Lean Cruise ... I did search, but ...

[superls1]

I was unclear of whether or not it required a Custom OS or the code was simply enabled for all 2001+ calibrations. I tried a couple of mods today, but did not record/notice any differences.

Enable = 55
Disable = 50
Modified the factor table (tried different values in the "cruise" cells).

Does it work in both OL and CL? If it does work in CL, does it simply override + LTFT's or does it actually command a different AFR? What kind of factor are you using to achieve say 15.5:1. I tried various vaules, but with my WB did not notice any difference.

[Dirk Diggler]

Lean cruis does not work on US vehicles and isnt enabled in any Custom OS. The only vehicles that have LC enabled are the Holdens

[superls1]

Thanks. In this thread, http://www.efilive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1271, Ross made it sound like a soon to be released version would allow access on US vehicles. That was in February. I thought some people were claiming to have enabled it on US cars.

[GMPX]

SuperLS1, you are correct, I did say we would bypass the Lean Cruise ban on US vehicles, but, we decided not to.
You can use it on the GTO, that is probably where you have seen people saying they are running it.

Here's the problem. We have discussed this before and kinda got blasted for it, but GM put a specific check in the Lean Cruise routine to check the car is a Holden (or GTO), bypassing this is just a two line code change, but we just didn't know what legal problems this may cause US in the future and didn't want to spend thousands on a lawyer finding out.
Our new O.S's which you guys should be able to download next week will allow you to run Lean Cruise, but not using the Lean Cruise routines :shock: so therefore we never bypassed GM's platform check.

Cheers,
Ross

[joecar]

Why did GM disable lean cruise on US models...?

[SinisterSS]

Lean cruise produces higher levels of NOx; so from an emissions standpoint, LC is illegal in the USA.

[GMPX]

FYI, Holden have had it calibrated out for about a year now too.

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

so are we going to have to worry about cats? and also will it be safe to use on lets say a 400 mile trip

[mistermike]

...will allow you to run Lean Cruise, but not using the Lean Cruise routines :shock: so therefore we never bypassed GM's platform check.

Cheers,
Ross
Musta been a lawyer in a former life. :mrgreen:
So aparently the GTO, due to its Aussie roots is (purely hypothetically) capable of LC. What target AFR should I not be using when I don't have LC enabled? Or maybe it wouldn't be such a hot idea with my upcoming mods. :roll: I've noticed when I've commanded a leaner than stoich AFR in the control panel, the NBO2's collapse to the low side, but it's sure nice to see that inst. MPG climb. Will this set a code after a time?

[Tydriver]

Has anyone ever determined what the MPG savings are by running Lean Cruise ??

Is it worth messing around with ?? From what I understand it only works when certain enabling factors are in place (namely cruise control enabled, steady state MPH etc. hence the name) So I cant see it beneficial for around town driving but I have been known to take a road trip or two and would be definitely interested in seeing what MPG gains are typical by enabling it...

[Tydriver]

I had another thought after I posted my above question...


I hear the liability issue you guys refer too, aint it the USA's way anymore :-(.. But isnt that sort of a mute issue since this is indeed tuning software ? I mean for all intents and purposes.. I can mistune my ride so it runs crappy and emissions go through the roof anyhow with the software.... Nobody seems to be worried about the liability there...(Not throwing stones, I just find it sort of ironic this post)...


Also, if Lean Cruise was enabled, I'd be getting more MPG and in theory using less fuel, which in turn would obviously offset the harmful emissions (as well as put as smile on my face and more importantly, my WALLET)..

I never understood stoopid cali lawmakers when I was out there.. I found this ironic as well, they required so called 'OXYGENATED FUELS' which are great in theory, but you get less MPG from the same gallon of gas as everywhere else in the country.. So not only is the fuel more expensive, but its less efficient and you have to burn more to get there !!! Nice choice guys !! Stoopid attnys :roll:

[joecar]

...And the Cal. lawmakers have made 91 octane the max, while the rest of the USA have 93.

