A way to cheat and fix your strims/ltrims using Rtac Very quickly.

[wait4me]

Hi guys,

Here is what i did,

I set up the system so it will shut off ltrims, and use strim feedback from the o2 sensors to do auto correction to the ve table.

What does this mean?

Well, when we are tuning our cars and mess with the ve, the pcm always changes itself back to what the o2 sensors are wanting when we are using our widebands. So, well, this way will just change and set up the ve table to what the Computer and its 02 sensors thing it needs to be. I have tested it on SEVERAL vehicles and it works awsome! It tunes the vehicle to a 0 strim all over the whole ve table except at 80kpa up. that is where you need to be using your wideband. Also you need to make sure your wideband is on and working just to verify you have no problems with the stock 02 sensors or have a vacume leak ect.....

""""""""""Warning modifying this file may screw with things, save a copy first before proceeding"""""""""""""""""

OK, here is what is needed to be done.

1st we need to set up a Calculated pid that takes strims and makes it to a Ben filter like pid.

To do that, we have to modify the "sae_generic.txt" file located in the efilive folder.

Look in the file for
# E38 VE
# ========================
*CLC-00-959
factor 0.0 5.0 .4 "{E38.SCALEDCORVE_DMA}/1000"



When you find this, copy paste this right after that on a new line,

# Strim Fuel Correction
# ========================
*CLC-00-999
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{SAE.SHRTFT1}/100+1"




So the new entry should look like this:

# E38 VE
# ========================
*CLC-00-959
factor 0.0 5.0 .4 "{E38.SCALEDCORVE_DMA}/1000"


# Strim Fuel Correction
# ========================
*CLC-00-999
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{SAE.SHRTFT1}/100+1"

[wait4me]

Then we have to look for an entry that looks like this:

CALC.E38_VE F54B CLC-00-959 factor "E38 ECM" "E38 Scaled VE"

You have to add this right after that on a new line,

CALC.STRIM_BEN F54C CLC-00-999 factor 02-Wide "Strim Fuel % VE Fixer"


So the entry should now look like this:


CALC.E38_VE F54B CLC-00-959 factor "E38 ECM" "E38 Scaled VE"

CALC.STRIM_BEN F54C CLC-00-999 factor 02-Wide "Strim Fuel % VE Fixer"

[wait4me]

That is all that is needed for you to modify in that file, so you can just save it and then close it.


Now you are ready to modify the Cal link file. This will turn on the RTAC stuff for your new STrim fixer.

So look for your cal_link.txt file in Efilive main folder and open it up.


Look for a section that says:

;Main VE Table
B0101.ROW=SAE.RPM
B0101.COL=SAE.MAP
B0101.RRR=CALC.BEN_AUT1,

Put CALC.STRIM_BEN before the CALC.BEN_AUT1,
So it will now look exactly like this:

;Main VE Table
B0101.ROW=SAE.RPM
B0101.COL=SAE.MAP
B0101.RRR=CALC.STRIM_BEN,CALC.BEN_AUT1,CALC.BEN_AU T2,CALC.BEN_FJO1,CALC.BEN_FJO2,CALC.BEN_LC11,CALC. BENLC12,CALC.BEN_LM11,CALC.BEN_LM12,CALC.BEN_PLX1, CALC.BEN_PLX2,CALC.BEN_TE1,CALC.BEN_TE2,CALC.BEN_W BC1,CALC.BEN_WBC2

[wait4me]

now close that file after you save it.

Then, you just open up the scan tool, and select strims and also make a new map just like you would the main ben filter, BUT, you just select the "Strim Fuel % VE Fixer" that is in the calculated section in the pids.

Then you are good to go, It will be all set up for the pcm to use strims for correction.

What you will see is, the pcm will have strims either positive or negitive, and it will just quickly make them all go to zeros.

The Ve table will become VERY smooth, and the more you drive it, the more perfect it gets. Usually within 10 minutes of driving, the WHOLE ve table where you are in closed loop will be EXACT.

Hope this helps...

Jes

[5.7ute]

Great work. I cant wait for my Roadrunner to turn up so I can give this a try.

[ScarabEpic22]

Wish the P10 could get a RR and this... :(

[Doc]

Thanks for sharing this Jes. This is for LS1 controllers? If so, just curious why you used the E38.xxx stuff??

[wait4me]

IT is for any controller you have strims set up on. not just ls1. also it dont have to be used with a roadrunner. You can use it just like your Ben filter for the ve tables with the paste and multiply feature.

[Chalky]

Jesse:

I did the copy and past but cannot get the pids to show up.

Any ideas? Can you look at my files?

[wait4me]

Do a search on your pc for the files and make sure you modify all that you find. there might be a different one somewhere on your pc. just make sure they all match the latest version.

[Chalky]

That was it. Thanks.

So this is just a matter of diabling LTFT and letting STFT zero in VE table.

You had a post on LS1tech earlier this on this method if I remember.

[wait4me]

Yes. The pcm will just do it when you turn back on the trims after you tune it with a wideband, so why not just perfect it via what the pcm wants.

[LSRacing]

Seems like a very good idea. I will give this a shot tomorrow. I think people are confused about the E38 line. It is just placed after the E38 line and does not only work on E38 PCMs. If I understand this correctly, once you input these lines, any pcm you hook up to that uses STFT will work with this. Jesse, is this correct? Good job on this. I can see this being a big help.

[joecar]

So, disable the MAF and LTFT's, and use STFT's to clean up the VE table...

Very cool... :cheers:

Could you then enable the MAF and clean it up also like that...?

[Alvin]

Heres an idea I used to do all the time with chip tuning in excel

Set up a if then statement.. Something on the lines of IF cell is empty (or n<X) then 0% else Strim/.95.

The idea is to target a slightly rich AFR but not continously add fuel where the scanner didn't hit.

[wait4me]

The maf can still be put on. It will work fine.

[DrX]

I don't see the PID either. There is 1 copy of sae_generic.txt on my drive and 2 copies of cal_link.txt(both identical). What did I mess up?

[Chalky]

I don't see the PID either. There is 1 copy of sae_generic.txt on my drive and 2 copies of cal_link.txt(both identical). What did I mess up?

I put a copy of each file in /v7/configuration and a copy of each in /v7/user configuration subdirectories. Not sure what directory EFILive looks to for these files but it worked for me.

[DrX]

I'll give that a shot.

[VT LS1 NZ]

I don't see the PID either. There is 1 copy of sae_generic.txt on my drive and 2 copies of cal_link.txt(both identical). What did I mess up?

It should be there under calulated pids

other wise it will be there under a new heading in the pid "o2 wide" because you have used a "o" not a "0" doesn't matter it should still work.

When I tried this 3 months ago I use an avg between both .

*CLC-00-998
%rich -20.0 20.0 .2 "({SAE.SHRTFT1}+{SAE.SHRTFT2})/2"

# SHRTFT Fuel Correction
# ========================
*CLC-00-975
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.STFT_AVG_B1&B2}/100+1"



CALC.STFT_AVG_B1&B2 F600 CLC-00-998 %rich Fuel "Average STFT1 & STFT2"


CALC.STRTFT_BEN F61C CLC-00-975 factor O2-Wide "SHRTFT VE Correction"

[DrX]

It wasn't showing because the unsupported PIDs were hidden. Unchecked the "Supported" box and it showed up.

[vetteboy2k]

For those that dont want to change the sae_generic.txt and cal_link.txt you can just create a map for your STFT and then paste your trims into an excel sheet. I started with the interpolation sheet then added the formula /100+1 to get the factor to copy and paste with labels back to the VE table.

Makes it real easy plus the added benfit of the interpolation for cells that weren't hit while tuning and the extra smoothing benefit. :cheers:

[dc_justin]

Or rather than use the sae_generic.txt file, you could do just the same with the calc_pids.txt file. This way you wouldn't have to worry about it being overwritten the next time you install the software.

[LSRacing]

I tired this and the real time updates will not work for some reason. I have no problems with real time and using a WB for the VE table but for some reason the STFT Fixer shows N/A for the adjustment needed. Has anyone else got this to work? I have went back thru and all things are pasted correctly that were listed. The VE Fixer Pid shows up. I have the Map setup with the correct settings. Not sure what im missing.

[VT LS1 NZ]

I tired this and the real time updates will not work for some reason. I have no problems with real time and using a WB for the VE table but for some reason the STFT Fixer shows N/A for the adjustment needed. Has anyone else got this to work? I have went back thru and all things are pasted correctly that were listed. The VE Fixer Pid shows up. I have the Map setup with the correct settings. Not sure what im missing.

Here's one thing to check that in your RTACS window in your tuning tool that in the row coloum it shows your STFT Fixer depending where you programmed that when you set up your cal_link.txt file .If it shows your wide band then a quick fix is disable your widedand in the Pid table.

[finishline]

I'm not having much luck with this either. Once in a while it runs a cell up to high 80's when all the surrounding cells are in the 60's. Any idea's on what I'm doing wrong. Do I need some sort of filter? These are steady cells I'm sitting in and I just watch them take off. I've got the ltft turned off and the maf is on.

Any ideas?

[DrX]

This technique appears to work well for me now that I have installed build 24 of V7.5.1 and have RTACS working again.

[wait4me]

You have to set the update freq to "1" so it will instantly fix the cell instead of waiting for 10 hits. Then it will not modify the cells like you are seeing Finishline.

[finishline]

Thanks Jesse,

I had already changed that to 1 but had no real idea what it was going to do. I was hoping it would fix the severe delay between when I step on the gas and when the VE Table shows the cells I'm operating in. Would your suggestion fix both of those problems? I' running Windows XP a 2.4g compaq with 512 mem and 2 usb ports. They are not high speed usb ports. Thanks for your help.

[wait4me]

I would say the problem with the lag is from too many other processes running on your laptop. If you hit ctrl, alt Delete on your keyboard and open the task manager, what does it say you are running for the number of processes.

On a new dell i bought there was 84 processes running! A top of the line laptop was slower than a 1 legged dog... So i had to just erase the laptop harddrive and start completely over with a fresh version of xp and that took care of all the bloat ware/advertisements that they install on the laptops to keep cost down...
So now it runs 30 processes and is very fast like it should have been to begin with. And there is no more lag on the scan tool either. The data does get saved in the scan tool while logging, but the laptop cant update the screen fast enough when it has to think with the 30 other programs running in the background...

[BrianC98Z28]

so you have to have a roadrunner for this to work??

[hquick]

Yep. But I believe you can map your STFT's and copy paste and achieve a similar result.

[mikeyayell]

So is a road runner necessary?

[Chevy366]

So is a road runner necessary?
Quote from Page 1 , post #8 : T is for any controller you have strims set up on. not just ls1. also it dont have to be used with a roadrunner. You can use it just like your Ben filter for the ve tables with the paste and multiply feature.

So , no , don't need RR .

[Chalky]

I had this working before I upgraded. Now I have the pid setup and selected but cannot setup a MAP as the Strim is not available as a dropdown menu option.

Any ideas?

[hquick]

Have you checked that all the cal_link files are upgraded?

[Chalky]

Yes. I have gone over both files that were modified. I can't understand why it is an available pid but not available in the MAP menu.

What the hell, I'll check them again.

[Chalky]

OK. When I look at teh pid descriptions, for Strim under units , it is blank. Any ideas? I have checked my entries in both text files numerous times. I am assuming the issue is in the sae_genereic.txt file but I cannot find it.

NE1?

[hquick]

Have you made the changes to BOTH cal_link files. There's one in My doc's as well as one in program files. The sae_generic file is in program files only. (all under user config).

[Chalky]

All three txt files seems to be in place. Here is a copy of the pids. The strim pid shows up but with no entry for units. When I try to create a map, the strim is not available in the dropdown menu for data parameter.

[hquick]

What does the line look like where you pasted it in.
You need to spread the text along to match the other lines above and below.
This is what my sae_generic looks like:


# Strim Fuel Correction
# ========================
*CLC-00-960
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{SAE.SHRTFT1}/100+1"

EDIT: It won't post it as it looks. The 0.0 2.0 and .1 should be spaced to line up under those above them

[Chalky]

I have everything lined in the txt file.

# Dynojet WBO2
# ========================
*CLC-00-955
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}*1.6+10"
*CLC-00-956
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_DJ1.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"
*CLC-00-957
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}*1.6+10"
*CLC-00-958
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_DJ2.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"
# E38 VE
# ========================
*CLC-00-959
factor 0.0 5.0 .4 "{E38.SCALEDCORVE_DMA}/1000"
# Strim Fuel Correction
# ========================
*CLC-00-960
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{SAE.SHRTFT1}/100+1"

[Chalky]

does your strim pid show a value under the "Units" heading?

[Chalky]

Got it. Re-installed 7.4 Couldn't get it to work in 7.5.3

[hquick]

Strange....I had no trouble getting it to work on 7.5.3. I just made sure the cal_link files in both the My doc's and program files were identical and altered the sae_generic file as per the tutorial.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/hquick/strims.jpg

[mr.prick]

i did this today and i noticed that the RR only
updates cells without PE on.
once PE hits, the "BEN" count is 1.00
did i do something wrong or is this just
an unintended consequence?

[5.7ute]

It is a necessary consequence, since it relies on closed loop fuelling to work out the factor.

[wait4me]

That is a good thing that it dont update when in pe, as you dont want to use the narrow band for wot.. So it just works out and dont make any changes where it shouldnt. :) As for the other stuff, ill soon post auto spark table building.....

[5.7ute]

As for the other stuff, ill soon post auto spark table building.....
Sounds interesting.

[Biggsy]

....ill soon post auto spark table building.....

:eek:

I dont know about that one...

[hquick]

I've been trying this procedure over the last couple of days and the BEN's hit 1.0 very easily.
I'm not sure I'm doing this right though because when I look at my AFR's from the log they are all up around 16 or so???
Any advice please?

[hquick]

accompanying log....bugger...1.01MB...won't load up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/hquick/STFTBens.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/hquick/STFTAFR.jpg

[Whippled 496]

So are you trying to AUtoVE? If so, i am pretty sure you need to have the LTFT's and STFT's off. Also when doing an AutoVE, you need to have something other than 14.63 in your B3647 table or it will mess stuff up. Try 14.65 or 14.67 for a commanded AFR. I also noticed you dont have anything populated in A0014 or A0008 to offset the AFR depending on IATs and ECTs. Again, i dont know exactly what your doing, so I am just throwing a few things out there.

[hquick]

You have to set the update freq to "1" so it will instantly fix the cell instead of waiting for 10 hits. Then it will not modify the cells like you are seeing Finishline.

OK...I believe the above is my problem. I had the update set at 0 so as to keep updating.
Why is that a bad thing? I would have thought it would find the 'perfect' number and then stop...or just hover a couple of decimal places around that number?
Anyway....I'll try it again in the morning with the update set to 1.
But....I'm still confused.

Whippled....thanks for the thoughts (any and everything helps). Read the start of this thread...Jesse describes how to dial in the Main VE using stft's and RTACS. That's what I'm attempting to do.
A0008 and A0014 are set so as to make no alterations to VE whilst doing this 'fix'. The fewer modifiers influencing it, the better....or so I believe?????

EDIT: Also....do I need to apply a filter so as not to update above 80Kpa....or do I just need to set my PE to 80 Kpa?

[MICK]

Something is a miss there Howard.

When you were tuning off your wideband your trims averaged -8 or so, yet your commanded vs actual via your wideband was spot on.

Need to confirm that wideband.

By the seat of your pants, does it feel better to drive using the trim Ben's over your wideband Ben?

Your starting to really get the hang of it now.

[Whippled 496]

Whippled....thanks for the thoughts (any and everything helps). Read the start of this thread...Jesse describes how to dial in the Main VE using stft's and RTACS. That's what I'm attempting to do.
A0008 and A0014 are set so as to make no alterations to VE whilst doing this 'fix'. The fewer modifiers influencing it, the better....or so I believe?????



Whoops!! shows how lazy i am..:)

[hquick]

Tried again this morning...same thing?
Wondering if I have an air leak somewhere?
If I had an air leak in the donut just above the NB and WB O2's on that bank..would it cause the WBO2 guage to read lean and the extra air at the NB would cause it to think lean and add fuel?....nope...just thinking about it..that would cause a rich condition? I think???

[Chalky]

How do I change the update to 1?

[5.7ute]

How do I change the update to 1?

Edit/Properties. Hit the roadrunner tab & you have an update frequency setting in the RTACS area.
Howard, I believe you are changing the correction % not the update frequency as this can not be set to 0.

[Chalky]

Gotcha, RR users. :)

[hquick]

Yeah...you're right Mick...I've been 'playing' with them all.
This morning I set the update to 1 and set the course control to 50.
Correction control set to 1 also so it stopped updating as it greyed out the cell.
I still don't understand what's going on.
My VE was pretty much dialled in via the RTACS AutoVE process.
As soon as I engage trims it heads lean...badly lean!
But...I've always thought I'm running too rich.
I'll climb under the Burb over the weekend and see if I have any exhaust leaks or anything...although....I expect that'd make it run rich?

Yeah Chalky...we're 'those' people. Lol!

[5.7ute]

Howard, I am pretty sure if the switchpoints are set away from what you are commanding you will get what you are desribing. Log wideband AFR & both o2 sensor voltages without correction turned on & post it up with the tune. It is only a theory but may be worth looking at.

[hquick]

Already added the O2 voltages to the pid file...thought of that this morning...after the drive in.
I'll log it in an hour on the way home.

Thanks


EDIT: started a new thread so as not to jam up this 'sticky'

http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?p=67558#post67558

[WeathermanShawn]

We've set up the sae_generic and cal_link files as stated on page one of this post and are getting the strangest readings: STRIM Fixer BEN is 1.7! When trying the RTACS, an Idle VE cell went well over 100! Strims are averaging -0.3% to -0.5%.

No matter what formula we put into the sae_generic.txt for the STRIM Fuel Correction pid, the resulting numbers don't change in the map.

We have to be missing something fundamental ... Any thoughts? Thanks!

[wait4me]

Ill have to make some changes to what i wrote. Paul added in some other tables and it over wrote what i did as far as numbering goes, so you are actually seeing something else as that 1.7 value. Ill finish it up today and just post it here all done so you can just use another file to add them in instead of overwriting another.

[WeathermanShawn]

A little disappointed that as a dedicated user of EFILive, I never received any response to the question of utilizing STRM's to 'smooth' the VE table via Roadrunner RTAGS

A number of us are new users to RR, and any information that someone can share to maximize its phenomenal capabilities is always greatly appreciated. However, I understand people are busy and my follow-up is to simply confirm that the method is still applicable. While unable to utilize the VE Fixer through RTAGS , it can still be done manually (as the post indicated).

Utilizing SHRTF PIDS, just used the following calculation:

SHRTF1+SHRTF2/100+1.

After logging, and applying the 'standard' filters (TPS, DFCO,etc), and utilizing the EFILive MAP function, simply cut and pasted it to the VE Table. Definitely 'smooths' out the VE Table, and after a few passes it has nearly zeroed them out.

Hopefully the RTAGS method for VE Fixer will reappear at some point.

[TFZ_Z06]

Hello:

A little disappointed that as a dedicated user of EFILive, I never received any response to the question of utilizing Strims to 'smooth' the VE table via Roadrunner RTAGS

A number of us are new users to RR, and any information that someone can share to maximize its phenomenal capabilities is always greatly appreciated.

However, I understand people are busy and my follow-up is to simply confirm that the method is still applicable.

While unable to utilize the VE Fixer through RTAGS , it can still be done manually (as the post indicated).

Utilizing SHRTF pids, just used the following calculation:

SHRTF1+SHRTF2/100+1.

After logging, and applying the 'standard' filters (TPS, DFCO,etc), and utilizing the EFILive MAP function, simply cut and pasted it to the VE Table.

Definitely 'smooths' out the VE Table, and after a few passes it has nearly zeroed them out.

Hopefully the RTAGS method for VE Fixer will reappear at some point.

If I missing something, please let me know.

Thank you very much.


..WeathermanShawn.

I am an RTACS user. I have tried updating my VE via this method and the results were not acceptable. It is my opinion, based on testing, this method will be largely affected by the cam overlap in use. In my case, it did not work well with stoich settings at 14.68. In retrospect, I would wonder if setting the A/F richer might have helped.

This would not result in correct data.
SHRTF1+SHRTF2/100+1.

Try:
( ({SAE.SHRTFT1} + {SAE.SHRTFT2}) /2)/100 + 1

or: Note, my stock car was usually around 5% LTFT and ran good as tuned by GM, so
iff ( ({SAE.LONGFT1}+{SAE.LONGFT2})/2 > 5, ({SAE.SHRTFT1} + {SAE.SHRTFT2})/2)/100 + 1, 1)

Also note, you may want to control what happens at if FT < 0 w/formula.

[WeathermanShawn]

Thanks for the clarification on the formula.

Interesting point on cam overlap and some of the difficulties you mentioned. I will definitely try out the points you mentioned.

[TFZ_Z06]

Thanks for the clarification on the formula.

I either got lazy transposing the formula, or I made an error in my calculations.

I will re-do the calculations.

Interesting point on cam overlap and some of the difficulties you mentioned.

I will definitely try out the points you mentioned.

Again, thanks for a double-check on the formula. It was a long weekend. Glad to have someone keep me from using bad data after all that effort.

Thanks again.

..WeathermanShawn..

Shawn, I can appreciate your background and have enjoyed reading your previous posts. I know you are kicking yourself on that one. Please post your observations from using RTACS. There are not that many of us, so I'm always looking for ideas from real time users.

REGARDING OVERLAP:
I haven't spent enough time on this, but subtle ques from datalogs lead me to believe that A/F at idle should be up almost 1 A/F point from stock to get the correct readings while in SD, OL mode. (Where resulting A/F = exhaust O2 + overlap O2).

[WeathermanShawn]

Probably need to do a better job of properly documenting findings, especially as it relates to RTAGS. Problem is there really is no official 'book' on tuning, especially as it relates to EFILive and RTAGS.

Have done some experiments while driving (with assistance). Changing RPM thresholds for airflow calculations (MAF), changing VE, MAF sensor calibration, etc. Easy to see in essence how much more the MAF controls airflow calculations/hence fueling calculations at various RPM's, especially above 2000 RPM's. Chased down spark knock in seconds, not minutes.

Sounds like you may have made some of the same observations. I was intrigued by your observations of idle A/F readings 'bias'. Some have mentioned it, but always nice to get someone to quantify it. Makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for your comments.

[wait4me]

Here is an easier route to go to put in the ve fixer. Put this file in your documents folder/efilive v7.5/ user configuration/

You need to say YES to the overwrite of the calc_pids.txt file.

Then reopen the software and you will now see the pids under the calculated tab.

[wait4me]

You still have to do the instructions to make the linking to work as posted in the 3rd thread.

[Stealth97]

The maf can still be put on. It will work fine.

I've been driving for around 4-6 hours and it seems my vehicle is tuning much slower than you said in the initial post. You said yours fixed the whole VE table within 10 minutes.

**Edit: I think it was because my update frequency was 10 instead of 1. Changed it now. Going for a drive.

My truck was really rich. I was previously getting 10mpg. It has been rich its whole life with me. After doing some VE tuning, I'm getting 12.5 mpg. Improvement, but still alot of work ahead.

Do you use coarse or fine? Did you change any other rates?

To set this up I followed the AutoVE RTACS tutorial, and then this post. I am using STFT1 only, and no wideband, because I do not have it installed yet. Tuning strictly off of STFT1 and bens.

I have another question but I save it for my next post.

[hquick]

Hi Eric,
When I went through this...I started with coarse control and set it to make big changes for the first short drive. Next I set it to fine control and smaller changes to try and taper it in as close as possible.

[Stealth97]

Thanks Howard, YGPM or You Got PM.

I'm having much fun with this.

After I tune the VE, I guess I'll do the MAF next. Wideband soon.

[JAY4SPEED]

I'm thinking about adopting this strategy for my E67. Obviously RTACS is out for me with the E67 with no roadrunner.

The first question I have is that if I don't plan on using RTACS do I need to worry about modifying the cal link file as it says in post #3? I've built a STFT ve fixer map and plan to apply the ST bens the same as I would with auto VVE so is the cal link file editing necessary?

Right now I've been doing OLSD VVE tuning. I'm assuming I'd have to enable closed loop and force my LTFT to 0 and allow the short term fuel trims to accumulate and populate my STFT ve fixers map, correct?

I liked this formula ( ({SAE.SHRTFT1} + {SAE.SHRTFT2}) /2)/100 + 1 from post #69 because it makes sense to me to average both banks together rather than just having a formula for bank 1. However, I'm not quite understanding the "+1" at the end of the formula. Was that something specifically for RTACS to keep it auto adjusting over the nominal trim and allowing the STFT to bring it back down? Would I be better off using the formula ( ({SAE.SHRTFT1} + {SAE.SHRTFT2}) /2)/100 if not using RTACS? I apologize my math skills are lacking.

Thanks for any clarification!
Jay

[JAY4SPEED]

As for the other stuff, ill soon post auto spark table building.....

This I'd be interested in learning as well. Any updates on this?

[joecar]

Jay,

If you're multiplying (and you are) use the 1st formula: (({SAE.SHRTFT1} + {SAE.SHRTFT2}) /2) /100 +1

If you're adding (and you're not) use the 2nd formula: (({SAE.SHRTFT1} + {SAE.SHRTFT2}) /2) /100


The 1st formula gives multiplying factors wrt 1.00 (like 1.02 or 0.98).

The second formula gives additive terms wrt 0.00 (like +0.02 or -0.02).


See the difference...?

[JAY4SPEED]

Jay,

If you're multiplying (and you are) use the 1st formula: (({SAE.SHRTFT1} + {SAE.SHRTFT2}) /2) /100 +1

If you're adding (and you're not) use the 2nd formula: (({SAE.SHRTFT1} + {SAE.SHRTFT2}) /2) /100


The 1st formula gives multiplying factors wrt 1.00 (like 1.02 or 0.98).

The second formula gives additive terms wrt 0.00 (like +0.02 or -0.02).


See the difference...?

Yes, thank you very much Sir!:cheers:

[samh_08]

Thread from the dead..

Simple question. Are we supposed to set B4206 to 'disable' so the STFT's are not influencing how much the VE table is actually off?

[samh_08]

Have you done this method with success? Seems like everyone is dead set on AutoVE, but this method seems to be the way to go when you are commanding 14.7:1.

Do you also want to disable closed loop mode?

[mr.prick]

Hi guys,

Here is what i did,

I set up the system so it will shut off ltrims, and use strim feedback from the o2 sensors to do auto correction to the ve table.
Enable {B4206} and disable LTFT's.

IMO use LTFT's instead.
It will take longer but it's what you want anyways
and you can leave PE on.
This method is for RTCS and IIRC was not intended for WOT/PE mode.
When PE comes on STFT's go to 1.00,
no adjustment will be made by multiplying by 1.


CLSD tuning with LTFTs (http://forum.efilive.com/showpost.php?p=95971&postcount=3)
This method should not be use with RTACS.

[samh_08]

I take it as he used strim feedback from the o2 sensors. It seems as though enabling B4206 would give me a watered down version of how much the VE table is actually off..?

If I am understanding correctly, this will put me back in open loop right?

Why do you prefer using LTFTs instead of this method if it takes longer?

[mr.prick]

He did post whether or not to enable {B4206}
I just assumed you would need to other wise you will be
in OL and the whole point of using "strim feedback from the o2 sensors"
would be mute.
I could be wrong though. :notacrook:


Why do you prefer using LTFTs instead of this method if it takes longer?

It will take longer but it's what you want anyways and you can leave PE on.
It will give you a smoother VE table than OLSD on the street.
LTFT or OLSD in steady state are the preferred method for VE tuning.

Personally I have found OLSD to be inconsistent because of IAT, altitude, load% ect.

[exploder]

Ok,

I went in and followed the instructions for the STFT fixer and went out and made a few logs. What I am trying to figure out is if

A. Am I logging this correctly to get good data?

B. Am I applying this correctly to the VE?

C. Are my STFT supposed to be that far different between bank 1 and 2 or is one of my sensors bad?

[mr.prick]

I would like to add a calc_pid to this:


#Units Low High Fmt Expression
#------------ ------ ------ ------ -----------------------------------------
*CLC-00-044
factor 0.0 2.0 .2 "iff({CALC.STRIM}*{CALC.BEN1}={CALC.BEN1},{CALC.BEN 1}*1,{CALC.STRIM}*1)"
# ================================================== =============================================
CALC.RTACS_STFT F044 CLC-00-044 factor Fuel "RTACS BEN w/STFT"

This multiplier is based on STFTs when they are active,
when PE mode becomes active the multiplier is based on BEN.

The original PID works only when STFTs are active,
once PE mode becomes active the multiplier is 1.00
This prevents any fuel from being added/subtracted in PE mode.

This will allow you to shape the VE table with STFTs and BEN at the
same time but only when each is active. (STFT or BEN)

[greasess]

I know this thread is dead but maybe somebody will help. I'm trying to use this method and I can't get past the first step. I opened the sae_generic.txt file and I can't find the section to modify. I have looked through the whole file several times. Also, since I'm using an LS1B instead of an E38 I would imagine I should be looking for a similar line using LS1B instead. Is this method still viable in 2015? Did the sae_generic.txt file change in the current version? Lost and confused like always...

[greasess]

18784

[joecar]

E38/E67 and later do not have VE...

Also, should really create your pids in calc_pids.txt to avoid losing them when sae_generic.txt gets overwritten on each V7 software update.

[greasess]

Thanks for the help once again joecar. I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm not sure what text to put where in the file. I'll take your word on using calc_pids.txt instead of sae_generic.txt. I know E38s don't have a VE table but the first post in this thread talks about finding "# E38 VE..." in sae_generic.txt. It's not in the file and I don't think that's what I would be looking for any way since I'm using an LS1B. I'm really trying to understand this but it's a bit over my head at this point still.

[mecnic99]

So I have this all set up, now it leans out my stft to the point it will barely run. My o2 show 800-1000mv which should be rich and the reason it keeps subtracting from my v.e.table. I have it set for olsd and occasionally I see ltft at +2. Does this make any sense? This seem to be worse at idle. Am I missing a filter or something simple. I followed the instructions for SAE_generic and the Cal_pid.txt. 4206 is set to enable.

[joecar]

So I have this all set up, now it leans out my stft to the point it will barely run. My o2 show 800-1000mv which should be rich and the reason it keeps subtracting from my v.e.table. I have it set for olsd and occasionally I see ltft at +2. Does this make any sense? This seem to be worse at idle. Am I missing a filter or something simple. I followed the instructions for SAE_generic and the Cal_pid.txt. 4206 is set to enable.Are you sure it's running from VE (and not MAF)...?

Are the HO2Sx1 voltages swinging (above 600 mV and below 300 mV)...? If so, how frequently (per second)...?

[mecnic99]

No I'm not sure it's running on the v.e only. I have maf signal disconnected p0101 no error, p0102 no mil and p0103 no mil, and fail frequency set to 150 so it should be v.e. only. Yes the o2s switch above and below 3 and 600mv.

[joecar]

Do you get a MAF DTC triggering immediately on engine start...?

[mecnic99]

Yes