2000 to 2002 cos5 auto VE problem

[RandyWS6]

Ive been doing some logging and have a problem with vilent bucking from off idle (But idles fine) but when i pull out and up to 2400 rpm it bucks vilently ,this is a M6 car, But above 2500 rpm it runs fine, but i can put my 2000 tune back in and run fine threw all rpms. can some body look at my log and COS5 tune and see if there is any thing wrong in the low rpm range. if i could get rid of the bucking i could get my auto ve tune done. In the log you can see the WB oscillating from 12.0 to 19.0 ,it bucks so hard it jerks my foot off the throttle. Here is a snap shot of the log were it shows the bucking ,this pic is fron the same tune that i have posted up here.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/RandyWS6/vetune.jpg

[joecar]

Hi Randy,

I'm not sure what is causing the bucking, but there are a few other problems that need to be addressed:

Fix the out of range parameters:
A0007
A0009
A0010
A0015
A0016

For AutoVe, set B4205 to 284F.

Set P0101, P0102, P0103 in C6001 to Non Emissions because you still want a DTC reported since this is how the PCM knows to failover to VE table exclusively (and ignore the MAF). Check that you get one of those 3 DTC's... if you don't, then the PCM is not in SD mode (which means you can't do AutoVE).

Set the last 3 columns in B3647 a little richer (to AFR 12.6) and smoothly ramp to there from the flat part of the table (i.e. no steep step).

B0101 looks bad, you'll have to start again, use stock B0101 and increase by 15%.

Also, check that your wideband is reading correctly.

Cheers,
Joe
:)

[RandyWS6]

I will need to make the changes on the A0007 and others, even if i don't have the Red-J2, pin 56. installed ?

[RandyWS6]

On the BO101 i used a stock 2002 ZO6 VE table and had to raise it 75% to get my engine running, My engine is not near stock, Its a LS2 418cid. the cam is a crane 250/266-651/651-112 ,heads are dart pro1, 255cc, 2.100 int.valves and Fast 90/90 intake plus a lot more. 15% on the VE will not even try to start my car. I kept increase my ve be 20% till it started and run ,my WB is showing between 14.0 to 16.0 . and whats the best way to check a WB to see if its reading right ? I've use the propane method ,by turning on a propane torch but no lighting it just use the gas and move it over the WBo2 sensor, and it goes rich instantly.

[RandyWS6]

How does this look, And is my auto VE setup right ?

[joecar]

I will need to make the changes on the A0007 and others, even if i don't have the Red-J2, pin 56. installed ?Yes, it's a good idea since the OS reads it and processes anyway regardless of Red-J2-56.

:w00t: lol... Andrew's selection of emoticons is funny...

[Tordne]

Yes, it's a good idea since the OS reads it and processes anyway regardless of Red-J2-56.

:w00t: lol... Andrew's selection of emoticons is funny...

What, you don't like them?

[joecar]

What, you don't like them?Yea I do like them, thanks... :cheers: :rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao:

[TAQuickness]

Hi Randy - It sounds quite excessive that you'd have to add 75% to your table to get the engine running.

Since you can put the 2000 tune in and the engine will run, I would suggest to a table-by-table copy from the 2000 to COS5, the start at the top of the AutoVE tutorial. It might take you a few hours to complete this, but I think you'll be much happier with the results.

[RandyWS6]

Im new at this, but when i changed over to the 2002os the engine run fine, but my IFR was way off for the COS5 autoVE,so i had to recalibrate it and now the IFR is right, but way lean, so i had to raise the VE table to compensate for it, Could the COS5 have any thing to do with this. what should should i set the parameters:A0007, A0009, A0010, A0015, A0016,To keep them neutral. or cause no interference. In my 2000 tune , i used the IFR to add fuel to my car. I know this was not right but i didnt know any outher way of doing it at the time ,But A.J. (whytryz06) has been helping me learn the right way to tune over the phone. The engine is running and been doing autoVE logs. The bucking has stopped sense I raise the B4205 to 284F. Thanks joecar.

[TAQuickness]

Sounds like there's a lot going on and it might be good to start at square 1.

Save a copy of all the tunes you have and burn it to CD or removable media.

Square 1: Download and full flash this tune (http://www.holdencrazy.com/EFILive/TuneFileRepository/Modified/Chevrolet/00000020.tun)*. It's a stock '99 M6 Camaro calibration that has been converted to the '02 OEM OS.

* This tune = http://www.holdencrazy.com/EFILive/modifiedTunes.php it's about 11 or 12 down the list.

Once the tune has been flashed, follow the COS tutorial to apply COS5.

After COS5 has been applied, utilize the spreadsheet (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4821) found in the first post of this thread to get your IFR table sorted.

A0003: Disable
A0004: 1
A0005: 1
A0007: Set all cells = 25% for now
A0009: Set per the COS tutorial
A0010: Set to 0 for now
A0015: Set to 0 for now
A0016: Set to 0 for now

Follow the AutoVE tutorial to a "T" to get the VE table lined out and the car driving to your satisfaction - DO NOT GET INTO THE SPRAY WHILE YOU ARE DOING THIS!!!

Once you're happy with the results of the AutoVE effort, adjust your tune for normal non-spray operation (i.e. MAF or SD, OL or CL, etc...)

When all of this is finished, you should be in good shape to start poking around the Axxxx parameters to tune for your spray.

I've also noticed you have a light weight flywheel - this will likely give you idle transition issues. You can fix this by adjusting the Throttle cracker and follower decay rates. Make small changes to extend the decay times.

[TAQuickness]

When you're ready, somewhere in this thread (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=2599) is what you need to set up A0007

[RandyWS6]

so do the 99os to 02os before installing the cos5 ?

[TAQuickness]

Yes. This will get you to a known starting point to base your tune on.

[RandyWS6]

On the auto VE tune I'm using now,the only changes from my 2000 is i used a 02 Z06 main VE table. The rest of the changes was the IFR . ,The big problem is that my 2000 tune, main VE does not match my IFR. So when i corrected my IFR my VE table is way off. So i haft to start over, This will be hard because my motor is not near stock.

[TAQuickness]

It's not that bad. In my power train, only the transmission and water pump are stock ;)

If you start from scratch and follow the tutorials, you should be in good shape pretty quick.

[WHYTRYZ06]

Im new at this, but when i changed over to the 2002os the engine run fine, but my IFR was way off for the COS5 autoVE,so i had to recalibrate it and now the IFR is right, but way lean, so i had to raise the VE table to compensate for it, Could the COS5 have any thing to do with this. what should should i set the parameters:A0007, A0009, A0010, A0015, A0016,To keep them neutral. or cause no interference. In my 2000 tune , i used the IFR to add fuel to my car. I know this was not right but i didnt know any outher way of doing it at the time ,But A.J. (whytryz06) has been helping me learn the right way to tune over the phone. The engine is running and been doing autoVE logs. The bucking has stopped sense I raise the B4205 to 284F. Thanks joecar.

Randy i thought u raised b4205, to 284*.... If i recall its one if the tables i told u to modify.... that was the culprit.....

call me if u need help....

[WHYTRYZ06]

i had the same issues w/ autove as well, but i eventually got the bens close to 1.00 and now im in semi-openloop mode... now the car runs like a champ...

I helped randy as best as i could, im no expert but i know the basics and did what the tutorial told me, but did not setup my ol fueling table the way it told me to... since i idle at 75-80kpa

i owe most of what i know to joecar... he helped me out the same way im helping out randy...

like they say 5 heads are better than 2, im glad someone caught the b4205 culprit

[WHYTRYZ06]

now start logging randy... need any help call me

[RandyWS6]

I guess i misted that one (B4205), the bucking has gone completely, I've done some loggeing today and hope to do some more tomarrow,I took my vacation at work so ill have a lot of time to log this week. Did you get the log i sent you (WHYTRYZ06) to see if its looking better?

[RandyWS6]

I appreciate all the help all of you have given me, especially you WHYTRYZ06 , you've spent a lot of time on the phone helping me.And every body that has posted on here too:gossip:,Thank you. Hope soon ill start the PE tune. The car runs so much better at cruse, cant wait to start WOT runs. :rockon:

[WHYTRYZ06]

I havent seen the log yet.... i havent check my e-mail

[joecar]

Cool... :cheers: ...I'm glad it's working out.

[RandyWS6]

can you all look at my log file and see if it looks o.k. or do i need so more logging,
Thanks

[TAQuickness]

Looks pretty good. You might try hitting a few more cells above 3k and in the higher KPA range.

[RandyWS6]

O.k.

[RandyWS6]

When i turn my key on but not started the kpa is at 97, So hitting 100kpa will be hard to do here in the mountains of Ky high altitude ,But i will try to work on the higher rpm's & kpa tomorrow.

[WHYTRYZ06]

looking good randy

[RandyWS6]

This is what i logged today, One thing i am seeing is when i first start logging for about 5 min. and hit a lot of cell ,they all start out at around 1.07 but after logging for about 30 to 45min. they drop to around .98 to 101 .Is this normal , even after i copy and past they seem to start at 1.07 and work there way back down but it take some time to do this. I logged 4 times and they keep doing the same thing. Here is my VEtune files before i started to day and after, i got done with the 4 VE logs files copied with labels and past multiply with labels, the .0001 is before logging and 0002 is after .Ill haft to post the last log file.

[RandyWS6]

This is the last log file thats in the car now.

[WHYTRYZ06]

your done, set the commanded fuel open loop tabel to 14.63 and the the fuel trims work...

[RandyWS6]

I logged one more time after posting, Now this is what happening, Strange!!!!
The first one the Main VE table started out around 1.07 and averaged out around 1.01 to .98
The top pic is after copy & past ,but after copy & past, it made the second pic go rich

one goes good them after pasting it goes rich ,back and forth, can not get it to do the same two logs twice in a row

On the last log ( second pic.) it started out rich .90s and leveled out some what fair.

This pic here is the one you say I'm ready ,looks grate

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/RandyWS6/log15.jpg
#14 log is loaded in 0002 tune
#16 log is loaded in 0003 tune
This pic here is the last one i done ,nothing change in the tune but it went rich for some reason ,But i can install ether one .

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/RandyWS6/log16.jpg

[TAQuickness]

I'm not able to view your logs right now, but I would speculate changes in the ambient temps are providing a bit of the tail chasing you are seeing. This is where the IAT VE scalar comes into play.

[TAQuickness]

On your other question, yes, it's normal to see your average values change as you collect more data for each cell. Typically the extreme high and low values you see are due to transient conditions.

While you are logging your data, it's very important that you control your right foot to avoid causing excessive transients.

[RandyWS6]

Well i believe Ive got it all done ,can you look at my log and see what you think, The only thing I'm have trouble with now is I'm having a miss or stumble in the upper rpm range around 6400 to 6600 rpms. I have a wot run at (frame 8439)

[joecar]

A0011 and A0012 are out of range... set them to 511.

WOT is good. :cheers:

PT is not as close... STFT's average about -9% during PT, but that's ok, you're letting the STFT's do the trimming. :cheers:

Good job. :cheers:

[joecar]

You may also want to log the following:
- DYNAIR (gives an idea of airflow rate),
- DYNCYLAIR_DMA (used to index into HO/LO spark tables),

[RandyWS6]

do you meen A0012 & A0013 ,the A0011 is valet mode or two step it wont let me put numbers in there

[RandyWS6]

I dont have the pin56 installed yet for the valet mode

[WHYTRYZ06]

now ur tuning randy...

[RandyWS6]

I just need to fine out what causeing the stubble in wot. :help2:
herea pic of my massair delete :cheers:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/RandyWS6/04-05-08_1539.jpg

[WHYTRYZ06]

I cant help with that... sorry randy..BTW looks good

[joecar]

do you meen A0012 & A0013 ,the A0011 is valet mode or two step it wont let me put numbers in there


I dont have the pin56 installed yet for the valet modeEven if you don't have it wired, go and set in-range values for those parameters (all parameters).

[joecar]

I can't see what would cause the stumble at high rpm (see pic taken from your log).

You may want to check your spark plug wires.

[RandyWS6]

How do i know whats inrange and not ? Is there some thing to go by :nixweiss:. Sorry for sounding stupid :anitoof:,but i just dont know. Were to look for the out of range :book:

[joecar]

For those 2 parameters, simply enter 511 for each.

[RandyWS6]

Thanks ,joecar

[dfe1]

This may or may not be relevant, but why is MAP only 93 kPa at WOT. I don't think your altitude is high enough to cause MAP to be that low.

[RandyWS6]

If you are looking at the pic that joecar has there its not at max wot, look at my log file in post 35 and youll see it up to 97kpa. that's about max here. I live at the highest point in Ky. I can hit a 100kpa but i haft to go 25 miles down the country to see it, lol