Which wideband are you using w/EFI Live?

[TFZ_Z06]

I've got flashscan2, about to add a wideband in the mix. Which wideband are you guys using?

[Dopey]

Im using a PLX with a circuit to interface with V2 (TTL to RS-232)

[JezzaB]

Im using a PLX with a circuit to interface with V2 (TTL to RS-232)

Same here

[neil]

I'M using PLX

[BlackGMC]

AEM and it sux!

[TAQuickness]

dual LC-1's

[joecar]

Lc-1

[thunder550]

Just hooked up my LC-1 to the serial input yesterday and works like a charm :)

[swingtan]

I'm using a TechEdge 2J1 unit.

I did try a PLX and found that the analogue signal suffered a bit from earth off set errors, but using the serial interface fixes that. the Tech edge on the other hand has an earth reference in-put that adjust the analogue signal for any earth off set. Logging both the analogue and serial data shows them to be equal.

Simon.

[VTC_WS6]

<-- LC1 here

[VortechC5]

LM-1 here.

[bink]

FJO dual. But, only single hooked up - waiting on new motor install for dual use.

[ChipsByAl]

LM1 with the serial connection, goodbye ground plane issues!
Al

[Garry]

single LC-1 ...

[SSpdDmon]

Lm1 Ftw :D

[Wolfie]

PLX w/ RS232 converter

[dfe1]

LM1, soon to be LC1 so I can get rid of the box.

[Chevy366]

LC-1 , hope to get the JAW I built to work as well .
Nice to be able to just plug in a wire and get digital AFR readings .

[TFZ_Z06]

Hey guys, all these link up w/EFI Live's datalogger right?

[joecar]

Hey guys, all these link up w/EFI Live's datalogger right?Hi TFZ,

Yes, they do...

But the EFILive logging software (the scantool) allows you to create a calculated pid for any wideband that you use... you simply have to know what the wideband's analog voltage:afr transfer function looks like... and the software can handle linear and non-linear transfer functions!

If you have a FlashScan V2, pretty soon you will be able to log wideband AFR in serial digital form (i.e. RS-232), so you won't have to worry about analog voltage:afr transfer functions.

Cheers,
Joe
:cheers:

[Aint Skeered]

Could someone please help me with some tips from start to finish on the LM1? I know there are differences in the Lm1 and Lc1 but the only answer I ever get is it should be simular. PM me some instructions or post here, either way.

I have to get a serial to usp or a serial to serial connecter, which is best? I am not able to hook my lm1 to my laptop with out it and not sure what the process is to hook to efi but I have had my lm1 for several months with out being able to do auto ve.

[dfe1]

I've been using an LM1 with a V1 cable, so I never got into the voltage set-up adjustments that appear to necessary with V2. Those considerations aside, the biggest issue I had to deal with was synchronizing the settings between the LM1 and EFILive. Apparently, there are voltage differences from one LM1 to another, so whenever I install an EFILive update, I have to go into the SAE_Generic file (in the Configuration folder) and change the LM-1 parameter as follows.

# Innovate LM-1 WBO2
# ========================
*CLC-00-928
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .1 "({EXT.AD1}*1.9936)+9.9832"
*CLC-00-929
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LM11.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"
*CLC-00-930
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .1 "({EXT.AD1}*1.9936)+9.9832"
*CLC-00-931
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LM12.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"

You also have to go into the Innovate software and set-up the LM-1 so the voltages are compatible. If you're using a V2, I think your best bet is to use serial input. There's a serial out port on the LM-1 and a serial in connection on the V2. You need a null modem gender bender to connect the two cables, but everything plugs in. Hope this helps.

[joecar]

Ain't Skeered,

That means you'll have to run the V2 BBL beta firmware... if you do do do that [I'm an engineer], you have to read the Readme_First.pdf file in the BBL beta zip package (read it several times until it make sense... then your BBL update will go good).

[Aint Skeered]

Ok why would i need to do bbl since the lm1 has been being used since before bbl was available? just wondering because that adds more stress to me to figure that out all at once.

[joecar]

...
If you're using a V2, I think your best bet is to use serial input. There's a serial out port on the LM-1 and a serial in connection on the V2. You need a null modem gender bender to connect the two cables, but everything plugs in. Hope this helps.If you do that (what dfe1 said) you have to run the V2 BBL beta code because that introduces wideband serial input.

Otherwise you have to do analog wideband...

You probably want to try analog wideband input and see how it goes.

[Aint Skeered]

ok , got you . I may try the bbl , atleast read about it and see if I can figure it out.

[joecar]

Yeah, have a read thru the .pdf's that come in the zip file, and if it seems too much work just stick with analog wideband for now...

If you need any help with it, dfe1 and me will point you the right way [is that ok with you dfe1 since you got experience on LM-1's...?] :cheers:

It's not that hard.

You should probably program your LM-1 for 0V=10AFR and 5V=20AFR, and then the AFR calc pid will be ({EXT.AD1}*2.00)+10.00

[dfe1]

Joecar- that's fine with me. It's been a while, so I'll have to verify a few things, but I believe that info in the last line of your post above is correct. Analog wide band was pretty much a no-brainer once the voltage values were matched between the LM-1 and V1. Since I never got into the voltage deal with the V2, I can't comment-- can you, Joe? I don't think it's that big a deal, and I think that's the only area that may cause Aint Skeered to go looking for more anti-stress pills.

Aint Skeered-- Joe and the other regulars on this forum are unbelievably knowledgeable and helpful. Don't get yourself too stressed-- there is plenty of help available from the EFILive community.

[joecar]

...
# Innovate LM-1 WBO2
# ========================
*CLC-00-928
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD1}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .1 "({EXT.AD1}*1.9936)+9.9832"
*CLC-00-929
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LM11.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"
*CLC-00-930
V 0.0 5.0 .1 "{EXT.AD2}"
AFR 10.0 20.0 .1 "({EXT.AD1}*1.9936)+9.9832"
*CLC-00-931
factor 0.0 2.0 .1 "{CALC.AFR_LM12.AFR}/{GM.AFR}"
...dfe1 (Dan, right...? my brains are too full of junk...),

I can't read/write English :D but I can spot a numerical typo...:D

[joecar]

Analog wide band was pretty much a no-brainer once the voltage values were matched between the LM-1 and V1. Since I never got into the voltage deal with the V2, I can't comment-- can you, Joe? I don't think it's that big a deal, and I think Aint Skeered is getting himself excessively stressed without reason.

Aint Skeered-- Joe and the other regulars on this forum are unbelievably knowledgeable and helpful. Don't get yourself too stressed-- there is plenty of help available from the EFILive community.Yes, V2 has a calibration mode where you connect 1 and 2 AA batteries to calibrate the analog inputs...

Ain't Skeered, just pm when you're ready to do it... you will need a DMM/voltmeter (a cheap one will do).

I don't know what color the LM-1 wires or how you're supposed to connect it all up, but what you need is the analog signal and signal return to be connected to all 4 AD ports of V2 (all 4 can be calibrated at once).

[joecar]

V2 analog input calibration procedure: showthread.php?t=4593 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=4593)

If you need to, you can reprogram your LM-1 voltage:AFR points and create a new calc pid for it in calc_pids.txt [preferrable, untouched on software update] or in sae_generic.txt [you have to save a spare copy of this each time you update the software].

[dfe1]

dfe1 (Dan, right...? my brains are too full of junk...),

I can't read/write English :D but I can spot a numerical typo...:D
No, it's Dave, but I've been called worse. Good eyes on the typo. That was a cut and paste from the SAE_Generic file I'm currently using. It will be interesting to see if that's the reason the LM-1 readings have been a bit flaky recently. I have to copy and paste that section every time there's an update, so I don't know how long it's been like that. Thanks for catching it.

[joecar]

Dave, ok thanks, I do apologize, I should have remembered... :doh:

Cheers,
Joe
:cheers:

[Aint Skeered]

I am not really to stressed but it is all greek to me when it comes to changing files and such. Joe has helped me many times already and he knows my computer skills are limited. The tuning part is the easy part to me. ITs the work in the lap top that gets me.

Thanks guys , I am on the boat untill next tuesday( just got on today and work 7 and 7) I do have my lap top though so I will start reading.

[5.7ute]

Just to add to the topic.
If you are using the analog inputs I have noticed that the ground offset voltage is a moving target. To solve this problem I made a change in the lm-1 programmer software to the output voltage to match the lc-1 tutorial. Then set the other channel to a flatline of 2.5 volts.
I then changed the LC-1 pid in the programme files/efilive/V7/user configuration/sae generic txt file to (({EXT.AD1}-({EXT.AD2}-2.5)*3)+7.35 .
The only problem with this method is if you update efilive you will lose the file so it would be better to make it as a calc pid.

[joecar]

Mick,

That's a very clever way of dealing with voltage offsets... cool... :cheers:

[BlackGMC]

I am looking at replacing my AEM Wideband because the gauge itself does not match the scanner and it just pisses me off.... The voltages are correct will logging however, that match the AFR I am logging according to the AEM instructions AFR tables, it is just the freaking gauge is consistantly .5 AFR off....

I am still on V1 has anyone had problems with the PLX wideband?

[5.7ute]

Mick,

That's a very clever way of dealing with voltage offsets... cool... :cheers:

Cheers Joe. As you know the old KISS principle works no matter how complicated the system. Its a pity it took me over a year before the discrepancies started to piss me off enough to do something about it.:doh2:
BlackGMC. Is the earth for the guage common to the analog output or seperate. If you are running the earth to a seperate ground point this may be the issue.

[RetroAus]

Black GMC ..like 5.7ute said.
Power and earth supply for W/B unit should be same as vehicle .
I use lighter socket or an adapter which has alligator clips and lighter socket to connect straight to battery(if i find the lighter socket is unreliable)
Correlation between your wideband output and Flashscan PID will show you if you have a bad earth/power.

I have been using Motec PLM for last 3 years..never missed a beat. Only problem is we had to write custom PID.

Cheers
Kyle

[TFZ_Z06]

What type of connector is used to connect a device to flashscan ?

[BlackGMC]

I have my ground connected to a bare spot under the dash and I have also ran a wire from there to the battery... I have also connected a wire from that central point to the ground spot on the cable. I am getting my power from the fuse box..

[TFZ_Z06]

Just to add to the topic.
If you are using the analog inputs I have noticed that the ground offset voltage is a moving target. To solve this problem I made a change in the lm-1 programmer software to the output voltage to match the lc-1 tutorial. Then set the other channel to a flatline of 2.5 volts.
I then changed the LC-1 pid in the programme files/efilive/V7/user configuration/sae generic txt file to (({EXT.AD1}-({EXT.AD2}-2.5)*3)+7.35 .
The only problem with this method is if you update efilive you will lose the file so it would be better to make it as a calc pid.

How has the voltage offset calc been working out? I'm installing my LC1 in the next day. So, by what you've done no matter where the variance, you subtract off the offset in AD2.

Wonder what causes the offset though. I plan to wire ground to the chassis. I hope this works.

[5.7ute]

I am not sure where the variance comes from. I use the cig lighter plug for power so that could cause the issue.
As for the calc it has been working real good. It has brought the logged value much closer to the display & has had an added effect of bringing bens into line much faster.
FWIW the variance in my car is around 0.02 of a volt & follows no set pattern.

[TFZ_Z06]

Look at this log please and see if this looks correct. Just finished the install for LC1.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/lc1_test_log.efi

I think I should be using WideBand AFR2 - LC1? I was using AFR1, which I guess was using AD1? Off to log again...
heres one logging both.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/lc1_test_log2.efi

wot at 9.95. WTF.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/qkwot.efi

[5.7ute]

I cant look here as I dont have V5 installed yet.(Dial up) Can you post a screenshot of the chart dash with both analog inputs.

[TFZ_Z06]

Analog1 is throwing me off. I need to set both AFR for all voltages to 1.0 or something I can recognize.

IDLE:
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/log1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/log2.jpg

WOT: Its 97F outside, but this wideband has the be WAY OFF because I'm getting a reading of 9.95:1 AND the car is running really well so it just can't be right.

This is filtered for greater than 80% TP. 9.95:1 :shock::shock:
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/wot.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/data.jpg

[TFZ_Z06]

appreciate any comments. Before I go out and lean on the engine, I need to check this out.

[joecar]

You may want to set your LC-1 to do 1/3 or 1/6 smoothing (this is programmable via the LM Programmer software)

[TFZ_Z06]

You may want to set your LC-1 to do 1/3 or 1/6 smoothing (this is programmable via the LM Programmer software)



Just so I'm clear, for Analog2:

1v = 10AFR
2v = 20AFR

Analog1:

0.8833 = 10AFR
4.21667 = 20AFR

[joecar]

Are you using:
-> LC-1 pids for analog 1
-> LM-1 pids for analog 2

To smooth out the wideband AFR signal, go into the LM Programmer software, and on the Analog 1 and Analog 2 tabs set the smoothing to 1/3, 1/6 or 1/12.

