LC-1 air exposure

[stigmundfreud]

This may sound like a stupid question but I'm at a loss, replies are slow on the innovative site so hoping someone here can help.


My LC-1 keeps throwing Error 8, and has been recalibrated a few times. I've even just installed a new sensor and get the same problem. It happens sometimes after ages sometimes after start up so I doubt it be over heating.

I noticed when I did a calibration on the old sensor it would take a long time to warm up - it would hang around 63% for ages then start up (this obviously with the engine off)

The new sensor calibrated quickly when I had it in the drivers compartment but when I installed it into the exhaust and tidied everything up I got the same hanging around 63% of the warm up.

I see on the documentation that the back of the lc-1 needs to be exposed to air. Now here is the stupid question. what part exactly needs to be exposed? I'd have thought i would be obvious that when installed in the exhaust the cable is exposed BUT I have got my controller inside the car.

Effectively I plug the LC-1 into the controller which is under the center console then drop it through the transmission tunnel to then locate in the exhaust.

This clearly has the cable exposed BUT importantly the connection is inside teh car and this is where the bear wires are. Do the bare exposed wires at the connector provide the clean air sample?

As the controller is tidied away inside teh console it could account for why it all seems to work fine when everything is in the open but as soon as it is tidied up it takes ages.

Ideas?

[stigmundfreud]

ok update, may as well do this in case anyone else happens upon this

I just did a recaibration and it now warms up faster than ever, I've set the sample rate to 1/12 of a second to smooth out any jitters - recalibrated the scan tool AD port to account for some signal drop off due to the connectors I've used and hopefully not to tempt fate it was stable.

Only the next few test runs will tell. Hope to get the VE sorted for MAF by this weekend as I cannot be arsed accounting for change in atmospheric pressure coming into winter etc on an SD tune!

[2002_z28_six_speed]

I don't have the manual in front of me but isn't error 8 caused by too low of voltage?

[stigmundfreud]

no thats nine, E8 is a timing issue usually fixed by a heater recalibration which worked thankfully for me this time.

Interestingly when my laptop is plugged into the scan tool it records 1afr higher than when it is also plugged into the log works. I find if my USB is plugged into both the controller and the scan tool then EFI records the AFR accurately but if I'm only plugged into the scan tool it reads a little leaner.

I can only put that down to when I did my analog port calibration that the draw on the usb port effected it.

[Garry]

Had a weird Error-8-problem today, too ... I wanted to recalibrate the sensor, as the car was pouring in fuel last time I drove it and the NB-output of the WB was reading lean all the time ... anyway, I had my V2 connected (serial), and it kept saying it was heating up ... % went to around 80%, after a short delay there, it would throw error 8 ... tried multiple times, couldn't get it to work ... until I fired up the engine ... after that it seemed to work correctly, but of course I couldn't do the free-air calibrate ... I will see if it does it again next time ... :(

[mr.prick]

There is a firmware update that reduces the warm up time.

[Garry]

Wasn't there some issue with LC1 firmware updates at some point?

[mr.prick]

I haven't had any problem with it,
but then again I have never had a problem with the LC1 controller.

[stigmundfreud]

Wasn't there some issue with LC1 firmware updates at some point?

I upgraded to the latest firmware, still had issues eventually the LC-1 would just throw random 08 errors. Reverted back to the original Firmware and never had a problem.

There is certainly a quality control issue with these bits of kit. Worked great with the digital feed for the V2 once it was stable

[Chevy366]

Only thing I saw with the LC-1 1.10v (newest) firmware is that it is a tad more responsive in Analog , but I use Digital with the V2 so no problem there .
I get error code 4 every once in a while , recycle power to (turn key off , then on) the controller and all is well . Biggest thing with LC-1 , Engine Ground , Engine Ground , and not to chassis .
Note , with 1.10v firmware after having problems , I was told (by Klaus) to remove the wide-band , power on the controller unit (20 seconds , which resets unit) , turn off and then replace wide-band and power up again (do free air calibration) , worked .

[2002_z28_six_speed]

Explain the rationale in the engine ground on a low powered device such as the LC1

[Chevy366]

Explain the rationale in the engine ground on a low powered device such as the LC1

The way Klaus (I don't know the guy , just post on Innovate site) explained it to me was , chassis ground can cause a offset and a drop in voltage as well , so either ground to engine , where LC-1 is installed as well or (-) negative terminal of battery , but still engine is preferable .

[mr.prick]

Explain the rationale in the engine ground on a low powered device such as the LC1

It's an excuse because so many people have issues with the LC1.
I find it odd that the LC1 is so frequently villainized yet the more expensive
LM1/LM2 have fewer problems.

IMO the people installing the cheaper controller tend to be first timers or
novices in general.

Maybe I'm just cocky because my LC1 works flawlessly.

[Chevy366]

It's an excuse because so many people have issues with the LC1.
I find it odd that the LC1 is so frequently villainized yet the more expensive
LM1/LM2 have fewer problems.

IMO the people installing the cheaper controller tend to be first timers or
novices in general.

Maybe I'm just cocky because my LC1 works flawlessly.

And to top it off Installation Instructions are not that great .
They say the 1.10v firmware has a ground safety factor in it that tries to prevent grounding accidents , seems a bad ground will burn out heater diode (error 8) .
So I hear !

[mr.prick]

I agree the instructions can be a little confusing.
What I did was replace one of my NBO2's with the LC1.

It gets power and ground directly from the PCM.
If there was some way the LC1 can get damaged by this,
I assume my PCM would also be "bricked" or my stereo fried.

[Garry]

Well, after having the car standing for a good week, I turned it back on - same effect again, error 8, tried multiple time, after starting the motor once (and turning it back off), no error 8 anymore ...

Anyway, I keep getting insanely lean results from the WB - all the way up to 40 and more according to the display on my V2 ... while at the same time I can smell it's rich ... so, is my sensor shot?

[joecar]

How old are your LSU4.2 sensors...?

[mr.prick]

Well, after having the car standing for a good week, I turned it back on - same effect again, error 8, tried multiple time, after starting the motor once (and turning it back off), no error 8 anymore ...

Anyway, I keep getting insanely lean results from the WB - all the way up to 40 and more according to the display on my V2 ... while at the same time I can smell it's rich ... so, is my sensor shot?

Your sensor maybe shot.
They can read ine at idle or cruise but increasing TPS% will show crazy lean.
Also lean and rich smell very similar, the trick is to listen.
Lean will sound accelerated like the engine is panting/gasping.
Rich will sound muffled/choked.

[Garry]

How old are your LSU4.2 sensors...?
2 1/2 years (with the car only driven in the summer) ... it was still working fine last fall ...

[Garry]

On a side note - I'm running SD, so shouldn't the AFR be pretty close to desired value, even with the WB being way off the chart?

[mr.prick]

On a side note - I'm running SD, so shouldn't the AFR be pretty close to desired value, even with the WB being way off the chart?

Yes,
but if your WBO2 is not working or configured right how will you know? http://smiliesftw.com/x/lame.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[Garry]

True, if the motor hadn't been tuned to +-1% before ... and it's still on the same tune ...

[jorge]

I have had my LC-1 for a year working flawlessly and about two weeks ago it also stared to give me error8 codes. Emailed Innovate and I was told it was the sensor. I dont understand these sensors work for years in wolkswagen.

[mr.prick]

I've had 2 sensors die after a year,
probably because of rich open loop AFR.

[joecar]

If they overheat the ceramic cracks, like mine did last summer in stopped freeway traffic (which LA is [in]famous for) on 105F day... Error 8.