Transmission swap in E38/E67 vehicle.

[XLR8NSS]

Soon GM is coming out with a Gen IV 5.3L(LH8 ) equipped Canyon/Colorado. For some reason they are sticking a 4L60E in it. :( The truck will come with a E67 ECM.

What I'm wondering is what would it take(ECM/TCM wise) to swap say a 6L90E into one of these things?

I've heard that the ECM and TCM would need to be flashed with the OS from a vehicle with the same combo as what the swap is(E67/6L90E). Currently there is no vehicle that has a E67/6L90E combo. Can a E38 file be flashed into a E67 ECM? All the trucks that use the 6L90E have E38 ECMs.

I'm just trying to get a better idea of what would be involved from a computer stand point in doing a swap like this. In the old days you just flashed in the appropriate OS and swapped a few pins around on the 4L60E to 4L80E swap.

Thanks

[ScarabEpic22]

GM is really doing that? I know the H3 Alpha is getting a 5.3L V8 and I assumed the 4L60E POS, but hadnt heard the Coly/Canyon is...

[XLR8NSS]

Yep, they are actually doing it. Really hard to believe after ALL the years of teasing people with V8 S10s/Colys/Canyons.

The H3 Alpha is getting one too like you mentioned.

Here is more info about it.

http://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/showthread.php?t=401237

Anyone on the trans swap stuff?

[GMPX]

4L60E will more than likely use a T42 TCM (External to the Trans).
6L90E will of course use a T43 TCM (Internally fitted in Trans).
It should not matter what the ECM is E38 or E67, it's all in the TCM and most things are just communicated on the GMLAN.
But, it would sure be a lot of messing around for two extra gears!

Cheers,
Ross

[XLR8NSS]

I'm not as concerned about getting two extra gears as I am about getting a stronger transmission. :)

And if people didn't do any "messing around" with their vehicles you guys wouldn't have much business. :D ;)

So what you're saying is that the ECM(E38/E67) doesn't care what transmission is hooked up? It sends out the same data for all TCMs? If that's the case and the ECM/TCM are that independent than it doesn't sound like there would be much hassle getting the electronic part of it taken care of, maybe an adapter for the connectors.

Thanks Ross

John

[joecar]

Rumour has it that the 6L80/6L90 may not be quite as strong as a 4L80E or a built 4L80E... can rumours be trusted...?

[XLR8NSS]

I don't really know, they are pretty new and I don't think many people have really pushed them yet. The only questionable thing I've read about a 6L80E was from someone with a new Denali(IIRC) that was running low 14s and saying the trans was acting up a bit. I don't know if that was tuning related or what though. If I can find the link I'll post it.

In stock form the 6L90E is rated for more power than a 4L85E which is a beefed up 4L80E.

Here are some of the power ratings(from gmpowertrain.com) in this link.

http://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3726214&postcount=16

I don't think I'd be pushing the 90E in the vehicle I'd like to put it in. An extended cab 4wd Canyon/Coly weighs less than 4000lbs which is an easy 1500+lbs lighter than the vehicles the trans was made for. I'm only looking to have about 600 flywheel hp also. :)

[joecar]

It'll work out, let us know how it goes... :cheers:

I've heard of tuned units dying, so maybe the key is to leave it as is.

[XLR8NSS]

A little bump for this thread.

Anyone know of any swaps from a T42 to T43 in a E38/E67 vehicle yet?

I've heard of one but, looking for all feedback. :)

[gmh308]

A little bump for this thread.

Anyone know of any swaps from a T42 to T43 in a E38/E67 vehicle yet?

I've heard of one but, looking for all feedback. :)

T43/E38 combination relatively common.

I would go so far as to say that the T43 does care what ECM calibration it is talking to. While a non "compatible" pair may work, it is hit and miss.

The schematics for the 09 CTS-V with LSA show an X3 connector, so it must be an E67. That car runs a 6L90E, so it may be a start.

Cheers!

[PSWired]

I put a 6L80e (with its T43) behind an E38 ECM with an OS designed to work with a 4L60e/T42. For the most part, things worked fine, but there was one big bug- the engine would go into reduced power mode every now and then. The problem went away after loading the correct OS into the ECM (one designed for the 6L80e).

A more recent problem I'm having is using a 2007 era OS in the TCM and 2009 OS in the ECM. Some of the message structures must have changed in the two years, because the ECM is not correctly reading the gear selector position from the TCM anymore. No backup lights, no crank relearn (ECM always thinks trans is in D), no idle speed compensation during garage shift, etc.

You'll probably get something that works, but expect some bugs.

[XLR8NSS]

I have an E67/T42 setup right now. It's an all wheel drive Trailblazer SS.

I'd like to put a 6L80E/AWD trans setup in it but, I don't think there are any E67/T43/AWD combinations out there.

Do you think I could swap to an E38 ECM? Then I wonder if all my gauges/etc would work.

If these came with E38s I think it would be a much easier swap as there are E38/T43/AWD combos out there already.

[ChipsByAl]

The Trailblazer swap is an interest of mine as well. The 2009 Trailblazer will have the E67 ECM and it may be similar to the 2009 CTS-V E67/T43 combination.

[XLR8NSS]

The Trailblazer swap is an interest of mine as well. The 2009 Trailblazer will have the E67 ECM and it may be similar to the 2009 CTS-V E67/T43 combination.

I'm not sure how that helps, the '07-'08s already have the E67 in them. The '09s are not getting the 6spd afaik.

2wd TBSS already have an option for E67/T43 setup, not sure if it would work though since it's car setups.

[ChipsByAl]

The AWD Trailblazer SS transfer case has no shift functions or any module controls. It may be that nothing needs to be done different for it compared to the RWD Trailblazer SS. For my H0160 in the ECM, the "drivetrain type" is Not Defined. How different are the RWD vs the AWD Trailblazer SS ECM and TCM files?
Al

[XLR8NSS]

Hmmm, I don't know but, will check mine out here in a bit after I eat. :)

CTS-V would be a nice OS too since it's factory boosted. My TVS1900 will be here soon. :D

[gmh308]

I put a 6L80e (with its T43) behind an E38 ECM with an OS designed to work with a 4L60e/T42. For the most part, things worked fine, but there was one big bug- the engine would go into reduced power mode every now and then. The problem went away after loading the correct OS into the ECM (one designed for the 6L80e).

A more recent problem I'm having is using a 2007 era OS in the TCM and 2009 OS in the ECM. Some of the message structures must have changed in the two years, because the ECM is not correctly reading the gear selector position from the TCM anymore. No backup lights, no crank relearn (ECM always thinks trans is in D), no idle speed compensation during garage shift, etc.

You'll probably get something that works, but expect some bugs.

Yes the T43/E38 pair tend to be very fussy when you least expect it. Some OS/cal pairs work better than others. Some are downright risky to try. Did the speedo still work with the E38 A4 OS, expecting a hard wired VSS vs a CAN message?

From what a GM guy was telling me, the 09 setups are a lot smarter than the earlier OS's. They expect the BCM to be the VIN repository, and are a lot tighter on what flash they will allow, and with the wireless workshop setups, the flash is fully downloaded and checked for integrity (checksum?) before the various modules (ECM/TCM/BCM/ABS/ECBM etc) execute the actual flash. He wasn't sure whether this was done by the individual modules i.e. E38stores old and new image at the same time, or handled by the BCM. Also the BCM tells all the modules (a dozen or more of them....) to shut up and be quiet while the downloading is done.

Cheers.

[PSWired]

Yes the T43/E38 pair tend to be very fussy when you least expect it. Some OS/cal pairs work better than others. Some are downright risky to try. Did the speedo still work with the E38 A4 OS, expecting a hard wired VSS vs a CAN message?

From what a GM guy was telling me, the 09 setups are a lot smarter than the earlier OS's. They expect the BCM to be the VIN repository, and are a lot tighter on what flash they will allow, and with the wireless workshop setups, the flash is fully downloaded and checked for integrity (checksum?) before the various modules (ECM/TCM/BCM/ABS/ECBM etc) execute the actual flash. He wasn't sure whether this was done by the individual modules i.e. E38stores old and new image at the same time, or handled by the BCM. Also the BCM tells all the modules (a dozen or more of them....) to shut up and be quiet while the downloading is done.

Cheers.

The ECM did have the proper speed info, but I don't have an instrument cluster that's on the CAN bus (yet) so I don't know if the factory speedo would have worked. The VSS is attached to the TCM in the 4L60e application too, so I'm guessing the message between the TCM and ECM is the same.

[XLR8NSS]

Just heard back from a friend with a 2wd '08 TBSS. He checked my stock files against his and there was no differences in the ECM or TCM files.

Seems like that opens this up to possibly using a '08 E67/T43/2wd OS then huh?

Anyone have a clue what other modules might have to be looked into if you change the O2 in the ecm/tcm to a different vehicle?

[gmh308]

Just heard back from a friend with a 2wd '08 TBSS. He checked my stock files against his and there was no differences in the ECM or TCM files.

Same OS and calibration part numbers?

That sounds like great news!

[XLR8NSS]

I am jumping ahead, there are still no '08 E67/T43 setups that would work I don't think right?

The '09 CTS-V would be the setup we had to try right?

He is sending me his files, I'll check on the OS and cal numbers.

[XLR8NSS]

Files from an AWD and a 2wd '08 TBSS

The only difference is the "system" calibration in the transmission tune. Engine file is exactly the same which makes sense.

[gmh308]

Files from an AWD and a 2wd '08 TBSS

The only difference is the "system" calibration in the transmission tune. Engine file is exactly the same which makes sense.

How is this all going? Does the 4WD have a lo 4 setting?

:cheers:

[XLR8NSS]

How is this all going? Does the 4WD have a lo 4 setting?

:cheers:

I am kinda waiting for someone else to do it first. :D I know it has been done in a pickup truck(E38) and there were a few ECM/OS/module issues that I am not sure I can work through with the E67 versus the E38. There is at least one other swap in progress that I know of but, it's coming along slow.

Not sure if the 4wd comment was for me but, my TBSS has full time All Wheel Drive, no switching to 2wd or a lo range at all.

[gmh308]

I am kinda waiting for someone else to do it first. :D I know it has been done in a pickup truck(E38) and there were a few ECM/OS/module issues that I am not sure I can work through with the E67 versus the E38. There is at least one other swap in progress that I know of but, it's coming along slow.

Not sure if the 4wd comment was for me but, my TBSS has full time All Wheel Drive, no switching to 2wd or a lo range at all.

Ok thanks. Got it on the full time 4wd. :cheers: