When is an E40 not an E40????

[ssvolvo]

Hi,
I have a bunch of E40s kicking around. Can I take one from an 05 (24X wheel) and have the dealer full flash for an 06(58X wheel)?
I'm in need of finding a starting point for my "mismatch" of parts.
Please bear with me...I'm not too friggin' intelligent.


Thanks, John

[joecar]

Ttt

[ssvolvo]

Geez that's a nice reply.

[Blacky]

TTT simply means "To The Top", which causes the thread to sit at the top of the list of posts. It was just Joe's way of bringing attention to your post. And it worked, I saw it because it was at the top of the list.

I don't know the answer to you question but I've asked Ross (aka GMPX) to take a look.

Regards
Paul

[GMPX]

John, I don't think the E40 was ever used on a 24x application, even in 05.

Cheers,
Ross

[ssvolvo]

Ok,
Like texting sort of, all new to me.
Please bear with me. I am quite persistant and need to get to the bottom of my problem. I have installed an LH6 in a vehicle that the hood would not clear so replaced the intake, Throttle body and APP sensor (pedal) from an 06 GTO LS2 (all new). The E40 fron the LH6 will start and idle but no throttle. Obviously the resistance measurments are 2600 ohms different from the truck APP. If I install the truck APP sensor(pedal) the throttle works fine. I really want to use the GTO APP pedal in this vehicle. So I have bought 2 more licenses and deleted the VATS in TWO GTO E40s. One is from an auto and 1 from a stick. Please keep in mind that I have set G1204:NO, G1206:NO, G1210:TYPE 3. Also applied the VATS patch with a full flash but left the GTO OS intact. Yet the vehicle will not crank with either of these GTO ECMs.
Please keep in mind that all of the sensors on the engine with the exception of DOD are the same; I feel this thing should crank and run but I keep getting a code for P1629 anti-theft.
Because EFIlive does not recommend a full flash I have purchased a Re-flash harness and my local Chev dealer can reflash these 2 E40 ECMs but I'm just not sure of my next step. I did manage to talk to John at Speartech (truly a patient man) and he did mention that some of the ECMs in the DOD Impalas are not E40s but look just like them.


Thanks for any insight....REALLY, John


ps. my next call should be to Ann Landers! or maybe Dr. Phil

[ScarabEpic22]

John, I don't think the E40 was ever used on a 24x application, even in 05.

Cheers,
Ross

I think the 06 TB SS uses a 24x reluctor, and I know it uses the E40. What about the 5.3L LH6 out of the GMT360s (aka TrailBlazer/Envoy), pretty dang sure they use the E40 for 05-06.

[4DRSS]

John, I don't think the E40 was ever used on a 24x application, even in 05.

Cheers,
Ross

Yes, on the 2006 trailblazer SS it does.. Mine has the E40 w/24 tooth reluctor wheel. :cheers:

[joecar]

Does that mean there's a parameter for 24/58 reluctor selection...?

I wonder if the other PCM's/OS's would have that...?

[4DRSS]

^^ I just looked, didnt see it anywhere..

[joecar]

^^^ I mean parameters that are not published. ;)

[ssvolvo]

Well the 05 GTO and 06 GTO definately use a complete different OS. The crankshaft part # for both years is #12570249. The reluctor wheel is not replaceable; this tells me they are both 58X. This # was verified in Alldata and local GM dealer. So why the different OS.?
Even IF I could make a GTO E40 work on this LH6 (with GTO throttle parts) it might not work the DOD(dead on demand) function. Could be part of the OS in the LH6 ECM.
On another note. Why won't the GTO E40 allow the LH6 to start(crank)?
I did leave the LH6 T42 in the harness with the GTO E40 while trying to start the engine. Maybe I will try tonight with the T42 from the GTO.


Hey Joe thanks for the ttttttttttttip! Ignorance is bliss.
John

[joecar]

No worries... :cheers:

if I don't know the answer I'll bump the thread TTT so it's seen first.

[GMPX]

Yes, on the 2006 trailblazer SS it does.. Mine has the E40 w/24 tooth reluctor wheel. :cheers:

Really truely, really truely?, you guys aren't joking here right?
I don't claim to be any authority on what GM do with engines, but I thought ALL Gen-IV based motors were 58x.

Cheers,
Ross

[GMPX]

John,

I'm not so sure this mix/match of parts is ever going to work correctly.
The problem you have is the GTO throttle control is all based on a GTO throttle/pedal combo, same goes for the LH6. It's really no different to the older GenIII engines having a different TAC (Throttle Actuator Controller) based on the platform it was on. Though, on the E40 the TAC was built in to the ECM.

As far as the operating system differences, generally different years won't stop an engine running, some things might not work as they should, eg maybe the A/C system changed between different years and GM had to make changes to compensate. For example quite often on GenIII motors people put the later operating sytems in earlier PCM's (flash a 2002 OS in to a 2000).

With the GTO programs DOD will not work.

Is there simply no possible way to fit the LH6 throttle etc?

Cheers,
Ross

[minytrker]

Really truely, really truely?, you guys aren't joking here right?
I don't claim to be any authority on what GM do with engines, but I thought ALL Gen-IV based motors were 58x.

Cheers,
Ross

My 06 TBSS was a 24x also, I swapped everything over to 07 and 58x (very log stoy). I also bought several 06 TBSS motors for swpas and they were all 24x.

[ssvolvo]

As the great swapper swamee once said: "mix and match and you shall see, it won't work as it's supposed to be".
My goal with this vehicle was to run this LH6 for one summer until the LS2 stuff came down in price, then add a small turbo underneath the car. It's becoming more apparent that I'll need to swap all Electronics over once I do that. Also learning the DOD and AFM(another friggin mistake) stuff has avery limited redline and lifters break easily.
We have an 06 GTO (wife's ride) that I can fool with also. I did some data logging last night and realize that if I want the GTO TB then I need ALL GTO everything else. Even the LH6 TB has a tad different TPS values. The truck pedal and E40 will not open the GTO throttle blade quite all the way. And to boot the truck TB blade opens in reverse of the GTO blade. I don't know if this will pose a problem or not. Anyway I have all the pedals, connectors so the eventual swap should go ok, as I can pull the entire engine/trans out of the car in about an hour(all down through the bottom).
I AM FLOORED! I just can't believe that I'm the only one who has ever tried this. VERY little info coming up on the net about this. Most of the wiring swap guys I've talked to tell me you should be able to swap TBs, pedals ok but now we know.


I'm not very sharp evn though I live on the "edge" of town!

Thanks, John

[joecar]

...
I just can't believe that I'm the only one who has ever tried this. VERY little info coming up on the net about this.
...That tells you how common this swap is (it isn't), and you can see why, there's a technology curve to overcome.
Looks like you are the guru for this type of swap. :cheers:

[4DRSS]

Really truely, really truely?, you guys aren't joking here right?
I don't claim to be any authority on what GM do with engines, but I thought ALL Gen-IV based motors were 58x.

Cheers,
Ross

Ross, Im not joking.. The 2006 TBSS had a 24x with the E40 pcm... I guess the old saying is true, you learn somthing new every day..:D

[GMPX]

Yes, very true :redface: :redface:

[burtoncr]

I am 99.9999% positive that all E40 PCMs used 24x reluctors. The most common place I see the rumor of a 58x reluctor is on the GTO forums.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201944&highlight=reluctor
the last post is a good rule of thumb.

[ssvolvo]

Well surely now I believe you are correct. While purchasing a stand-alone flash cable I asked John at Speartech. He says any 58Xreluctor engines he has seen have gray (not black) crank senders. Both my 06 GTO and LH6 engines have black sensors for the crank pickup.

Also earlier in this post I said: Well the 05 GTO and 06 GTO definately use a complete different OS. The crankshaft part # for both years is #12570249. The reluctor wheel is not replaceable; this tells me they are both 58X.


What I meant was that the reluctor wheel is NOT available as a serviceable item from GM.

We should call Dick Hurtz from Holden and see what he says!!!:grin:

That's all, John