V2 Black Box Logging

[Blacky]

Just a quick update on the status of BB logging for V2.

We are still on track to release BB logging by end of October. To use the new BB logging features will require that you update the firmware and bootblock of the FlashScan V2.
Updating the bootblock is a one way process, once it is updated you cannot go back to the old bootblock or firmware.
It is also a potential point of failure. If power to the V2 is interrupted during the bootblock update process it will need to be returned to EFILive to be re-programmed. The bootblock update process only takes about 2 seconds so the window for failure is extremely small.

What that means is, if you decide to upgrade to the new BB logging enabled firmware and a problem is discovered, you will need to wait for a fix to be programmed and released. Because the technical guys from EFILive will be in the US (for SEMA and other duties) any show stopping problem(s) with the new firmware can not and will not be fixed until at least mid-late Nov.

The reason for my concern is that I intend to make the beta BB logging firmware available to the public (as a pre-release) at the same time it is made available to the official beta testers. I made a commitment to have BB logging available by SEMA and the only way I can do that is to give you guys access to the beta firmware.

While the beta testers will have dedicated V2 units on which to test the BB logging, the general public will not. It is up to you to decide whether you can affored to take the risk or not.

I will post a more detailed description of the potential risks involved when we are closer to releasing the beta firmware.

Ok, now back to my 20 hours per day getting BB logging working on FlashScan...

Reagrds
Paul

[TAQuickness]

Can't wait! Thanks for the update Paul.

[Garry]

:cheers: :notacrook:

[kbracing96]

Sweet!:D I will defianly be in on this, as I have my old V1 for a backup;)

[kbracing96]

I know the difficulty in this is making the BB logging work with the 7.x software when it's was designed around the V8 stuff. Is this going to be the case with stand alone reading and flashing too? Or is it just going to be built and release with V8? Sorry if I come off sounding ungrateful for for BB loging, but I was just wondering.... :D

[Garry]

I could imagine that standalone flashing isn't a problem on the PC software side, as it probably just uses a file stored on the flash card ... (or reads & stores to flash)
For standalone flashing, the whole logic of programming the PCM (I assume) currently in the V7 software will have to be re-implemented on the V2 unit ... but then, it's already needed (and implemented?) on the autocal unit, so it should be a straight copy (more or less)

[2002_z28_six_speed]

I will wait for one of you guys other to try it. :)

[ScarabEpic22]

I think I will go ahead and try it, Im at school now anyway and I dont even know if I will be able to use it until after late Nov...

But, glad to hear it looks like its gonna come out!! Cant wait!

[Chevy366]

Ok, now back to my 20 hours per day getting BB logging working on FlashScan...
What are you wasting the other 4 hours on ? :Eyecrazy: :D
A lot of people can't wait for this , glad to here it is soon .

[gto_in_nc]

I will wait for one of you guys other to try it. :)

I'll try it!!! :beer:

[Biggsy]

I will wait for one of you guys other to try it. :)
I will wait for a couple (or more) of you guys to try it

Thanks to Paul for giving everyone a chance to be a Beta tester on this. One bonus for EFILIVE is that any bugs will be found fairly quickly (though the solutions will have to wait)

Paul, are we still going to be able to purchase licenses while you guys are in the US, or do we have to stock up now??

Though stocking up now for us guys in Aus wouldn't be a bad thing because of current exchange rates at a 33 year high :)

[Blacky]

Paul, are we still going to be able to purchase licenses while you guys are in the US, or do we have to stock up now??

We are very close to releasing an automated license purchase option. I'd like to see it available prior to SEMA (but it may not be). Regardless, we will have someone here who can still issue licenses.


Though stocking up now for us guys in Aus wouldn't be a bad thing because of current exchange rates at a 33 year high :)

:bawl: Its good for our (non-US) customers - bad for us.

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

I know the difficulty in this is making the BB logging work with the 7.x software when it's was designed around the V8 stuff. Is this going to be the case with stand alone reading and flashing too? Or is it just going to be built and release with V8? Sorry if I come off sounding ungrateful for for BB loging, but I was just wondering.... :D

Stand alone reading and flashing will not require any additional "work" to make it compatible with the V7 software. Basically you will just need to copy the *.tun files to/from the SD card.

The software that copies files to/from the SD card is already written as part of the V8 software and will be released with the first BB logging release.

Or you can just use an SD card reader if your PC has one.

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

What are you wasting the other 4 hours on ? :Eyecrazy: :D

Strip clubs of course...

[Blacky]

Just to clear up any confusion here's a summary of the issue that has caused the majority of the delays in delivering BB logging:

FlashScan and AutoCal have been designed at the hardware level to operate as standalone units. As part of operating as standalone units they have been reprogrammed with the new V2.5 firmware. That firmware is completely different form the V2.4 firmware.

The 2.4 firmware operates purely as a passthorugh system. The PC sends a command that is formatted for the target vehicle and receives a reply formatted from the target vehicle. The PC has ALL the encoding and decoding smarts built into it.

The 2.5 firmware operates as a standalone system. The PC sends generic commands to the FlashScan unit (i.e. get me the VIN) and the FlashScan unit contains all the smarts and vehicle/controller definitions to be able to convert that request into the correctly formatted command for the currently connected target vehicle. That makes the PC software extremely simple and easy to manage. However, it moves all the complexity into the FlashScan unit.

That has a number of benefits:

1. It will be simple for third party software developers to interface applications with FlashScan for any supported vehicle.

2. The PC software is much easier to develop, install and configure and it will not need to be updated anywhere near as often.

3. The complicated and critical scanning and reflashing duties will be handled by a dedicated CPU (FlashScan's Infineon) and many points of failure have been eliminated:
- Windows.
- Incorrect EFILive Software configuration.
- USB cables, drivers and configuration.
- Laptop battery failure.
- PC failure.

There was one drawback:

All these good features relied on the V8 PC software being ready earlier this year. It was not ready for reasons I won't go into here. So the decission was made to add the V7 passthrough comms into the FlashScan V2.5 firmware.

Now the V2.5 firmware has both V8 standalone and V7 passthrough capabilities. It took a while to implement it correctly but it was still faster than making everyone wait for the V8 software to be completed.

When the V8 software is ready (and the V7 software has been retired) the V7 passthrough comms will be removed. That probably won't be for 12 months after the V8 software is released.

Note: the V8 software still has passthrough data logging (different and more efficient than the V7 passthrough data logging) but not passthrough reading or flashing . The only difference you will notice is that the flashing and reading of PCMs will take about 10 seconds longer while the *.tun files are transferred to/from FlashScan. However the actual reading and programming time is faster becuase there is no need to send/receive USB data packets to/from the PC during reading/flashing.

Regards
Paul

[98ls1blackbird]

I'm kind of conservative, so I'll just wait for the dust to clear. The racing season here in Michigan is about done anyway. Hopefully I'll be using it for next season.

[kbracing96]

Stand alone reading and flashing will not require any additional "work" to make it compatible with the V7 software. Basically you will just need to copy the *.tun files to/from the SD card.

The software that copies files to/from the SD card is already written as part of the V8 software and will be released with the first BB logging release.

Or you can just use an SD card reader if your PC has one.

Regards
Paul
So am I understanding this correctly as the BB reading and flashing will function with the release of BB logging too? Or are you just saying that it won't take much more work to get it operational, in the near future.

Oh and thanks for the update :):cheers:

[Goldfinger911]

Hi Paul,

You said in the original post that:

"If power to the V2 is interrupted during the bootblock update process it will need to be returned to EFILive to be re-programmed. The bootblock update process only takes about 2 seconds so the window for failure is extremely small."

Since during the flash/write process the V2 gets it power from the USB interface, the safe route would be to leave the V2 still and alone while flashing correct? What situations have you encountered where the USB power is actually cut or altered during the boot block write and toasted a unit? Seems that if the laptop is on AC power, power saving features are off, and you are not handling the V2 or wiggling the cable during flash, you should be fine? Right?

Just curious. I am planning on trying it as soon as it is available thats why I ask.

Thanks again for all your hard work. We are all very excited for the V2's future.

[gto_in_nc]

I'm sure Paul will reply but, as a general rule, this is the case for most firmware flashes; interruption at the wrong moment can be a bad thing. (If you've ever updated the BIOS on a computer, you've seen the warnings.) As you say, unless you do something stupid (like inadvertently jerk the cable out at exactly the wrong instant), you should be fine. There is need for caution here, though...

[2002_z28_six_speed]

BIOS used to put their EEPROMS in sockets. Back then you could back up the data before the reflash. Don't think we have that option here...

[2002_z28_six_speed]

I will wait for a couple (or more) of you guys to try it

Thanks to Paul for giving everyone a chance to be a Beta tester on this. One bonus for EFILIVE is that any bugs will be found fairly quickly (though the solutions will have to wait)

Paul, are we still going to be able to purchase licenses while you guys are in the US, or do we have to stock up now??

Though stocking up now for us guys in Aus wouldn't be a bad thing because of current exchange rates at a 33 year high :)

I was just kidding. I am usually the first to try things. Like that damn TI MPS430. Curse that dreaded chip and TIs crappy way of storing examples on their homepage.

[Garry]

If I understood earlier posts correctly, this mainly applies to the boot code, which only takes a few seconds ... the regular flash update isn't as dangerous, as it relies on the boot code ...

[Blacky]

So am I understanding this correctly as the BB reading and flashing will function with the release of BB logging too? Or are you just saying that it won't take much more work to get it operational, in the near future.

Oh and thanks for the update :):cheers:

"it won't take much more work to get it operational, in the near future."
Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

You said in the original post that:

"If power to the V2 is interrupted during the bootblock update process it will need to be returned to EFILive to be re-programmed. The bootblock update process only takes about 2 seconds so the window for failure is extremely small."

It has never happened in testing and will probably never happen in the field (although I should never say never). I mentioned it only because it could happen if the USB plug is removed in those 2 seconds, or the power to the PC is cut. Anyway, it is extremely unlikely to fail.

The firmware reflash takes about 15 seconds but it won't cause any problems if it fails, because the bootblock remains intact and can be used to recover any failed firmware re-flash.

Regards
Paul

[Blacky]

If I understood earlier posts correctly, this mainly applies to the boot code, which only takes a few seconds ... the regular flash update isn't as dangerous, as it relies on the boot code ...

Exactly :cheers:

[Blacky]

Update:
http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?p=57176#post57176

[2002_z28_six_speed]

Hi Paul,

You said in the original post that:

"If power to the V2 is interrupted during the bootblock update process it will need to be returned to EFILive to be re-programmed. The bootblock update process only takes about 2 seconds so the window for failure is extremely small."

Since during the flash/write process the V2 gets it power from the USB interface, the safe route would be to leave the V2 still and alone while flashing correct? What situations have you encountered where the USB power is actually cut or altered during the boot block write and toasted a unit? Seems that if the laptop is on AC power, power saving features are off, and you are not handling the V2 or wiggling the cable during flash, you should be fine? Right?

Just curious. I am planning on trying it as soon as it is available thats why I ask.

Thanks again for all your hard work. We are all very excited for the V2's future.


As far as I know Vista is the only OS that does things like USB suspend. Does XP have it?

[Blacky]

As far as I know Vista is the only OS that does things like USB suspend. Does XP have it?

I'm not sure if USB suspend you are referring to is the same as the PC going into sleep mode. But when XP (or Vista) goes into sleep mode it also signals the USB device that its power supply is going to be reduced. FlashScan is designed to accept that signal and also go into reduced power mode - i.e. the LCD screen is switched off so that FlashScan can continue to operate using only the reduced power from the PC.

Regardless, I don't think any Windows operating system will suspend the USB while an application is running and within 2-3 seconds of the user clicking the "start programming" button.

Regards
Paul

[mr.prick]

what`s the word on that firmware update regarding
the LC1 and the RS232 input?

[Blacky]

what`s the word on that firmware update regarding
the LC1 and the RS232 input?

The RS232 interface to LC1 and LM1 requires the new BB logging firmware. So once that firmware update is in place I will be adding in support for serial wide band.

Regards
Paul

[mr.prick]

The RS232 interface to LC1 and LM1 requires the new BB logging firmware. So once that firmware update is in place I will be adding in support for serial wide band.

Regards
Paul

i`ve got the new firmware...(beta)
how do you set up the V2 for pids to start BBL?

[2002_z28_six_speed]

i`ve got the new firmware...(beta)
how do you set up the V2 for pids to start BBL?


Where is the link for the new bootblock? You mean you have the firmware/bootblock for BBL?

[Tordne]

It has not been release yet.