This will smooth out your WB signal (it seems to be following the B2S1 NBO2 blow-by-blow).

[5.7ute]

Follow page 8 & 9 in the lc1 tutorial in the tune tool. That will get it in line with the supplied pid.

[TFZ_Z06]

Wideband problem solved. Removed WB and did another free air recal.
This did the trick. Now A/F are where they are supposed to be.

A few notes:

1. When LmWorks is in logging mode or gauge displayed and key on, it will show percent warmed up for sensor. The startup screen is where you want to be
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/logworks1.jpg

2. When doing a free air recalibration, the gauges will show the device is recalibrating for free air. Same screen selection as above.

3. I'm am not sure, but I wonder if you must program the a/f vs volts using LmProgrammer BEFORE you do a free air recal. This is really the only thing I did different from when I installed. After calling Innovate Motorsports, a tech stated this was not necessary. I would do it anyway.

4. For those who don't know. When you set the v vs a/f in the programmer, its a linear relation, so y = mx + b.

m = (a/f2-a/f1)/(v2-v1) = 3.008
x = any voltage v.
b = y intercept, at 0v, Innovate gives that a/f is 7.35v, so b = 7.35v

I have no idea why EFI just doesn't use 0=7.35 and 5=22.39. Instead EFI Lives docs recommend 0.8833 = 10 a/f and 4.21667= 20 a/f. I'm guessing FlashScan doesn't report a full 5v due to bit storage. Note, the slope of the line in EFI Live is the same.

5. When calibrating your wideband, note the amount of free air is
roughly 20.9% by definition. In my case, my wb calibrated to 20.8%
Make sure that what your wideband indicates makes at least some common sense.
Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen

[joecar]

I have no idea why EFI just doesn't use 0=7.35 and 5=22.39.
You can make your own calc pid using those.

I use 0V=11 and 5V=16 giving me the equation afr = v + 11 for which I made a calc pid in calc_pids.txt.

[TFZ_Z06]

You can make your own calc pid using those.

I use 0V=11 and 5V=16 giving me the equation afr = v + 11 for which I made a calc pid in calc_pids.txt.

When logging via BBL, I would like to add in the LC1. I am seeing the correct
voltages, but the AFR = 25 all the time. How do I correct this?

[joecar]

Are you doing serial AFR logging with V2 BBL or are you logging analof AFR with V2 BBL...?

In the scantool are you selecting the LC-1 AFR/BEN calc pids...?

Post a screenshot.

[TFZ_Z06]

Are you doing serial AFR logging with V2 BBL or are you logging analof AFR with V2 BBL...?

In the scantool are you selecting the LC-1 AFR/BEN calc pids...?

Post a screenshot.

ANALOG V2 BBL. I didn't know we could do serial...gotta check that out.

This is a screenshot of a BBL I did. Note, that when I'm directly connected to the laptop, the data is correct. It must be something I messed up in options.ini?
Also, forgot to mention, when I add the LC1 in the PID list, no problem getting data. Is the BBL that I'm interested in. Trying to set up total BBL for drag passes through the day and only turn on the laptop for tuning/log review.


http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/bbl.jpg

[ifyalucky]

Hi all i have an ls1 monaro and got efi live doing bit of tuning on it as i have got a cam and a single plan manifold on it and have been told that plx devices wide band is the best what model is every one using and think that is fine to do the job?

Cheers Shaun

[joecar]

TFZ,


You're logging analog AFR, so when you view your log in the scantool, at the PIDs tab select the LC-1 AFR/BEN pids and do File->Save.

The pids WO2AFR1/2 are for digital serial AFR, not for analog AFR...

If you want to log digital serial AFR, see these threads:


V2 serial AFR input (LC-1):
showthread.php?t=8115 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=8115)
showthread.php?t=7532 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=7532)
showthread.php?t=8348 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=8348)


You must enable it in the V2 settings (F4->F1->F1) and enable WBO2 in and select "Innovate", and you have to connect up using a null-modem serial cable (see links above).

[joecar]

Shaun, welcome to the forum...:cheers:

[TFZ_Z06]

TFZ,


You're logging analog AFR, so when you view your log in the scantool, at the PIDs tab select the LC-1 AFR/BEN pids and do File->Save.

The pids WO2AFR1/2 are for digital serial AFR, not for analog AFR...

If you want to log digital serial AFR, see these threads:

You must enable it in the V2 settings (F4->F1->F1) and enable WBO2 in and select "Innovate", and you have to connect up using a null-modem serial cable (see links above).

So all I need to do is create a STEREO<-->RJ12 connection and plug it up. Nice.

[rally1]

Im using two LM1 with the serial connection and they are so so much better than analog!!! no more ground offset yay (just wish the dyno was the same).... would Highly Recommend going serial!!!!

[Aint Skeered]

I am using lm1 but am not able to get the pids now on my v2 to see wideband. I cant record my air fuel with seriel yet.

[TFZ_Z06]

Joe,
Why is the DB9 in the middle? Can't I just soldier up from STEREO to RJ12??
http://forum.efilive.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3333&d=1211350225

[joecar]

The DB9 null-modem adapter is used only if you want to connect the original Innovate LC-1 DB9 cable to the FlashScan V2 serial cable without cutting/splicing.

Yes, if you're making your own cable, you just connect the stereo jack directly to the RJ-12 plug (skip all the DB9's).

(be aware that the LM Programmer/Works software requires the original un-modified Innovate LC-1 DB9 cable...
so don't just cut up your original Innovate LC-1 DB9 cable that came with the LC-1).

[TFZ_Z06]

ok, my stereo to 6 pin RJ worked and I got a valid reading on the FlashScan.
But, when I logged the data, wideband shows 25:1 again in the log.
It was reading free air at 20.7-20.8% while on and showed the proper warm up sequence as expected.

My options.ini must be wrong.
http://home.comcast.net/~booth.p/Options.ini

[rally1]

Have you gone into the settings on your V2 unit and set "wide band" from “none” to “innovate”?

[TFZ_Z06]

Have you gone into the settings on your V2 unit and set "wide band" from “none” to “innovate”?

yes. also put WO2AFR1 in options.ini. gotta get this working before going to the track again.

[Garry]

I used the standard options.ini as included w/ the 8.1 release of EFILive, and it works like a charm ... didn't have to add anything IIRC ...

[TFZ_Z06]

I used the standard options.ini as included w/ the 8.1 release of EFILive, and it works like a charm ... didn't have to add anything IIRC ...

I wonder why:

DISPLAY WO2 = Correct data and
DISPLAY DATA = Incorrect, always 25:1?

[joecar]

Discussion of TFZ_Z06's problem continues here: showthread.php?t=8431 (http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.php?t=8431)

[thunder550]

What other widebands have you guys gotten to work on the V2 serial input? My LC-1's serial connection works intermittently (this is my second unit - first one quit working altogether) and I'm sick of dealing with it. I can't get Logworks, LM programmer, or EFILive to see the serial signal today, but it worked yesterday, but not the day before, etc. I also get "heater circuit open" errors about once every 3-4 startups. If I cycle power it comes back on fine. I hate this thing.

[Aint Skeered]

I was having the same issue with my lm1 and just bought a new sensor yesterday . It works great now, sounds like your sensor is getting bad.

[thunder550]

Did that fix your serial connection problem as well?

[JezzaB]

Got a PLX and TechEdge both working serial flawlessly with the V2. The thing i love about serial is I dont have change any PIDs etc. WBO2AFR is the same on every serial wideband. Love it

[thunder550]

Thanks for the info. I'll look into one of those.



**edit - just bought a PLX unit. Looks to be much easier to install than the Innovate, and since I got the digital gauge with it I can do away with ALL of the analog outputs. I have always had ground offset issues. No more :)

[ls1vt209]

I am using TechEdge 2J1 works fine.

[TFZ_Z06]

What other widebands have you guys gotten to work on the V2 serial input? My LC-1's serial connection works intermittently (this is my second unit - first one quit working altogether) and I'm sick of dealing with it. I can't get Logworks, LM programmer, or EFILive to see the serial signal today, but it worked yesterday, but not the day before, etc. I also get "heater circuit open" errors about once every 3-4 startups. If I cycle power it comes back on fine. I hate this thing.

Just curious how old your LC1 is so I know what I have to look forward to. Mine is about 1 month and so far, so good w/serial connection.

[boyley]

I havent installed it yet but I've purchased the PLX DM-100 + SM-AFR