[GMPX]

Don't blame me, I'm in Australia!!.

It's more along the lines of probably CARB TOLD GM they want a safe guard against any vehicle in the US running in lean cruise. There is a bunch of legal docs on the web on the subject if you want a good read before bed one night.
We just decided we'd rather not take on the might of the EPA, CARB or GM in a legal battle......unless you guys want to chip in some $$.

I understand your point though, kinda like it's legal for shops to sell bongs out here, but it's illegal to have dope!, what are they for, decoration?

As for MPG gains, yes, there is indeed some, however, I found even on my small 224ish cam it did not like running more than 15.7 - 16:1 AFR, beyond that it lost power and surged. I never measured the factory commanded AFR's when it was stock and in L.C mode.

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

As for MPG gains, yes, there is indeed some, however, I found even on my small 224ish cam it did not like running more than 15.7 - 16:1 AFR, beyond that it lost power and surged. I never measured the factory commanded AFR's when it was stock and in L.C mode.

Cheers,
Ross


Ross how much of a improvement did you get and also how will it affect cats here in the us? I was also curious are there going to be certain things that will have to be meet to trigger the new table? I mean such as TP%, speed, etc?

[Tydriver]

Don't blame me, I'm in Australia!!.

I am not blaming anyone.. Certainly not you guys.. I understand 110% where you are coming from.... I just wish the stoopid tree huggers would STFU once and a while.. You should see the legislation they are trying to pass here now...

They are trying to get legislation that if your vehicle 'appears to be modified for drag racing' they can impound and sell it..

WTF ?

Just getting tired of all my alleged 'rights' being impeded by all the special interest groups that seem to think they know whats best for me..

No harm intended at you guys, you guys have been great for everything I have ever needed... I'm just getting fed up with all the BS thats being forced on us and our hobby, your reasoning was just another example of how people have to consult attorneys before offering something and its frustrating to me, the end consumer/enthusiast..

[87gmc]

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/576.asp

[Tydriver]

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/576.asp

Yep... Thats the one...

:twisted: x 100,000,000

[87gmc]

Hey ross what is the different on the custom os open loop afr versus EQ ratio when in open loop on stock bins?

I was playing with afr on the custom os seems pertty much the same to me

[GMPX]

Hey ross what is the different on the custom os open loop afr versus EQ ratio when in open loop on stock bins?

I was playing with afr on the custom os seems pertty much the same to me

GM's is Coolant Temp vs MAP, ours is RPM vs MAP, big difference.
Only the Version 3 custom O.S's have the table this way.

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

Hey ross what is the different on the custom os open loop afr versus EQ ratio when in open loop on stock bins?

I was playing with afr on the custom os seems pertty much the same to me

GM's is Coolant Temp vs MAP, ours is RPM vs MAP, big difference.
Only the Version 3 custom O.S's have the table this way.

Cheers,
Ross

IC yea im going to get my bung welded up this weekend and see about tuning it with open loop. Do you think runing it open loop on a highway trip of 300 miles will hurt anything if its been tuned with a WB? From point A to point B it changes from about 5000 above sea level to about 500 where im going. Also you wouldnt have a basic table that I can start with to fine tune do you.

Thanks

[GMPX]

If running a V3 O.S and using the MAP vs RPM AFR table, anytime you commnand 14.63 you will go into closed loop. If you command 15.5:1 or 13.2:1 then it will switch to open loop.
Why that table is a major plus is that you can do that at any MAP or RPM point.

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

If running a V3 O.S and using the MAP vs RPM AFR table, anytime you commnand 14.63 you will go into closed loop. If you command 15.5:1 or 13.2:1 then it will switch to open loop.
Why that table is a major plus is that you can do that at any MAP or RPM point.

Cheers,
Ross

Got it ross i thought it stayed in open loop all the time. Man you guys have nothing good news all the time.

So as long as i command 14.63 it will stay in close loop anything from that will cause close loop? I tried it with 14.7 and never went closed.

I agree with the table being a major plus on the table just trying to find the sweet spots where i can increase the afr without hurting the engine.

[GMPX]

So as long as i command 14.63 it will stay in close loop anything from that will cause close loop? I tried it with 14.7 and never went closed.

The fueling code in the PCM has been modified more than just a new table. You can actually make the PCM use the STFT's in Open Loop {B4206} when the O2 sensors become ready in the factory code, problem is it seems to correct even at 13.0:1 as an example.
Our modded O.S will ONLY use STFT's when the active cell in the RPM vs MAP table = 14.63, that is the only time.
Once you try it and see it in action it will all make sense.

Cheers,
Ross

[mistermike]

...when the O2 sensors become ready in the factory code, problem is it seems to correct even at 13.0:1 as an example.
Our modded O.S will ONLY use STFT's when the active cell in the RPM vs MAP table = 14.63, that is the only time.
Once you try it and see it in action it will all make sense.

Cheers,
Ross

I noticed that pre O/S v3 as well. The only way I could get it to go all the way in to open loop was to command an AFR in the scan tool control panel. This setup not only fixes that gift from GM but adds wonderful flexibility. 5 Stars!

[kompressor]

You can decrease the BSFC of the engine during steady-state cruise conditions in other ways however... Once your fueling is dialed in on both IFR and VE sides, increase the ignition timing in the low areas of airflow vs. RPM your engine is in during S.S.C.C. until you see the MAP values decrease while also watching for corrosponding TP decreases as well in those areas. This simple sensor data is a great indicator of engine efficiency/cylinder pressure during cruise.

Sneak up on this by small, incremental changes until you see the TP positions and MAP values start to head the other way, which indicates the engine would be laboring from too much timing in those areas of the ignition matrix. Once you find the sweet spot of your engine combination, you'll be pleasantly surprised on what your MPG will increase to. 30+ MPG is quite common for many HP engine combinations, providing the mechanical portion of your work is sound. HTH's :)

[BowlingSS]

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/05/576.asp
I hope the drag cops do not come to GA.

Bill

[dfe1]

They probably won't. The whole California situation is difficult to understand unless you live there (or have in the past). Although much of California is politically conservative, the urban areas are ultra-liberal-- think Massachusetts West. This is tax, regulate and spend legislation at its finest. The Air Resources Board has used California's air quality problems to build its power base to the point that they have become extremely intrusive. As long as the people of California go along with the program, it's not likely to change. Fortunately, people in most other states have a different mind set.

[joecar]

Yes, the CARB is a "dictatorship by committee";
SEMA and its members are trying to push back, but how can you push back on something that is using the law against you without regard for your rights.

[BowlingSS]

They probably won't. The whole California situation is difficult to understand unless you live there (or have in the past). Although much of California is politically conservative, the urban areas are ultra-liberal-- think Massachusetts West. This is tax, regulate and spend legislation at its finest. The Air Resources Board has used California's air quality problems to build its power base to the point that they have become extremely intrusive. As long as the people of California go along with the program, it's not likely to change. Fortunately, people in most other states have a different mind set.

I am glad that other states have a different mind set.
I know that GA still has counties that do not even check emisions.
Bill

[joecar]

In Cal. it's illegal to install long tube headers (they move the position of the cat...)... :(

And it's illegal to use aftermarket hi-flow small-profile cats (...that turn out to be more efficient than OEM cats at catalysing hydrocarbons...)... :(

Stuff like this gets inspected when you get a smog test (...it doesn't matter to them that you car is producing less emissions than 99% of Cal. cars, they will fail you based on visual inspection...)... :(

[Tordne]

So, when are you moving back to Australia?

[joecar]

Well, we're here in So.Cal. so my wife can be close to her family, but she too is serioisly considering moving back (...meaning I do what I'm told...).

[GMPX]

Bring lots of petrol with you, soon down here it'll be cheaper to run the car on beer.

Cheers,
Ross

[87gmc]

Bring lots of petrol with you, soon down here it'll be cheaper to run the car on beer.

Cheers,
Ross

How much is it a gallon over there right now

[GMPX]

Bring lots of petrol with you, soon down here it'll be cheaper to run the car on beer.

Cheers,
Ross

How much is it a gallon over there right now

Sorry mate, but a gallon is a term my grandparents used :wink: ,oops wrong thread, better watch it or we'll have SinisterSS on my case again.
Anyway, it's about $1.20 per Liter for 91Oct and upto $1.33 for 98 Octane.

I think 1 gallon is about 3.5 Liters, our exchange rate is about $0.70, so at a guess that is about $6.20 per gallon :cry:
Try doing the conversion from the UK :shock:

Cheers,
Ross

[TAQuickness]

Yikes! It's $2.93 a gallon here now. That breaks down to 1 us gallon = 3.785 liters = $0.774/liter

[joecar]

Near my house 91 is US$2.90/gal.
Near my work 91 is US$3.10/gal.

This stuff used to be cheap (when I was 5 it was about AU$0.40/gal or less... but that was a long time ago...).

Edit: Yes, Aust. used to have gallons and miles, a long time ago...

Do you use synthetic blinker fluid...? No...? You should.

[Tydriver]

Wont be long and race gas WONT be that much more than 91-93 Octane..

Anyone ever do any tuning for E85 ??

I'm seriously thinking about setting up my Typhoon to run on it.. It burns alot cooler than normal fuels and at 105octane its hard to look past when its selling for $1.7x a gallon..

Dunno what tuning would be like tho..

[TAQuickness]

Do you use synthetic blinker fluid...? No...? You should.

Not yet... I hear it reduces friction big time!

Right now I'm saving up for some vinyl stickers :!:

[GMPX]

Anyone ever do any tuning for E85 ??

PCM (03+) already has the code bulit in to cope with a mix of E85 and std UL, you would just need the sensor so it knows the blend amount.

Cheers,
Ross

[joecar]

Right now I'm saving up for some vinyl stickers :!:
I can't figure out if they're good for 5MPH or 5HP...? :)

[TAQuickness]

depends on which ones you get. the really bigs ones are good for 12 hp. I know cuz my buddy has one

[Tordne]

You should also be looking to get some of those under car florescent blue/red lights. They go real nice with the stickers, and have to be good for a few kW also :D

[Tydriver]

Anyone ever do any tuning for E85 ??

PCM (03+) already has the code bulit in to cope with a mix of E85 and std UL, you would just need the sensor so it knows the blend amount.

Cheers,
Ross

Is this all '03 PCMs? Because very few of the Silverados are actually E85 compliant.. In fact they are only sold through "E85 aware" dealerships and they have a different VIN# coding sequence.

I'm gonna have to weigh all the associated costs before I make the decision, so far an alcohol compliant fuel pump appears to be the biggest expense.. (I'm already running aftermarket lines and injectors)..

If gas prices get to the pricing that they are speculated to hit, it wouldnt take long to recover the cost of the conversion if I build with all the parts initially.

[TAQuickness]

You should also be looking to get some of those under car florescent blue/red lights. They go real nice with the stickers, and have to be good for a few kW also :D

This guy (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367855) won't have squat on me when I'm done!

[Tordne]

You should also be looking to get some of those under car florescent blue/red lights. They go real nice with the stickers, and have to be good for a few kW also :D

This guy (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367855) won't have squat on me when I'm done!

We have a lot of Nissan 200SX's around here that look like that. The only question is WHY would you do that:?

[bink]

You should also be looking to get some of those under car florescent blue/red lights. They go real nice with the stickers, and have to be good for a few kW also :D

This guy (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367855) won't have squat on me when I'm done!

It looks like someone already squatted on that guy's car!!

Cheers,
joel

[joecar]

It's real sad how a few people will wreck their car...

I wonder if it runs on rice, and has one of those pretend thingy's that makes a pretend 70 psi blow off valve sound when he lets off the throttle...
:lol: :lol: :lol: