Would this WB02 sensor work w/ Flashscan?

[AllCammedUp]

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm

Not having messed much with WB02's at this point, I don't know the ins/outs of them just yet. I'm curious if this is a good unit that would be able to 'slipstream' its output into Flashscan for logging in EFILive.

Thanks!

[SinisterSS]

Reasonable price! Most of my vehicles have dual exhaust, where do I weld in the bung for the sensor? Before or after the cats? Is analyzing one bank "good enough" if it is a true dual setup?

[AllCammedUp]

Yeah, those are my questions, as well. Since I'm not running cats, my rear 02's are basically just plugging a hole, so I'm curious if I could use one of those bungs instead of having to drop the header to weld in a bung. I know that the closer you get the bung to the head, the better it is from a heat standpoint, but I don't know how far away is too far away.

Also, most setups I've seen only run it on one bank. Not sure if you need to run it on both banks or not.

I guess this leads me another question, though... once you get the WB setup, and say you are really lean, then how do you alter the tune to bump the AFR up or down a .1 value? Is there a prescribed method for doing so? I would think you'ld have to 'mess' w/ the PE table, IFR table or the VE table to do such, but I don't know if there is a 'rule of thumb' for how much an increase/decrease correlates to a .1 in the AFR.

[GMPX]

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm

Not having messed much with WB02's at this point, I don't know the ins/outs of them just yet. I'm curious if this is a good unit that would be able to 'slipstream' its output into Flashscan for logging in EFILive.

Thanks!

That one would work O.K, any of them would just as long as the have an Auxillary voltage output that indicates the WBO2 in some way. Although that one didn't look linear, so it might be a bit tricky to setup in EFILive.

Now this is not a plug!!, but I have a PLX unit in my car, I am very happy with it. It is mounted just near the original O2, they have plenty of data on where and where not to mount them.

I don't think it matters what bank you run it on, if you wanted the full picture you'd need 8 WBO2's to measure each cylinder, obviously if one is running leaner (or richer) that will probably throw the readings out, but then that's why in race shops they sometimes have EGT sensors on each pipe. Alot of level 1 drag racers have EGT's on each pipe, it's easy to pick lazy or lean cylinders.
Anyway, here's what the PLX unit looks like installed in my car.

http://www.efilive.com/upload/public/GMPX/PLX.jpg

[GMPX]

I guess this leads me another question, though... once you get the WB setup, and say you are really lean, then how do you alter the tune to bump the AFR up or down a .1 value? Is there a prescribed method for doing so? I would think you'ld have to 'mess' w/ the PE table, IFR table or the VE table to do such, but I don't know if there is a 'rule of thumb' for how much an increase/decrease correlates to a .1 in the AFR.

This was explained to me by "Delco" on this forum who knows a thing or two about tuning, though this was for my old car that was not using a MAF....

You don't fudge tune by changing MAF tables (in the case of the LS1), IFR's etc.
The correct way is to force the car to run in Open Loop with the commanded AFR in the Open Loop table set to say 13.0:1 everywhere. Then with a WBO2 (dah!!) run it thoughout the RPM and Load ranges and get an idea of where the fueling is at, is it richer, leaner than 13.0?, then go and change the VE table to bring the AFR's back so they read 13.0:1. Once you have mapped the entire RPM / Load range (yes that takes a LONG time) then return the Open Loop / Closed Loop settings to normal.
Now what 'should' happen is when you ask for 12.5 or 13.0 AFR in the P.E table that is what you will get.

[AllCammedUp]

GMPX,

Thanks a lot for your replies on this thread... it speaks volumes to answering some questions I've had for a while.

Ok, with the fact that we've got a LOT of logging yet to do.. .:).. I guess my next question is this: how do you ask for 12.1 or 13.0 or whatever w/ the PE table? Do you have to arbitrarily find out what % change in your vehicle makes the AFR jump by a .1 or what?

Guess I'm just looking for a way to 'turn the knob'. Once I know how to turn it, I'm the best dang knob turner I know. ;)

[Delco]

GMPX,

Thanks a lot for your replies on this thread... it speaks volumes to answering some questions I've had for a while.

Ok, with the fact that we've got a LOT of logging yet to do.. .:).. I guess my next question is this: how do you ask for 12.1 or 13.0 or whatever w/ the PE table? Do you have to arbitrarily find out what % change in your vehicle makes the AFR jump by a .1 or what?

Guess I'm just looking for a way to 'turn the knob'. Once I know how to turn it, I'm the best dang knob tuner I know. ;)

PE table is a inverse lambda so if you want 13:1 you ask for a lambda of 0.884 (13/14.7) then inverse this to 1.131 (1/0.884) - hopefully in flashscan we can change the units to afr or lamda rather than doing the maths all the time.

[AllCammedUp]

PE table is a inverse lambda so if you want 13:1 you ask for a lambda of 0.884 (13/14.7) then inverse this to 1.131 (1/0.884) - hopefully in flashscan we can change the units to afr or lamda rather than doing the maths all the time.

Wow - I had no idea that how it worked. All this time I've seen people talk about how they dialed in a 12.6 on the PE table, and I never knew it was that simple.

However, if we could actually enter in the cells a 12.9:1 or something like that, it would be killer! ;) However, I realize that there are more important things to get done than that. Nonetheless, thanks for explaining this - at least I'm not stymied by the discussion or the #'s anymore! ;)

[AllCammedUp]

Now this is not a plug!!, but I have a PLX unit in my car, I am very happy with it. It is mounted just near the original O2, they have plenty of data on where and where not to mount them.



With it being mounted in the car, you obviously use it quite a bit. How many miles are the WB 02 sensors rated at? I mean - can you run one all the time?

[GMPX]

Wow - I had no idea that how it worked. All this time I've seen people talk about how they dialed in a 12.6 on the PE table, and I never knew it was that simple.

It isn't 'that' simple.
That dialed in AFR of 12.6 will only be 'real' if injector scaling, VE, blah, blah is set up correctly. The PCM calculates an Injector on time that would give an AFR of 12.6 Based on many other parameters.

[GMPX]

With it being mounted in the car, you obviously use it quite a bit. How many miles are the WB 02 sensors rated at? I mean - can you run one all the time?

These are OEM Bosch WBO2 sensors as used in Audi, Porsche etc, they are designed for many miles of use, like at least 50,000, I even remember reading 100,000 somewhere.

[Steve Bryant]

Whitney,
Most of the WBO2 units use the Bosch Sensor which is rated at about 50,000 miles by Bosch I believe. In effect, they have about the same useful life as a narrow band oxygen sensor. The key is not to contaminate them with leaded fuel (which isn't available any more) and to make sure that they are not exposed to the exhaust gases without the heater being operative. Essentially, if you are going to leave it installed, it needs to be powered.

Whether or not you would want to leave it installed permanently or temporally would depend on your purposes. If you only want to tune a vehicle and have no need to monitor it continuously, you wouldn't need to leave it installed.

Regarding the location of the bung, it needs to be just downstream of the regular O2 sensor and oriented in such a way that the connector end is point up at least a little above horizontal. Assuming that both banks are running pretty close to each other (you can tell this by reviewing whether or not your O2 voltages stay in the same range (Bank 1 versus Bank 2) then you could flip a coin as to which bank to mount the O2 bung in. Ease of mounting would dictate the choice for me. If the two banks don't agree pretty closely, find out why. You could have a bad injector/plug/plug wire/coil/etc.

Steve

[Steve Bryant]

GMPX,
While I was rattling on as I usually do, you beat me to the draw by a few minutes. When I finished typing and hit submit, I was surprised to see that you had already beat me to the punch.

G'day mate! :lol:

Steve

[AllCammedUp]

Wow - I had no idea that how it worked. All this time I've seen people talk about how they dialed in a 12.6 on the PE table, and I never knew it was that simple.

It isn't 'that' simple.
That dialed in AFR of 12.6 will only be 'real' if injector scaling, VE, blah, blah is set up correctly. The PCM calculates an Injector on time that would give an AFR of 12.6 Based on many other parameters.

Ok, understood. However, just knowing this is helping me out tremendously and makes some other items fall into place.

[AllCammedUp]

Whitney,
Most of the WBO2 units use the Bosch Sensor which is rated at about 50,000 miles by Bosch I believe. In effect, they have about the same useful life as a narrow band oxygen sensor. The key is not to contaminate them with leaded fuel (which isn't available any more) and to make sure that they are not exposed to the exhaust gases without the heater being operative. Essentially, if you are going to leave it installed, it needs to be powered.
Steve

Steve/GMPX,

I was under the (mistaken) impression that the WB02 was something you put in, used and the deinstalled, as I've read people discuss how the lifespan was much shorter than a narrow-band 02. If I was going to go to the trouble of putting it in, I'd want to get as much out of it as possible.

Thanks for clearing this up. Very good info in this thread!

[Steve Bryant]

Whitney,

One of the things that I really like about the EFILive family is the synergy (the whole is greater than the sum of its parts) . . . not that you needed the definition, I just think that it is a wonderful concept)! :D

I have learned way more here than I have contributed and I think that this is almost universally true of everyone who hangs out here.

Sometimes my wife gets frustrated with the amount of time I spend at the computer. But I have told her that it's better than a lot of other places that I could be hanging out. Sometimes this "rational" explanation is accepted with grace and other times with disgust! :cry:

All my best,

Steve

[AllCammedUp]

Whitney,

One of the things that I really like about the EFILive family is the synergy (the whole is greater than the sum of its parts) . . . not that you needed the definition, I just think that it is a wonderful concept)! :D

I have learned way more here than I have contributed and I think that this is almost universally true of everyone who hangs out here.

Sometimes my wife gets frustrated with the amount of time I spend at the computer. But I have told her that it's better than a lot of other places that I could be hanging out. Sometimes this "rational" explanation is accepted with grace and other times with disgust! :cry:

All my best,

Steve

Thanks, Steve! You are right, though... it's amazing what a discussion like this can net for a noob (me) who doesn't know the answers to these questions. Just being able to ask, learn and understand is awesome.

Oh yeah, GMPX, one other question - I notice that in your pic you appear to have the wired display. How exactly are you outputting the voltage that goes to the display into the Flashscan interface and run them both at the same time? Did you wire up your own harness? If so, will Flashscan purchasers have the ability to purchase a comparable harness or have access to documentation to build one?

It's just that if I spring for one of these to put in my car, I'd like to know that I could run the display when I wanted (while I was driving around and listening to the radio or something) and also log it via EFILive w/o having to re-do the wiring to switch from the display to EFILive back to the display, etc.

Thanks again!
Thanks!

[Highlander]

Great read... i like your posts delco!!!!

That would be the correct way to tune... but its really not cost effective... How many hours to tune a car correctly??? i mean... people will not pay what its worth...

On my car what i did was dial in the MAF table most of all since it doesn't use the VE Tables that much (OBDI). It took a while but i got there...

Knowing the injector offsets will make a difference here and there.

[GMPX]

Oh yeah, GMPX, one other question - I notice that in your pic you appear to have the wired display. How exactly are you outputting the voltage that goes to the display into the Flashscan interface and run them both at the same time? Did you wire up your own harness? If so, will Flashscan purchasers have the ability to purchase a comparable harness or have access to documentation to build one?


The PLX unit comes with 4 (long) wires out the back.
+12V, GND, WBO2 Output and Simulated Narrow Band O2 Output.
The wires were long enough that I just ran the corrected WBO2 signal out of the PLX unit over to where it plugs into the Flashscan Interface. (see pic). You will get the small orange connector with the Flashscan unit.

It is in my car only so it is all hardwired in, with the cable from the actual sensor coming through the floor under the foot rest.

http://www.efilive.com/upload/public/GMPX/FS_Harness.jpg
http://www.efilive.com/upload/public/GMPX/FS_Connected.jpg

[GMPX]

That would be the correct way to tune... but its really not cost effective... How many hours to tune a car correctly??? i mean... people will not pay what its worth...


But if it is your own car, then time vs money isn't an issue, right Delco?, how many hours did you put into your tune before you stuck that whining thing on it.
However Highlander you are right, 'most' paying customers wouldn't care if the VE table was correct etc, etc, if it picked up 1/2 second then the job is done right??.

[GMPX]

It's just that if I spring for one of these to put in my car, I'd like to know that I could run the display when I wanted (while I was driving around and listening to the radio or something) and also log it via EFILive w/o having to re-do the wiring to switch from the display to EFILive back to the display, etc.


Oops, never answered that bit.
The display on the PLX operates all the time regardless of what you are doing with EFILive. The update rate is very fast, however, explaining to 'she who must be obeyed' what the heck it is doing isn't so easy. :wink:

[Highlander]

That would be the correct way to tune... but its really not cost effective... How many hours to tune a car correctly??? i mean... people will not pay what its worth...


But if it is your own car, then time vs money isn't an issue, right Delco?, how many hours did you put into your tune before you stuck that whining thing on it.
However Highlander you are right, 'most' paying customers wouldn't care if the VE table was correct etc, etc, if it picked up 1/2 second then the job is done right??.

Exactly.. on mine i dont care... i have spent countless hours.. at first at the dyno and then at night and all that w/o a wideband.. just be stock O2s and by feel of the car... when I strapped it on the dyno my curve was very smooth and it was more or less where it should... but i thought i was running lean since at the dyno there is no "load" unless you are on an eddy and even then its too costly... Still a dyno can't reproduce actual field characteristics...

Anyways... Great read and i cant wait for flashscan.

[AllCammedUp]

Oops, never answered that bit.
The display on the PLX operates all the time regardless of what you are doing with EFILive.

Ok, so the PLX display has the WB02 wire running to it, supplying the 0-5V reading for the display. I take it that the simulated NB02 wire supplies the 0-1V, but the flashscan interface can interpolate the real readings from that or does the NB02 interface supply the same 0-5V readings, as well, in addition to the 0-1?

Sorry for the 'implementation' questions - I'm just trying to get it straight as to how exactly it works. Thanks!


The update rate is very fast, however, explaining to 'she who must be obeyed' what the heck it is doing isn't so easy. :wink:

Herd dat. ;)

[GMPX]

Ok, so the PLX display has the WB02 wire running to it, supplying the 0-5V reading for the display. I take it that the simulated NB02 wire supplies the 0-1V, but the flashscan interface can interpolate the real readings from that or does the NB02 interface supply the same 0-5V readings, as well, in addition to the 0-1?

Sorry for the 'implementation' questions - I'm just trying to get it straight as to how exactly it works. Thanks!


This best explains it, checkout the last page -
http://www.plxdevices.com/InstallationInstructions/M-200_250_300PlugPlay_Install.pdf

[AllCammedUp]

Yep - that explains it. Thanks!

[bink]

Very nice thread.
Hey all! :D
FWIW. Once you run with a Wideband for awhile you will not feel comfortable without it. Kind of like your first oil pressure gauge.

VE Tuning Open Loop/On the MAF - it's time consuming getting the AFRs correct due to the way the PCM uses the info from the MAF below 4000 RPM. But it's very worthwhile. As these guys have said, for a long time, you can create relatively well mannered cars with big cams.

GMPX- I have a new 90 mm TB and I am able to cruise below 2000 RPM :D . At 2000 RPM ( ~60kPa) it surges a bit - if I put my foot in it, it stops surging. Minor irritation I thought was a timing issue and have ignored it for awhile. So I finally scanned it - It's pulling timing just like it did before the new VE table!!! No knock retard. I guess it's dropping off the MAF to the VE table - MAF is reporting leaner?? I'll play with it this weekend and compare the MAF reported g/cyl and the VE calculated g/cyl.

I can't wait till the FlashScan is available to the public!!!!!!!


:cheers: joel

[AllCammedUp]

GMPX,

I take it (near as I can tell) that you are running the M-300, correct? Also, did you have to install any noise filtering device (as mentioned in their install document) in order to successfully log the data w/ Flashscan?

Thanks!

[GMPX]

GMPX- I have a new 90 mm TB and I am able to cruise below 2000 RPM :D . At 2000 RPM ( ~60kPa) it surges a bit - if I put my foot in it, it stops surging. Minor irritation I thought was a timing issue and have ignored it for awhile. So I finally scanned it - It's pulling timing just like it did before the new VE table!!! No knock retard. I guess it's dropping off the MAF to the VE table - MAF is reporting leaner?? I'll play with it this weekend and compare the MAF reported g/cyl and the VE calculated g/cyl.

:cheers: joel

Joel, you are going to love a new function in V7 scantool, that will show you exactly what is going on with the timing, no more guessing what is causing the timing to fluctuate.

Cheers.

[GMPX]

GMPX,

I take it (near as I can tell) that you are running the M-300, correct? Also, did you have to install any noise filtering device (as mentioned in their install document) in order to successfully log the data w/ Flashscan?

Thanks!

Yes I got the M-300, I didn't install the 'noise filters' which are nothing more than some 0.1uF caps. I scoped the signal with an oscilloscope with the car running and it was clean.
The connector used on Flashscan A/D inputs is a screw type termination, so if you had noise issues it's easy to put the wires and cap in if needed.

I suspect that is more for older cars with noisy ignition systems, like an MSD or something like that.

[AllCammedUp]

Yes I got the M-300, I didn't install the 'noise filters' which are nothing more than some 0.1uF caps. I scoped the signal with an oscilloscope with the car running and it was clean.
The connector used on Flashscan A/D inputs is a screw type termination, so if you had noise issues it's easy to put the wires and cap in if needed.

I suspect that is more for older cars with noisy ignition systems, like an MSD or something like that.

OK man, thanks much!!

[AllCammedUp]

Everyone,

Thanks for all the help and info in this thread. I just ordered a PLX M-300 unit and I'm going to hardwire it into my car. I'm chasing a few tuning demons right now, and I don't see the minor outlay in $$ for the PLX unit as anything other than essential to help me get my tune right.

I'm just majorly pumped that Flashscan is going to have the interface to allow me to log this data right in-line with everything else I normally log - what a sweet setup this is gonna be!

[bink]

Joel, you are going to love a new function in V7 scantool, that will show you exactly what is going on with the timing, no more guessing what is causing the timing to fluctuate.

Cheers.

I can't wait to use it. I wish I'd had time to be a good Beta tester :cry: .........oh well.

Thank you for your valuable help! :D


Cheers, joel

[GMPX]

Everyone,

Thanks for all the help and info in this thread. I just ordered a PLX M-300 unit and I'm going to hardwire it into my car. I'm chasing a few tuning demons right now, and I don't see the minor outlay in $$ for the PLX unit as anything other than essential to help me get my tune right.

I'm just majorly pumped that Flashscan is going to have the interface to allow me to log this data right in-line with everything else I normally log - what a sweet setup this is gonna be!

Good choice, you won't know how you ever lived without one.
What I did find in testing with that unit is the NBO2 simulated signal from the PLX unit is spot on to how the real NBO2 is on the car, so....if you did want to remove your NBO2 and replace it with the WBO2, you could then quite confidently run the simulated NBO2 signal out of the PLX controller into the PCM as that banks NBO2 sensor output. It would take some messing around with wiring, it just depends how confident you are with that side of things.

Cheers,
Ross

[AllCammedUp]

Good choice, you won't know how you ever lived without one.
What I did find in testing with that unit is the NBO2 simulated signal from the PLX unit is spot on to how the real NBO2 is on the car, so....if you did want to remove your NBO2 and replace it with the WBO2, you could then quite confidently run the simulated NBO2 signal out of the PLX controller into the PCM as that banks NBO2 sensor output. It would take some messing around with wiring, it just depends how confident you are with that side of things.

Cheers,
Ross

Thanks Ross. You know, I've been thinking about doing that. It would be the best way to go - I'm sure. I just wish there was a way for me to hook into the harness that the stock NB02 is using. Would it be viable to splice into the signal wire there? I'm just thinking out loud.

What I'm really wanting to do is to put the controller in my glove box (or somewhere else out of sight) and then run the controller output to a AFR gauge in the A-pillar and the flashscan interface. This way, I can run a switch inline w/ the gauge and turn it off when I don't want to look at the constantly oscillating numbers on the gauge (like when driving at night) or something similar.

[Steve Bryant]

Whitney,

If I get a little time this week, I'll cook-up an adapter harness diagram and instructions whereby you can interface the WBO2 with your existing factory narrow band O2 harness without splicing and you can return it to stock at time of sale. This will involve buying and cutting up an old NBO2 sensor to use as a mating plug. I am getting ready to go out of town for about 10 days and I'm working long days at work right now. If I don't get it done by this Thursday, I'll get it done as soon as I get back. I think that I will paste the diagram into MS Word with a step by step description of the tasks.

Steve

[AllCammedUp]

Whitney,

If I get a little time this week, I'll cook-up an adapter harness diagram and instructions whereby you can interface the WBO2 with your existing factory narrow band O2 harness without splicing and you can return it to stock at time of sale. This will involve buying and cutting up an old NBO2 sensor to use as a mating plug. I am getting ready to go out of town for about 10 days and I'm working long days at work right now. If I don't get it done by this Thursday, I'll get it done as soon as I get back. I think that I will paste the diagram into MS Word with a step by step description of the tasks.

Steve

Good Gravy, Steve - if you could do that, I'd UPS you a couple of cases of your favorite brew! This would work out great, as I do have a spare NB02 sensor lying around in a box in garage, so I could definitely hack it up. In addition, you'd be doing the entire community a great service, as it would simplify installation a great deal and make the entire setup very clean and easily maintained. I'm just not the best in electronic wiring, so if I had something that was 'known good' to go by, it would make the whole process so much easier.

Here's why I'm asking - I currently have off-road pipes instead of cats w/ my headers. As such, there are two places for air leaks between the primary and secondary NB02 sensors. I'm concerned that if I use the secondary NB02 bung for the WB02, I'll get excess air and a false reading. I've got the ORP's installed as tightly as possible, and I don't have any leaks, but that doesn't mean I'm getting the best reading I could. If I could install the WB02 in place of the primary NB02, I could be guaranteed a good signal and not have to weld in a bung (and ruin the coating on the headers or take one of them out of the car (a MAJOR pain on the 'vette due to clearance, etc.)

Man, this would be awesome. Thanks!!

[Dirk Diggler]

I am curious also as i have an FJO unit arriving later this week and wouldnt mind using the WBO2 as a narrow band.

[Steve Bryant]

I e-mailed the diagram illustrating my proposed installation to Blacky/GMPX/MRK last night. Tonight I hope to incorporate any changes they have and writeup some installation instructions so the concept can be available for everyone. I've tried to make it generic so that any brand of WBO2 controller with acceptable outputs will work. My design uses the heater element of an old NBO2 sensor instead of a load resistor. The sensor is simply attached with a hose clamp adjacent to the O2 bung and plugged into the sensor connector leading to the PCM. The NBO2 sensor element wires are cut and spliced to the emulated NBO2 output from the WBO2 controller. The whole thing can be removed without a trace when desired depending on where/how the controller/display is mounted.

All my best,

Steve

[AllCammedUp]

Steve,

Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together. You are doing the tuning community a great service - this is going to make owning a WB much more attractive to EFILive users!

[Steve Bryant]

Ross is going to post my preliminary schematic/illustration so everyone can get an idea of the concept. Then, I plan to do an installation in my own vehicle in the near future, take pictures of the installation and write up the narrative which could be a down-loadable adobe acrobat document.

All my best,

Steve

[GMPX]

Steve,

I'll get Paul to do it, I don't want to put things in the wrong directories etc.

Cheers,
Ross

[AllCammedUp]

Thanks guys!!

[Blacky]

Thanks for the document Steve - looks very good.

It is hosted here:
http://www.efilive.com/doc/index.html
(bottom of page)

You really should put your name in the document as the author - unless you want to remain anon. I like to make sure contributors are recognised.

Regards
Paul

[Steve Bryant]

Paul,
I'll be glad to add my name a little later. I want to flesh out the information, clean up the illustration and add instructons with pictures of an actual installation. That way, people can have a good reference to go by and they won't butcher their vehicle.

This was something quick and dirty that I put together just to give people the idea of how it could be done without violating the integrity of their vehicle wiring harness and without mounting a resistor somewhere. Most people can probably get an old NBO2 sensor with a good heater for next to nothing and it has a proper connector, etc.

All my best,

Steve

[AllCammedUp]

Paul,
I'll be glad to add my name a little later. I want to flesh out the information, clean up the illustration and add instructons with pictures of an actual installation. That way, people can have a good reference to go by and they won't butcher their vehicle.

This was something quick and dirty that I put together just to give people the idea of how it could be done without violating the integrity of their vehicle wiring harness and without mounting a resistor somewhere. Most people can probably get an old NBO2 sensor with a good heater for next to nothing and it has a proper connector, etc.

All my best,

Steve

Most excellent Steve - thanks a ton! This really helps to show what to do. After lookin at it, I'd think that about the only thing I would change is where I mounted the old NB02 sensor. I know the options are limited, but I'd think it might rattle pretty bad being mounted on the pipe. I'll have to look around and see what I can find.

If you are going to walk through an installation (w/ pics) then this will become a first-rate reference!

Thank you for taking the time to draw this out!

[Steve Bryant]

Whitney,
I understand your thought on this and I considered rattles, vibration and security of the NBO2 sensor when I made the recommendation. Here are my thoughts. The NBO2 will get hot because of the electrical current flowing through the heater circuit, but that's OK since it's designed to get hot and dissipate the heat. Your concern about rattles is very valid. Especially after some heat/cooling cycles and the hose clamp may not be as tight as it once was. However, I think that it would be better to install the NBO2 on the exhaust pipe and tighten the hose clamp moderately, come back in a week or two and re-tighten the clamp. If it doesn't rattle, all is well. If it does rattle (or even initially if you want) add a second hose clamp across the threaded area. The hexagon and the threaded part are the strongest areas structurally for clamping and resistance to crushing something you don't want crushed inside. Note, tighten these clamps securely, but don't torque them like there's no tomorrow. The sensor only needs to be good and snug against the pipe.

If you want to mount it elsewhere or buy a load resistor, that's fine too. But I think that this idea will prove to work fine.

Steve

Comments are always welcome! :)
Additional points of view are a good thing!

[GMPX]

How about getting an exhaust shop to weld a bung on the outside (not into the pipe) so the sensor screws into it and is safe and sound.

The 03/04 PCM can measure O2 heater performance, so using a real O2 sensor might be very critical.

Cheers.

[Steve Bryant]

Ross,
That's a good idea too! You just need to consider clearances no matter how it is done!

Steve

[AllCammedUp]

Yeah, this is something that I'm going to have to put the car on jackstands, crawl under it, and see what my options are. I'll let you all know what I find out, but I'll go your suggestion, Steve, to see how it works. However, I'll probably have to wind up doing what Ross mentions if I have any problems.

Thanks guys - this is great!!

[SinisterSS]

With regards to the wideband O2 sensor, I'm having a set of headers made for the LS6 in my CTS-V and was wondering if I should just have the company building the headers weld in a second bung on the collector?

If so, should I have bungs welded on both headers? Any particular spacing away from the "normal" sensor location or perhaps rotated 90 degrees apart or ???

Could I use a pipe plug (or a bolt, etc.) with some anti-sieze on it for the times I don't have the wideband sensor threaded in?

[Steve Bryant]

Richard,

You can buy bungs with plugs from several sources, just do a search. Also, if you're having custom made headers, I'll bet the header shop can supply the bungs with plugs (18 X 1.5 mm thread I believe). If I were going to have someone custom-make headers, I'd have a bung installed in the right and left bank. Locate them in a convenient place for clearance of the WBO2 and ease of installation and removal. They should be within probably five inches or so downstream of the NBO2 sensors. The sensor should project upward (above the horizontal).

Steve

[VortechC5]

Will the Innovate LM-1 work with EFILive V7/FlashScan? If not which wideband should I be looking at?

[Dirk Diggler]

Yes it will work

[VortechC5]

Thanks!


Yes it will work