us, be sure to do this in OL. :cheers:

[Doc]

Yes, that's the ticket! Just make sure no pesky Fuel Trims are lurking about.

[stigmundfreud]

well thanks to you guys I now have the MAF tuned and the B5001 map and the other maps show bens (with maf) to 1.00 or 0.99 through all the range

What I have noticed though is on start up it commands 12.x then 13.x for quite a while before commanding 14.63 - is that normal

Cheers anyway, now its time to enable DFCO and see what happens then maybe lean cruise.....

[shallow bay]

What I have noticed though is on start up it commands 12.x then 13.x for quite a while before commanding 14.63 - is that normal
That's perfectly normal for cold starts. It's the transition from running in open loop (B3605) to closed loop.

[stigmundfreud]

not got closed loop enabled but it seems to now be better with the maf scaled in

With regards to MAF scaling,I've done a few high speed runs but living where I do the main runway is often patrolled so only hit 120 leptons so far. I never seem to get above 9500 on the b5001 map so my scale drops off to standard after that point.

If say the car was going 170leptons would the Maf frequency get any higher with the increase in incoming air - or due to the nature of the air box only coping with a set amount will I in all likelyness never get about 9500 on that map?

Here is my tune to show the b5001 as mentioned: http://www.stigmundfreud.f2s.com/tuning/olmaf.tun

cheers