What makes the 98-00 PCM "so bad"?

[N0DIH]

I am thinking of swapping the PCM on my 99 K2500 Burb to a 0411, but wonder if the 98-00's are really that bad? Nothing can be much worse than my 99's 98-00 Vortec VCM can it?

I am not planning on custom OS's, just daily driving a 454 with a 4L80E. I am thinking of using the L21 front cover and crank sensor if I can install it without removing crank to put on wheel...

[98ls1blackbird]

Don't know about the burbs, but in the LS1 F bodies the 99 and up pcm's are the good ones. The 98's have the lower resolution in the ve tables and will not accept custom operating systems. Sorry not much help.

[N0DIH]

Maybe I missed the years, 97-98...

Just wondering if they are worth using at all. I don't really need custom OS on the burb, just wondering if it is worth using the 98-99 PCM and EFILive (looking to get soon) in my Burb vs using a 99-up PCM....

[ScarabEpic22]

I would go for an 0411 swap if you do it, basically you can get finer control of your engine from what I understand.

[ringram]

I think there is info on here about the swap. Changing pinouts on the connectors plus a couple of other little issues. But the guys who have done it say its well worth it.

[N0DIH]

That is what I have heard, 4 hours of work or so. I was just thinking if the 97-98 isn't THAT bad, (I don't need custom OS, it is a truck 454 mostly all stock, not like I am racing it....) and I wouldn't blow away a VIN license for using EFILive on it.

Honestly, strictly financial in motives... But if there is enough good reason to use the 0411, then I would just go that way, just trying to be financially concious in this day....

[ScarabEpic22]

Im pretty sure you'll blow a VIN license either way, only the 97-98 LS1s are free, all the Vortecs need to be licensed.

[hquick]

And....you can't tune the black box 'truck' (Vortec) PCM's with EFILive from what I understand anyway.

[N0DIH]

They 98-00's are supported now, for about a year or so...

The 96-97's aren't, but the 98-00's are....


And....you can't tune the black box 'truck' (Vortec) PCM's with EFILive from what I understand anyway.

Vortec 98-00 PCM - Stream S-VORB
V8 SUV's
99-00 Cadillac Escalade 5.7L
98-00 GMC Yukon 5.7L
98-00 Chevy Tahoe 5.7L
98-99 Chevy/GMC C/K 1500 Suburban 5.7L
98-99 Chevy/GMC C/K 2500 Suburban 5.7L, 7.4L
V6 SUV's
98-00 Oldsmobile Bravada 4.3L
98-00 GMC Jimmy 4.3L
98-00 Chevy Blazer 4.3L
V8 Trucks
98-99 Chevy/GMC C/K 1500 5.0L, 5.7L
98-99 Chevy/GMC C/K 2500 5.0L
98-00 Chevy/GMC C/K 2500, C/K 3500 5.7L, 7.4L
98-00 Chevy P30 5.7L, 7.4L
98-00 GMC P35 5.7L, 7.4L
V6 Trucks
98-00 Chevy S-10 4.3L
98-00 GMC Sonoma 4.3L
98-99 Chevy/GMC C/K 1500 4.3L
99-00 Chevy Silverado 1500 4.3L
99-00 GMC Sierra 1500 4.3L
V8 Vans
98-00 Chevy Express 5.7L, 7.4L
98-99 Chevy Express 5.0L
98-00 GMC Savana 5.7L, 7.4L
98-99 GMC Savana 5.0L
V6 Vans
98-00 Chevy Express 4.3L
98-00 GMC Savana 4.3L
98-00 Chevy Astro 4.3L
98-00 GMC Safari 4.3L
98-00 Chevy P30 4.3L
98-00 GMC P35 4.3L

[hquick]

But only with V2 right?

[N0DIH]

Yes, V2 only....

Good point....

[njc.corp]

Don't know about the burbs, but in the LS1 F bodies the 99 and up pcm's are the good ones. The 98's have the lower resolution in the ve tables and will not accept custom operating systems. Sorry not much help.


Plain as simple has that?

Nick--

[Lextech]

I think that the 0411 swap is an excellent upgrade, even on a stock engine. The truck will run smoother and the trans also works better. I don't know why--Probably because the processor is twice as fast. I think it is one of the best mods going. You can upgrade to the 0411 with used parts for under 100.00

Jeff

[hquick]

From the GOD of 0411's himself! :master: :master:

(for those who don't know...Jeff made the 0411 swap possible for all of us truck guys)

;)

Howard

[joecar]

It's not that the '97/'98 LS1 PCM is bad...
It only allows thes '97/'98 LS1 OS's...
'97/'98 LS1 OS's have two VE tables (of which the low resolution Backup VE table is active during [SD] AutoVE tuning), and are missing various other tables, making tuning not quite as easy; they are "feature-limited".

The later PCM's allow various OS's which have the single VE table and the various features, and they allow the various custom OS's (which have boost/nitrous/throttle VE tables).

The later PCM's allow nicer-to-work-with OS's.

But the '97/'98 OS still work, and people are still making power with them.

[N0DIH]

Did the early NBS Trucks with the Gen III v8's (4.8L/5.3L/6.0L) have the same as the 97-98 LS1 PCM?

[ScarabEpic22]

Dont think so, pretty sure they used 99+ LS1 PCMs.

[Chevy366]

Had a guy bring me a 89 Chevy truck with a 98 454 in it with Painless wiring harness , has a MIL light on , scan of the PCM shows P0xxx code for the O2 sensors , tried reading the PCM tune to turn off the MILs and it would not read .
The PCM must be locked , kept rejecting boot loader , I tried a discover PCM VIN data , it said "read already don" for VIN and the rest were zeros , so someone locked it (PCM was purchased form local Dealership) .
So , I wanted to see the difference in a 98 PCM versus what I tune most of the time (02+) , but could not .

[N0DIH]

Are the 97-98 LS1 PCM's considered the 512k PCM's and the 99-up 1MB?

Is there any resource that shows what PCM's are which? I don't know the "language" of the difference versions (E40, E38, etc) and what significant differences.

I am looking at a RR PCM, and there are a few flavors to purchase. I am looking for one that works like the 0411 PCM??

[Chevy366]

Are the 97-98 LS1 PCM's considered the 512k PCM's and the 99-up 1MB?

Is there any resource that shows what PCM's are which? I don't know the "language" of the difference versions (E40, E38, etc) and what significant differences.

I am looking at a RR PCM, and there are a few flavors to purchase. I am looking for one that works like the 0411 PCM??
512 until 2003 then 1mb.

[hquick]

TunedbyGM....did you want to see the difference in the type of tune?
Have a look at a 98 Burb compared with the 2002 Express van (base file we use for the swap). You'll see there are ALOT more tables available in the 2002. They both use the same motor and trans...only difference is the PCM.

[hquick]

Top one is 2002 Express van (my base tune).

[N0DIH]

Is it going to be possible to use a RR on the L30/L31/L29 with a 0411 swap?

Or do I need to add a 24x crank sensor and go CNP and use a Gen III program?

[hquick]

I'm using a RR at present Mick (aka AussieLS1evil) posted his down to me to help getting my VE in line (thanks Mick :cheers: )...so...yes....you will be able to use it with an L31 and 0411 swap.

[dc_justin]

Are the 97-98 LS1 PCM's considered the 512k PCM's and the 99-up 1MB?

Is there any resource that shows what PCM's are which? I don't know the "language" of the difference versions (E40, E38, etc) and what significant differences.

I am looking at a RR PCM, and there are a few flavors to purchase. I am looking for one that works like the 0411 PCM??

PCM Types:

98-00 Gen-I Vortec, 4.3L - "Black Box" PCM - 512Kb, requires V2 to tune, V1 can log
97-98 LS1 - 512Kb
99-02 (03 Vette) (4.8,5.3,5.7,6.0,8.1), 01-02 4.3L - Blue / Red connector, interchangeable amongst each other
03-07 (Classic) trucks/suvs, 04 LS1/LS6 cars - Blue / Green connector, interchangeable amongst each other

Check the streams supported vehicles page for the breakout of different controller types.

Justin

[N0DIH]

Thing is I am taking the L31 tune one step farther, L29. 454. Electrically very similar, but some significant wiring differences (injectors mainly, no spider injection in a L29). They both don't use CNP, they use conventional distributors. They don't have crankshaft sensors (L21 454's DO, and DO have CNP ignition, and those parts CAN be fitted to a L29, but honestly, in this weather I am not getting into it.... we have a foot or better of snow on the ground as of today...those trucks we think use the marine PCM, but not for sure, it is the RV and Medium Duty truck engine/pcm)

So my goal is to use the RR with a L31 tune on a L29 454... How does the RR work? Does it matter what OS/Tune is in it? As long as it works with that PCM, then RR functionality is good to go?

[Chevy366]

TunedbyGM....did you want to see the difference in the type of tune?
Have a look at a 98 Burb compared with the 2002 Express van (base file we use for the swap). You'll see there are ALOT more tables available in the 2002. They both use the same motor and trans...only difference is the PCM.
Yes I do , thanks . :cheers:
I'm going to do a tune for the guy , and I'm trying to talk him into doing a PCM swap .

Wow , the 98 looks like something that is unfinished , compared to the 02 . :nixweiss: