Has Ross forgotten us Diesel guys?

[GMPX]

Hi All,

Ok, so we've been a little absent from Diesel development for the last 4 or 5 months I guess. But, not because I was holidaying in the sun, no, no, been stuck in front of the keyboard as per usual, only, catching up on the gasser ECM development. Ok so most of you Diesel guys don't care about that, but, it's been fun (for me) and we've been able to come out with some revolutionary enhancements for the 2006+ gasser tuners that are using the E38 & E67 ECM's.

So, back to what is happening with the Diesels.
First up is to revisit the calibrations for all the Duramax's. The LB7 & LLY's already have a bunch of items to play around with but there is a couple of things that we do need to add in based on customer requests. So, at some point a new calibration set will be released for the LB7 & LLY.
We also have a new custom OS just for the LLY's that I actually started to work on last year the same time as DSP5 but it kind of got pushed aside (even though I really enjoy coding custom OS's). We will be looking for a few testers for that in about a month or maybe less so keep your eyes open, I have to do some preliminary testing here first.

Then on to the LBZ / LMM Bosch ECM :Eyecrazy: (the lovely thing it is ;) )
We had planned on doing a major update to the LBZ & LMM cals once the gasser development was toning down (which it will in a couple of weeks time I'd say). I just can't work on gas and Diesel at the same time, it's too confusing switching your brain from Bosch Diesel ECM's to Delphi gas ECM's and back. I always tell my wife, I can't do two things at once, you know how could I possibly watch TV and do the dishes?
It doesn't seem like it to me but we released the LBZ tuning 7 or 8 months ago so it is well overdue for an update regardless. Plus of course GM just released a new LMM OS for the 2008 models, so, I was going to be revisiting the LMM cals shortly anyway.
So fingers crossed we can get some updates out before the racing season is over....

I know Paul is working almost 24/7 on V2 firmware too so he tells me the standalone features can't be too much further away.

Cheers,
Ross

[jay p]

LBZ...

How about control of the intake heater. I don't want to kill it (nice in the winter), only change the temp when they turn on & off.

[GMPX]

Don't worry, I have a big list of customer requests to add in! That will be one of them.

Cheers,
Ross

[ntae]

If you see the fuel gauge cal it would be nice as well

[jimter]

Ooh!! Ooh!! :wave: while we are begging for add-ons! LB7 cruse control loop parameters and the rest of the PTO parameters and in the custom OS area a DSP VPW output that’s based on fuel rate and MAP for a really cool home brewed proportional nitrous oxide setup! And while your at it Father Christmas I want a pony and a new red bicycle! Cause I’ve been a really good boy this year I promise I have!:master:

[JoshH]

That's really good news, Ross. Do you think you will be able to figure out the LBZ RPM issues while you're in there? When you're working on the LBZ can you figure out why tables B1115 and B1116 don't seem to do anything for me?

[IdahoRob]

Ross, if not on the list, I'd sure like to see tap resetting for the 6 speed allison. Might as well as ask for full tcm flashing also, oh yeah, how about a dsp for LBZ, and.....

Thanks, these LBZ's rip thanks to you guys. Worse case is that'd I'd be happy with what is already available. Any thing else is gravy.

[Extinct]

Just to add my two cents, I feel like deciphering the boost/vvt table algorithim needs to be close to the top of the list so we can understand what the feedback control flow looks like.

thanks

tim

[lakingslayer]

What kind of new goodies will be in the LLY custom OS?

[Cobra#3747]

Oh no no no... Torque reduction tables and rpm on the LBZ

You Lilly guys already got enough for now.

[Extinct]

Just to add my two cents, I feel like deciphering the boost/vvt table algorithim needs to be close to the top of the list so we can understand what the feedback control flow looks like.

thanks

tim

Yeah, I was referring to the LBZ as well.

[duramaximizer]

LB7 wise, I really want the DSP side of the tuning to have a max injected fuel quanity vs speed. So power and fuel mileage could go together better. I hate the low fuel slow speed but at cruise it would be nice to lean it out.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

LB7 wise, I really want the DSP side of the tuning to have a max injected fuel quanity vs speed. So power and fuel mileage could go together better. I hate the low fuel slow speed but at cruise it would be nice to lean it out.

That won't do anything, you need to change the main injection pulse table, that is what directs the ecm to fuel "X" amount of fuel for a given TPS%.

:D

[duramaximizer]

So, you are saying the max injected fuel quantity vs speed actually does nothing for the tune as per the steve cole vs efi live thread? That seems to be the logical thing for a high hp tune on the bottom but better economy even with the 0 fuel at 0 throttle untill idle.

BTW the abilty to get over 120 mm per fuel would be nice....right now, the only way to get more fuel than 120 is to defuel .....at which case I can get whatever I command. So my defuel actually adds fuel so to speak. Go figure.

[bobo]

So, you are saying the max injected fuel quantity vs speed actually does nothing for the tune as per the steve cole vs efi live thread? That seems to be the logical thing for a high hp tune on the bottom but better economy even with the 0 fuel at 0 throttle untill idle.

BTW the abilty to get over 120 mm per fuel would be nice....right now, the only way to get more fuel than 120 is to defuel .....at which case I can get whatever I command. So my defuel actually adds fuel so to speak. Go figure.



Ummmmmmmm...you got problems!!!:Eyecrazy:

[Trippin]

So, you are saying the max injected fuel quantity vs speed actually does nothing for the tune as per the steve cole vs efi live thread?

As a test, set every value in your max injected fuel quantity vs speed table to 20mm3. Take her for a drive and let me know your opinion of Steve's theory.

[LBZ]

Whoa way off topic guys.

Any idea of the ETA of the diesel updates?

Getting ansey here!! I need DSP!!

[Extinct]

Whoa way off topic guys.

Any idea of the ETA of the diesel updates?

Getting ansey here!! I need DSP!!

I don't really understand why so many people want DSP. Not trying to start a flame thread, I really don't understand.

With the power of Live, shouldn't we be able to tune it for a variety of power levels based on the degree of throttle opening ? Economy at low throttle opening's, max power at WOT ?

Thanks

Tim

[floriduramax1]

I don't really understand why so many people want DSP. Not trying to start a flame thread, I really don't understand.

With the power of Live, shouldn't we be able to tune it for a variety of power levels based on the degree of throttle opening ? Economy at low throttle opening's, max power at WOT ?

Thanks

Tim
How heavy do you tow? Try taking off from a red light with 16000# with a high horse tune and equalizer bars set right and beat the light! You wind up pressing too hard on the accelerator and just lighting the tires up:D . Also when wifey drives,no offense Kat we all don't have "High Horse Power Queen Drivers", its time to detune:muahaha: I could go on... it would just be so nice to have.

Also I havn't figured out how to "step" the power level from mild to wild without "flaring".

[LBZ]

I don't really understand why so many people want DSP. Not trying to start a flame thread, I really don't understand.

With the power of Live, shouldn't we be able to tune it for a variety of power levels based on the degree of throttle opening ? Economy at low throttle opening's, max power at WOT ?

Thanks

Tim

Well like floriduramax1 said, sometimes other people are in our trucks that really shouldn't have that power.;)

You can tune for your TPS, but sometimes it's touchy and tough to judge-especially when towing!! EGT's may go through the roof when you tow but be fine when your not!!

I had DSP2 in my 05 and loved it.
If anyone hasn't got it yet, they need to it's worth it IMO!!
I'm also not up for flashing everytime I need to switch from tow to race!!

[Cobra#3747]

The DSP is nice because generally a race tune/play tune is going to fuel differently than a tow program or a daily driver program. So because I cant resist power, my daily driver program is my race program and my rear tires are really not taking it to well :D

[duramaximizer]

As a test, set every value in your max injected fuel quantity vs speed table to 20mm3. Take her for a drive and let me know your opinion of Steve's theory.


Okay.............:frown: now what. :help2: :nixweiss:

[GMPX]

The LBZ/LMM offers some real technical difficulties on trying to implement any form of switching tune, and it is mainly to do with how the tables are accessed from the code as the ECM is getting table locations. It's done very differently to the LB7/LLY and is the root cause of the problem.
I am never going to rule out that it can't be done, but based on the Emails we get I am under the impression I must have said that we were actively working on it?

Cheers,
Ross

[floriduramax1]

The LBZ/LMM offers some real technical difficulties on trying to implement any form of switching tune, and it is mainly to do with how the tables are accessed from the code as the ECM is getting table locations. It's done very differently to the LB7/LLY and is the root cause of the problem.
I am never going to rule out that it can't be done, but based on the Emails we get I am under the impression I must have said that we were actively working on it?

Cheers,
Ross
No offense, but, Bully dog has been changing on the fly since the begining. They are using some sort of digital marker. I know you guys are smarter than they are and I am certain you will get it. It will make our everyday life so much nicer. I said it once and I will say it again, I will be the first to donate and start a group to donate$$$ to get some motivation for our DSP.

[JoshH]

Personally, I would rather have more RPM, control over defuel and more transmission controlls than DSP.

[LBZ]

The LBZ/LMM offers some real technical difficulties on trying to implement any form of switching tune, and it is mainly to do with how the tables are accessed from the code as the ECM is getting table locations. It's done very differently to the LB7/LLY and is the root cause of the problem.
I am never going to rule out that it can't be done, but based on the Emails we get I am under the impression I must have said that we were actively working on it?

Cheers,
Ross

I don't believe you did say you were going to Ross.

We are just making a wish list and sending several letters to Santa in hope's he may get the elves to make a few extra toys for us LBZ and LMM folks!! :D

[Leadfoot]

As much as I would love a switchable tune for my LBZ. Being able to fuel past 3600 and the ability to reset tranny taps and lock a gear are much higher on the list.

Thanks for all the work you have done so far and continue to do.

[Boost]

Ross, if not on the list, I'd sure like to see tap resetting for the 6 speed allison. Might as well as ask for full tcm flashing also, oh yeah, how about a dsp for LBZ, and.....

Thanks, these LBZ's rip thanks to you guys. Worse case is that'd I'd be happy with what is already available. Any thing else is gravy.

+1
Agreed

[GMPX]

No offense, but, Bully dog has been changing on the fly since the begining. They are using some sort of digital marker. I know you guys are smarter than they are and I am certain you will get it. It will make our everyday life so much nicer.

I was not aware they did that. I saw the Triple Dog product on the web site after reading this, switching tunes for FORD, Dodge and GM....well, hats off to those guys, from a technical standpoint that is commendable.
What I am not sure about is if they are actually switching to new tables in the ECM or just using bi-di commands to alter things.

Cheers,
Ross

[Trippin]

The Bully Dog Outlook Monitor is plugging into the engine bale connector. Me thinks this would indicate that it is working more like an Edge box than a true "table switching" program.

:wave:

[GMPX]

No, I am talking about the Triple Dog.

Cheers,
Ross

[JoshH]

Well, I don't know how it works exactly. All I know is when you first load it in your ECM it takes a while to finish, but once it's loaded you just plug it into the OBD II port and switch tunes with the handheld tuner. It's really pretty slick how it works. Plug in the handheld, select the tune you want, press enter and unplug and put away, all while driving down the road.

Any idea when the next update is coming out? Still the end of the month?

[Trippin]

Well, I don't know how it works exactly. All I know is when you first load it in your ECM it takes a while to finish, but once it's loaded you just plug it into the OBD II port and switch tunes with the handheld tuner. It's really pretty slick how it works. Plug in the handheld, select the tune you want, press enter and unplug and put away, all while driving down the road.

Any idea when the next update is coming out? Still the end of the month?

On an LBZ?

[floriduramax1]

On an LBZ?
Yes. That was my first programmer. And trust me, They are changing tables. You get a message "The calibration contains 1 or more incorrect segment checksums".

[duramaximizer]

come on ross and paul, check this out. lets go!!!! I have LBZ guy jumping on this. Think diesel..............diesel diesel diesel diesel diesel diesel .... the diesel guys want some cool stuff. diesel diesel diesel diesel. LOL

[GMPX]

Yeah, I know, I am outta here on the 23rd bound for SEMA, it has to be done by then!

Cheers,
Ross

[duramaximizer]

hope you haven't been working round the clock. you can send me a beta version if you wish LOL.

[carcrafter22]

so is a new update supposed to be out today?

[Jasondt2001]

so is a new update supposed to be out today?
It doesnt look like it made it unfortunately. It's 10:54 AM on October 24th in Australia as i'm typing his.

[kbracing96]

I think you guys miss understood, Ross said he would have HIS update done before HE left for SEMA. He said he would be giving it to Paul who isn't leaving for a few days, to wrap up with the rest of the update and posted in the next couple of days, before HE goes to SEMA.

[carcrafter22]

oh! well then yes I misunderstood. I really had my hopes up for a new update. I actually sold my ppe programmer thinking I was going to have standalone today. I guess I was mistaken again. hmmm......

[Jasondt2001]

don't feel bad, i was under the same impression I'd wake up this morning with a update ready to download... I'm with ya man, I was really looking forward to checking out whatever these 'mystery' tables for the LBZ there are.

[Jasondt2001]

I think you guys miss understood, Ross said he would have HIS update done before HE left for SEMA. He said he would be giving it to Paul who isn't leaving for a few days, to wrap up with the rest of the update and posted in the next couple of days, before HE goes to SEMA.
Well heck, I was way mistaken.

Thanks alot KB for replying and setting me straight, i get all these names mixed up still... LOL
At least now there's still a good chance of us getting a update again!!!:muahaha: :muahaha: :cheers: :cheers: :master: :master:

[Extinct]

How heavy do you tow? Try taking off from a red light with 16000# with a high horse tune and equalizer bars set right and beat the light! You wind up pressing too hard on the accelerator and just lighting the tires up:D . Also when wifey drives,no offense Kat we all don't have "High Horse Power Queen Drivers", its time to detune:muahaha: I could go on... it would just be so nice to have.

Also I havn't figured out how to "step" the power level from mild to wild without "flaring".

Thanks for the explanation, I understand now.

[Extinct]

Now, back to the subject at hand. Has anyone figured out the algorithim for the boost/VVT tables on the LBZ ? IMHO that needs to be among the top prioriites on the list.

[carcrafter22]

So am I correct in assuming there will be no updates whatsoever until after sema?

[Jasondt2001]

I believe so. Mid November more than likely. I'd love to have to have the black box logging but I'd much rather peak at these 'secret' tables a few have ;)

[Cobra#3747]

Now, back to the subject at hand. Has anyone figured out the algorithim for the boost/VVT tables on the LBZ ? IMHO that needs to be among the top prioriites on the list.


So what would be gained by knowing the algorithm?

[JoshH]

Yeah, I don't understand what the problem is. Are you having trouble getting the boost you want?

[Extinct]

So what would be gained by knowing the algorithm?

I've not actually started changing anything with respect to boost, really I have just been researching the subject by looking at the tables and paying attention to others post and discussion. However, from what I have been able to discern thus far, I don't understand how the boost tables and the VVT position tables interact.

The question at hand is how did the programmer program the closed loop feedback control on reaching target boost in the table. We know the vvt position has a major impact on boost level, so it would seem to make sense if they had only put in a boost table (independent variable) and had the feedback control adjust the VVT position (dependent variable) to reach the boost target. As it is we seem to have too many controls. We could set a boost target and a VVT target and have them pulling against each other, we just don't know how they interact mathematically.

Years ago someone finally figured out the VE table algorithim for LS1 cars

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149741

This led to a better understanding of how to tune the engines.

I actually suspect the VVT table is used as some kind of minimum setpoint table, with the boost table used to trim it from there, but I don't think we quite know (although I have been out of the loop for about 6 months, so maybe someone has figured it out and posted it).

Do you guys have any clues ? I don't :nixweiss:

[sweetdiesel]

Not sure if a alithorgam would help?
I dont find tuning the VVT as a problom, however i just tweak and test-tweak and test but fortunatly its not difficult to see results from minor tweaking
the biggest player in the boost tables IMO is the turbo vane target maximum
if you need some help PM me

[Sleepertrk]

Not sure if a alithorgam would help?
I dont find tuning the VVT as a problom, however i just tweak and test-tweak and test but fortunatly its not difficult to see results from minor tweaking
the biggest player in the boost tables IMO is the turbo vane target maximum
if you need some help PM me

A boost gauge will tell you everything you need to know...

[LBZ]

A boost gauge will tell you everything you need to know...


About what??

[Sleepertrk]

About your VVT, tuning a turbo is easy w/ a boost gauge.

[mplteddy]

How?